Some camaro questions???

[Dan Sherwood]

I'm considering a new project focused mainly on the road course events to take the place of the beating I would subject my 69 camaro to. I thought of something like a 66 corvette, but I'd be back to beating on another $50,000+ vehicle.

I'm wondering where I could get some info on the 85-89 iroc style camaros in regards to weight, rear ends, biggest tire and brake combos w/o much fabrication and pertinent info for building one of these into something that will hang at the venue mentioned.

I'm thinking I'll use the exisiting 406 (550+hp) for power and a manual trans, but not sure of these cars weaknesses/strengths for what I want to do.

After 3 1st gen projects I'm sure one of these will be alot cheaper to get into, but not sure how much aftermarket is available to get them to where I want to go. With the engine in hand I'm looking to stay on the cheap side of $20,000. Any help, info, suggestions would be appreciated. Thx!

[Damn True]

If it's going to be a track only car I'd suggest buying a race car from some SCCA dude moving into another class. There are tons of cars in your price range that fit the bill. At least ten off the top of my head in this months SCCA "Sportscar" (their club publication) mag.

[vintageracer]

As stated above, it's ALWAYS cheaper to buy somone's old race car than fabricate from new. There are lot's of competitve cars available all the time if you will just look.

I just bought another race car myself and bought a competitive, front running car rather than build a new one myself. I purchased the car for 30% or less of what it would cost to build new and I can race NOW!!!!!

Does this mean that old race cars are not worth anything? NO! It boils down to the present cost of parts and labor. As you have found out, it's just plain expensive to build anything today.

Unless you plan to be on the cutting edge of race car evolution, buy a "previously raced" car. You will have a LOT more fun!!!

[Dan Sherwood]

Thx for the replies. Since I don't race on Sundays, I'll never be in it for the $ or trophies (most finals are on Sunday) I just run in the advanced street car group on Friday and Saturday, and even though it would be mostly a track car, it must also be able to be used on the street. I'm looking for a backup for my 67 camaro that can be driven to the track if need be, and used by my sons.

The current 67 camaro will darn near hang with anyone, while the 69 weighs another 200 lbs and at 550+hp still gives up at least 100 horses to the bbc in the 67, but really is too nice and probably too valuable to be beating on it the way I do. I find myself worrying about driving it down the freeway.

I'm really looking for a car in the 3000-3200 lb range that I can transplant this 406 into, put some good aftermarket brakes and suspension mods on with a manual tranny and go have some fun without worrying about trashing a $50,000+ car. Where can I get some info on the weight of the iroc camaros? I know their biggest weak link is the 7.5 rear end, but that could be remedied fairly easily. Any other info on these iroc cars would be appreciated. Thx!

[StRacerDuke]

Dan,

I would look into a fox body mustang as a track beater. Put it on a diet, drop Grigg's full front and rear susp. under it and build a nice N/A small block. You shouldn't have much of a problem getting a very stout track car together for well under 20K. Another thing that's good about the fox (besides the weight) is the cost and availability of parts. If you get into a wall, no big deal. Just strip it out and pick up a new body for 2-3K.

[RobM]

I have heard the second gen camaro actualy have the best aero dynamics of any F body.

[Dan Sherwood]

Thx for the suggestions! You know I can't be seen in an F-bomb, so the moostang is out.

I've got some feed back on some on the irocs that has'nt been too positive, but I do have a line on a 77 camaro for cheap.

I may look at a C3 or C4 vette? It will have to handle the power of the existing 406, or at least be able to buy some parts to get it to that point without blasting the budget. Thx guys!

[LS1_78Bandit]

I have heard the second gen camaro actualy have the best aero dynamics of any F body.

No. At least not based on the various things I've read while looking into it. The TransAms of nearly every year were more aerodynamic than the camaros.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but rough order of magnitude: the 1st gens have a drag coefficient somewhere around 0.48, the 2nd gen caramos are like 0.45, the early 2nd gen trans-ams were 0.42, the later 2nd gens are between 0.39 and 0.4, the 82 camaro is 0.368, the 82 transam is 0.32, the 84 IROC is 0.34, the 84 trans am is 0.3, the 98 camaro is 0.34 and 98 t/a is 0.32.

Note that these numbers came off various web pages and spec sheets I found online, so no assurances of veracity ....

[toxicz28]

I'm wondering where I could get some info on the 85-89 iroc style camaros in regards to weight, rear ends, biggest tire and brake combos w/o much fabrication and pertinent info for building one of these into something that will hang at the venue mentioned!

Stock '86 IROC hardtop w/ a 305 TPI and a 700-R4 weighed in the nieghborhood of 3100 lbs. An '84 Z-28 w/ t-tops and a carb/ TH350 weighed 3300 lbs. The weakest link is the 7.5" rear end. 1LE brakes are in the 11" range but you would need to change the spindles for a stock conversion. I think you could fit a 275 tire on the rear without a problem. Fronts, the stock 245's rub without the factory spacers. Another plus, there is a whole ton of stuff available for these cars.

[TUBED]

Check out www.RacingJunk.com there's a Pontiac Firebird (Ad#590304) with top quality name brand parts ie... Motec, ATL, and etc. for several grand less than the quote you stated in your post.

Gerald

[slowcamaro]

On the invoice of my 82 z28 they list shipping weight at 3296. (1945 front 59%, 1351 rear 41%)

Ive heard of some fully optioned Irocs in the range of 3600 lbs.

With proper offsets and custom wheels you can easily fit a 315 within the upper wheel flare. Some folks disagree about fitment stating that a 315 doesnt fit within the bodylines looking from behind.

http://lbsz28blown.cz28.com/cgi-bin/...ls_rear_lg.jpg

275's are about as big as id go upfront and you have to be careful with sizes there too. Different years had different steering boxes and the stops were calibrated for different size tires, a custom box could solve this issue.

For brakes c5 conversion is about as cheap as the 1le conversion if you have to buy all new parts, and if you have access to free or cheap machine work, the cost really isnt that bad.

All of the stock transmissions arent that great in third gens, seems like every one of the trans offered has there share of problems. (200c, 700r4, t5 and wc t-5).

4th gen cars are good sources of parts. lt1 t56 transmissions can be found at reasonable prices. and ive seen complete ls1 rearends from rotor to rotor go for $300 bucks.

edited: front rear weight split added, as noted on build sheet.

[Dan Sherwood]

Great info guys! Just the kind I was looking for. Much grass!

[slowcamaro]

Found a little more tech after some digging.

Weight of Unoptioned 1987 F-Body Combinations
Model Base Weight
IROC-Z 305 5.0 5-Speed 3250
Formula 305 5.0 5-Speed 3383
IROC-Z 350 5.7 Automatic Overdrive 3341
GTA 350 5.7 Automatic Overdrive 3476



Weight Data on 1992 Camaros
Model Shipping Weight Curb Weight
Camaro Coupe 3025 3105
Convertible 3142 3220
Z/28 Coupe 3194 3273
Convertible 3298 3377


various other third gen shipping weights via owner invoices.

1982 camaro z28 (LG4/200c)......3296 (front 1945 [59.0%], rear 1351)
1982 pontiac S/E (LG4/4sp)........3041 (front 1978 [65.0%], rear 1063)
1983 camaro z28 (LG4/700r4).....3241 (front 1931 [59.6%], rear 1310)
1986 pontiac firebird (LB8/T5).....3002
1986 camaro z28 (LB9/700R4).....3403
1987 camaro iroc (L98/700r4).....3478 (front 2064 [59.3%], rear 1414)
1987 camaro iroc (L98/700r4).....3461 (front 2064 [59.6%], rear 1397)
1987 pontiac firebird (LG4/700r4).3635
1987 camaro RS (LB8/700r4).......3106 (front 1722 [55.4%], rear 1384)
1989 pontiac gta......................3389
1990 camaro RS (LO3/700r4)......3267
1991 pontiac T/A Vert (LB9/t5)...3455 (front 1996 [57.7%], rear 1459)
1991 camaro z28 (L98/700r4).....3413
1991 camaro vert (LO3/700r4)....3425
1991 pontiac firebird(LH0/700r4)..3117

[Dan Sherwood]

I've heard the iroc (and that gen) had overheating issues. After seeing a few I see why, where they have no opening for the radiator to get air.

My shop owner has a 78 z/28 that although extremely dirty from 5 years of storage in sunny/dusty az, with the windows down, the body if really very straight. Needs an engine and a rear end, along with the usual items you'd replace anyway.

In reality it is really just what I'm looking for without the items I'd replace anyway. Just one problem-in looking at the car, and alot of the ones I've considered, it elicits zero emotion from me.

[toxicz28]

I've heard the iroc (and that gen) had overheating issues.

Only if the air dam below the radiator was missing or damaged.