Rear Suspension Options for 66 Nova

[JohnnyR]

I've been searching for rear suspension options for a 66 Nova a friend of mine is about to start on. I've had to talk him out of the typical 4-link street rod stuff. Is there anyone making 3-link kits? What are my options besides TCI and Heidts?

The car will be set up with an LS1, Wayne Due front, T-56, etc...

This car will probably not be raced, but will see some track time at local track days and driven almost daily.



Any help would be appreciated.

-j

[dhardison]

air ride Technologies AirBar is always an option if your friend is in to bags.

http://www.ridetech.com/productinfo/airbarstang.asp

Dan

[JohnnyR]

Not looking to go the air bag route. Thanks, though.

-j

[novanutcase]

Thanks JohnnyR....Yeah...I guess I'm looking for an out of the box front and rear end. Really looking for something that will smoke a BMW through the corners just to see the look on his face! Wayne Due seems to be the front runner although I've been hearing some good things about Smith Racecraft. Rear end looks like a 12 bolt but what to do about traction? Hmmmmmm.....

[darren@ridetech]

Why don't you want to use air springs?

An air spring can perform just as well as a coil spring. Actually it is much more tunable, especially if you opt for the double adjustable shocks. And if it is the compressor system that turns you away, they can be inflated via a Schrader. But if you are still not interested, the AirBar can be used with coil overs.

[Alan66ss]

I was in your position a little while ago. I did a lot of reading on here and talked to several people before deciding to stay with the leaf springs. Wayne even told me that at this point and for this car - the springs probably were the best. There are several guys on here who think highly of leaf springs. Just do a search.

Alan

[rocketman]

chris alston and total cost involved both offer bolt in 4 link kits.

[JohnnyR]

I agree about the leaf springs. My buddy (novanutcase) however, want's something a little more "trick." I've been a long-time lurker here at pro-touring so I understand that a well tuned leaf set-up is more than adequate for a mostly street-driven car. I'm trying to educate him about pro-touring and just recently showed him this site.

As far as Chassis Works and some of the other 4-links that are available, I don't think they are good for cornering. From what I've read, they are mostly street-rod based stuff designed for the strip.

I would love some kind of 3-link set up like what Lateral Dynamics is offering or even DSE's new 4-link. It's just that there are not a lot of options for early Novas when it comes to pro-touring.

Another option would be a truck-arm set up. Again, there are some compromises with that design as well. The only problem I have with them is that the only people who seem to praise that set-up either work for HTH or have worked for them. Actually, I have met Alan who owns the 38 Chevy that is on their website. He said the suspension is awesome and that he regulary keeps up with Porches in the twisties.

-j

[Matt@RFR]

My fiance owns a '65 Chevy II, which will become a prototype car for a 3-Link kit, among other things, in the next few months.

[novanutcase]

As JohnnyR knows I own a creaker '61 t-bird so the leafs on there are FAR from performance but if your experience(Alan66ss) is that the leafs are best at this point may I ask a few questions:
First: would you suggest buying new leafs dearched to the ride height of my choice?
second: how should I go about "tricking out" the rear leaf setup.
third:Why do you thnk that this is the best setup versus IRS, 3 or 4 link?

[Alan66ss]

As JohnnyR knows I own a creaker '61 t-bird so the leafs on there are FAR from performance but if your experience(Alan66ss) is that the leafs are best at this point may I ask a few questions:
First: would you suggest buying new leafs dearched to the ride height of my choice?
second: how should I go about "tricking out" the rear leaf setup.
third:Why do you thnk that this is the best setup versus IRS, 3 or 4 link?

I will try to answer your questions the best I can.

1. I am going to purchase a custom springs for my car.
2. I made mine somewhat trick by moving the stock frame rails in about 4" and keeping everything stock looking. It was just what I wanted.
3. I don't think it is necesarily the best. They have there compromises too. But from what I have gathered is that there are compromises in which ever you choose. I don't have the fab skills or the suspension knowledge to design a 3 link. So that was rulled out. From what I have read the four link is not great at cornering (binding issues). The Irs would require narrowing and I was not sure how that would truly effect the geometry. I have read positive and negatives on this. If you have time - wait to see the 3-link that Matt is talking about. I will definatly consider it for my next car. You have to make the decision on what you really want and what fits your budget.

[trackrat79]

If money is not a big issue. For the best handling for the money look in to a nascar style truck arm suspension conversion from "hot rods to hell". It takes a bit of work it does not bolt in but an entire kit with everything you need I think is under 3'000. If you or any one you know is mechanicaly inclined you could just pirate the rear suspension from a 67-72 gm pickup and do the modification your self and save about 2'000 bucks maybe more. You may say thats crazy but I have a 68 chevy truck that will pull over 1g on a 200 foot skid pad when I am done building it.

[novanutcase]

Thanks Track....Alan..thanks also. As far as a budget, lets just say that there isn't one per se although, obviously, I don't want to just throw money at the problem either. I hear that the guy that designed II Much's front end is also designing a rear end to address this very problem...anyone hear the same?

[JohnnyR]

I believe that would be Lateral Dynamics. I don't know if Parsons is involved but I believe Katz is?? Matt would have more info on that.

-j

[wiedemab]

Matt,

Are you talking a Chevy II specific 3-link. If so, I'll have to follow this one. I'm hoping to build a '65 for my next project (hoping I can afford to!). I'll be very interested to see what you come up with for this platform.

Brandon

[Mean 69]

Are you talking a Chevy II specific 3-link.

Yes, that is exactly what he is talking about. We are through the development of three specific three link kits at this time, and are in the very last stages of validating these designs through a complete install on customer cars. The cars in question are first gen Camaro's, second gen Camaro's, and B-body Mopars. Next platforms that we will be addressing are the E-body Mopar cars, Chev II's, and early Mustangs, all of which we have cars in hand to do specific product development on. We're working on front stuff too, by the way, that will be the performance equivalent of our current rear solutions.

A foreword on these kits, none of them will be bolt in. We have looked long and hard at the compromises associated with the bolt in approach, and there just is not enough room to make the links long enough to afford the performance we are after. Technically, the late model Mustang ('05's) are three link suspensions, but the control arms (upper one being the most challenging to package) are so damn short that the geometry is pure crap (in our not so humble opinion) dynamically, which is where it counts on the race course, or in a spirited street environment. Others will most likely hop on the three link bandwagon for Pro Touring cars, but I can tell you that their approach(es) will not likely be the same as ours, and that's okay. Our approach is to put performance ahead of everything else, including being able to bolt the kit on (which is not to say that the install is overly complex either, it's not).

(The attached photo is an example of our kits, this particular one was installed last week on a customer car in Texas, an outrageous 70 Super Bee show car with some very interesting mods. Ben's car will debut the show circuit at Mopar's on the Strip at the end of March in Las Vegas, and will shoot directly over to the Year One bash soon thereafter at Road Atlanta. After that, it'll do the show circuit at the important shows on the eastern side of the states.)

Thanks,
Mark

[EvolutionMotorsport]

A foreword on these kits, none of them will be bolt in. We have looked long and hard at the compromises associated with the bolt in approach, and there just is not enough room to make the links long enough to afford the performance we are after. Technically, the late model Mustang ('05's) are three link suspensions, but the control arms (upper one being the most challenging to package) are so damn short that the geometry is pure crap (in our not so humble opinion) dynamically, which is where it counts on the race course, or in a spirited street environment. Others will most likely hop on the three link bandwagon for Pro Touring cars, but I can tell you that their approach(es) will not likely be the same as ours, and that's okay. Our approach is to put performance ahead of everything else, including being able to bolt the kit on (which is not to say that the install is overly complex either, it's not).

Thanks,
Mark

What an interesting, timely and subjective post.

Thanks...Mike

[novanutcase]

I cansee that things are starting to heat up int this area. With the little knowledge that I have about suspensions, it doesn't take a detective to figure out that rear suspension techology for pro-tour applications is very behind.

[trackrat79]

Just because they don't just bolt in does not mean that its behind the curve compared to other disaplines. You need to realize that a pro-touring suspension needs to do much more than a drag style setup and do it better. A drag car is only concernd about launch and strait line tracking. A pro touring car needs launch, strait line tracking, braking, cornering. Your asking you're suspension to do a lot more. To get the performance your going to have to be willing to do some work, or decide to compromise on what you want the car to do. I am building a pro-touring truck. Being disabled I have absolutly no budget. What I do have is time ,knowledge ,and the willingness to try to do as much as possible myself.

[Mean 69]

With the little knowledge that I have about suspensions, it doesn't take a detective to figure out that rear suspension techology for pro-tour applications is very behind.

I agree, but that's about to change. True performance suspension systems are the last big hurdle for the overall balance that PT cars lack relative to the better contemporary cars. Lots of folks build great power, today's tires are excellent, the options for braking systems are staggering and there are many, many race worthy setups out there. That is also not to say that a well tuned setup that might not be optimal on paper, such as leafs springs, can't also be made to work well: it's just a question of how hard you have to work to tune the system for a particular application, and how flexible it will be to handle a multitude of driving situations for any one given setup. Not an easy equation to crack, and there's a heck of a lot more to it than slapping a bunch a couple control arms and coil overs to a car. A HECK of a lot more.

M