My Barrett Jackson thoughts

[Bill Howell]

good point ! some build, some buy ... i bought my house , i didnot build it i guess i am a checkwriter also !

Thank you Kenny, as a builder of homes and cabins in east Tennessee, I can appreciate your comment. Kinda my point all along here, no difference in writing the check or doing the work, still your car, or house. Let the haters be haters, I guess they all built their own house too. Oh yeah, bolt ons(ie garage doors, repainting shutters, even backyard shops) don't count, still homeowner poser........

[Travis B]

good point ! some build, some buy ... i bought my house , i didnot build it i guess i am a checkwriter also !

he is famous for this quote on several forums....

[kennyd]

i really dig boyds cars , my top 10 of all time includes 4 of boyds cars ! whattahey,boydair,led zephry , vern luce coupe, the polara could move into spot 10 and push out a nice car .

i hate popole using the term " checkwriter" thats just like using the " n " word

[kennyd]

the funny thing about my saying that about my house is , i and my father did build it .

[Damn True]

The thing is, when my house is done I wont take it to shows and try to pass it off as my own. Yeah, I paid for it, but I hired a talented architect and contractor and will readilly admit that I have no idea how to do what they do.

Bill, I don't think anyone has a problem with a situation such as yours or Cuda-guy Johnson. You were involved in every step of the creation of Billy Goat. You can recite chapter and verse the technical details of the car. You are a car guy and to other car guys that is readilly identifiable and much respected.

What some of us DO have a distaste for though (I won't use the term "hater" because I'm not 16 years old) is the guy who simply wants to "buy-in".
Knows nothing of what went into the car.
Is clueless as to the process.
Has no knowledge of the technical details of the car.
Is barely able to appreciate the difference in craftsmanship between what Bobby Alloway does and some of the 20 footers that Boyd has produced of late. They are buying the car because it is a status symbol for them. A red badge of honor to display to their equally clueless friends and exclaim, "I bought this from the famous Boyd Coddington for $150k."
These guys don't have an appreciation for high-level craftsmanship or engineering. For those of you who are builders the only status you have in their eyes is predicated on what you sold your last car for, not how well you built it and if the next flavor of the week builder crops up at next years BJ auction you will be dropped by those guys like a bad habit because what you do has zero value to them.

Look at Orange County Choppers. Absolute abortion bikes. The vast majority of what they do is catalog bolt-ons with a couple of decorations welded on to match a "theme". No engineering, no ride quality consideration, no handling consideration, no safety consideration. All style (most of it bad) and no substance. Yet, they sell bikes (for now) to clueless dolts who see them on the Discovery Channel and can't tell the difference and don't see a difference between what OCC does and the kind of bikes that are built by Jesse James, Indian Larry (R.I.P.), Paul Yaffee, Dave Perewitz and Russel Mitchell. The people that buy bikes from OCC are not bikers, they are collectors of Objets D'art.

Yeah, those collectors have fat wallets and I don't knock anyone who can tap into that. You gotta pay your bills just like I gotta pay mine. But I refuse, as do many others, to regard a collector of Objet D'art (or "check-writer" if you will) in the same manner as I do someone who bends their own wrench.

[kennyd]

boy has this got way off subject ,
doug ,bob , was the beer cold ?

[96Z28SS]

Look at Orange County Choppers. Absolute abortion bikes. The vast majority of what they do is catalog bolt-ons with a couple of decorations welded on to match a "theme". No engineering, no ride quality consideration, no handling consideration, no safety consideration. All style (most of it bad) and no substance. Yet, they sell bikes (for now) to clueless dolts who see them on the Discovery Channel and can't tell the difference and don't see a difference between what OCC does and the kind of bikes that are built by Jesse James, Indian Larry (R.I.P.), Paul Yaffee, Dave Perewitz and Russel Mitchell. The people that buy bikes from OCC are not bikers, they are collectors of Objets D'art.

I think from watching OCC on TV lately I think they are more high tech than alot of the other builder shows I've seen on TV.
They have been doing alot of the stuff in house now. They have a Solidworks CAD Designer. Faro arm digitizer, CNC machines. The Bikes you see on the TV shows are the theme bikes which is just a paid advertisement, its cheaper than a 30 second commercial spot. They get talked about on 2 episodes 2 hours total. Like the Lincoln bike, the Gillette Razor bike, the Napa bike, Snap-on etc.. its all just an advertisement.
The regular bikes that OCC sell the street legal ones. with directional and horn and can pass an inspection, are just as good as any other custom bike builder.

[Damn True]

I think from watching OCC on TV lately I think they are more high tech than alot of the other builder shows I've seen on TV.
They have been doing alot of the stuff in house now. They have a Solidworks CAD Designer. Faro arm digitizer, CNC machines. The Bikes you see on the TV shows are the theme bikes which is just a paid advertisement, its cheaper than a 30 second commercial spot. They get talked about on 2 episodes 2 hours total. Like the Lincoln bike, the Gillette Razor bike, the Napa bike, Snap-on etc.. its all just an advertisement.
The regular bikes that OCC sell the street legal ones. with directional and horn and can pass an inspection, are just as good as any other custom bike builder.

Oh dude a fancy water-jet cutting machine does not a good bike make.

Have you seen any of their bikes in person? The rake/trail numbers are often completely absurd. The bar-reach is totally jacked up in terms of the ability to control the bike. The foot control location relative to the saddle is often really really wrong. They just are really poorly designed bikes.

[kennyd]

Oh dude a fancy water-jet cutting machine does not a good bike make.

Have you seen any of their bikes in person? The rake/trail numbers are often completely absurd. The bar-reach is totally jacked up in terms of the ability to control the bike. The foot control location relative to the saddle is often really really wrong. They just are really poorly designed bikes.

yes i have , and i have seen alot of car that are worse !

[Damn True]

yes i have , and i have seen alot of car that are worse !

....and that is relative....to what?

The point is their bikes are a joke. Yet the dolts that buy them don't know any better because they aren't bikers. They are simply collecting expensive stuff. The only "value" is in the name and noterity created by a TV show.

If you had the reputation you too could build crappy cars and sell them for big $$ to clueless collectors just like Boyd. But would you want that?

I mean, the money is attractive to be sure. But the price is that you go from being a car guy, a hot-rodder to being OCC/Boyd....sold out. And, everyone but the clueless dolt collectors will be able to see it.

I have never seen anything you've built. But I get the sense that you have some skill. But to the collector, that skill & talent is irelevant. That's how Boyd can get away with selling cars with visible bondo. They are buying it because it has Boyds name on it for the same reason a 14 year old girl buys a sweatshirt with Gwen Steffani's name on it.



The point is, that there is a huge difference between a genuine car guy and a dude who is simply a collector.

[96Z28SS]

Oh dude a fancy water-jet cutting machine does not a good bike make.

Have you seen any of their bikes in person? The rake/trail numbers are often completely absurd. The bar-reach is totally jacked up in terms of the ability to control the bike. The foot control location relative to the saddle is often really really wrong. They just are really poorly designed bikes.

yes they have a water jet cutting machine also, along with CNC machines and stuff. They have come along way since there first few seasons. I have seen there Theme Bikes in person and have also seen there regular retail bikes.
The theme bikes are totaly different from the regular bikes.

I haven't seen a bike builder on TV with as much in house equipment as OCC and Borget bikes. Jesse James has alot of equipment also. OCC is building bikes from computer CAD files now. I have never taken there bikes for a ride but I haven't heard anyone complaining either.

[Damn True]

"I have seen their Theme Bikes"....(Sorry, it's a pet peve of mine.)



That's because most of the people that buy them, don't ride them. If they do, they don't have enough experience on a bike to tell that they are riding a P.O.S.

Yes, they have CNC mills and a CAD machine. Big freakin deal.
I have Solidworks on my computer at work. Does that mean I can design a bike with appropriate geometry? Can I design a 3-link rear suspension that will be effective? No. The output is only as good as the input. If you tell the CNC mill to make something, it'll do it. It dosen't care if the geometry is right, or if it is engineered appropriately.

The amount of in house equipment they have is not relevant. The end result is. The geometry on their bikes is crap. The riding positions aren't safe. But people buy 'em.


But I don't think the relative quality of OCC bikes is the point. What is the point is that people buy them regardless of the quality. People buy them because of the noterity created by a TV show. People buy them because it creates status among other people who also don't understand the difference between a bike built by OCC and a bike built by Perewitz or Mitchell. People buy them for the same reason 14 year old girls pay $108 (I'm serious, google it) for a hooded sweatshirt from Gwen Steffani.

Equally, people pay fat coin for a car from Boyd regardless of the quality. They buy it because it has his name on it and because it is expensive.
That is the difference between a collector and a real car guy. The real car guy wont accept shoddy workmanship and crap engineering because even if he has the means to have somone else build it he understands and appreciates the difference between an expensive P.O.S. and an expensive well built car. He understands the difference between a builder that is in it for a quick buck and a builder that cares about the product he creates. He understands because more than likely at one point in his life he did it himself because he had to. That guy is a real car guy, a real hot-rodder.

[96Z28SS]

...OCC/Boyd....sold out and everyone but the clueless dolt collectors will be able to see it.

How did OCC sell out? They had nothing to sell. Boyd had an established name in the hot rod world. He was the man to go to for a cool custom in the '80 & '90's.

OCC was in the basement of there Iron works shop. The show has made them all the money. So you can't say they sold out. The made there money by the advertisement that these companies pay to have theme bikes built. The theme bike as far as I know aren't bike you ride.
Paul Sr. takes them out for a few miles then thats probably all they get ridden.

[Doug Cooper]

boy has this got way off subject ,
doug ,bob , was the beer cold ?

I was to busy looking at the cars and "writing checks"! Just kidding I didn't buy anything this year, came close. I bid on the 57 Nomad Leonard Lopez built but Michael Anthony took it home.

[kennyd]

I was to busy looking at the cars and "writing checks"! Just kidding I didn't buy anything this year, came close. I bid on the 57 Nomad Leonard Lopez built but Michael Anthony took it home.

thats the nomad that was on display with dupont ? red / cream .. nice car

[derekf]

Mark - I'm not really sure where you're dividing this up. To use American Hot Rod as an example, it sounds like what you're saying is that Roy and Charlie built cars; Bluebear and the like just assembled?

What if someone does great bodywork but farms out the painting? Or if the body didn't need any bodywork but the owner painted it himself? Would you consider JP a car builder? He definitely did the fabrication, but farmed out the body work.

Or am I (and I think others) taking what you said in the wrong way?

[Travis B]

Mark - I'm not really sure where you're dividing this up. To use American Hot Rod as an example, it sounds like what you're saying is that Roy and Charlie built cars; Bluebear and the like just assembled?

he was using boyd as an example only stating he would be considered a car builder(i.e. he does tear down,fab,fit,body, paint, etc etc) I think that was the only reason that name was brought up!

To buy a car and change the motor and trans throw in some drop springs is not building a car!

[Damn True]

Would one need to smelt iron ore, manganese, nickel, copper and bronze then take those raw elements and combine them into steel in order to manufacture their own sheet metal as well?

[1sick65]

Just my two cents...I'm not a car builder and never have claimed to be one. With the help on my friends and only with their help, I have done most of the work to my car. Even though I farmed out my motor, paint and body, I'm still proud of what I have done. I can tear apart and put any car back together, and it doesn't make me a builder.

I have a lot of respect for my buddies that are true car builders. It's one hell of a lot of work, and no matter how nice it is, you always have someone that wants to pick it apart. Then again, most people that critize a car, doesn't have a damn clue of what it takes.

OK, I'm done now. Kenny...where did you say that beer was.

[Travis B]

Would one need to smelt iron ore, manganese, nickel, copper and bronze then take those raw elements and combine them into steel in order to manufacture their own sheet metal as well?

wouldn't hurt