Magnacharged LSX in 1st gen

[streetk14]

The more I look into the LSX motors the more I am amazed with their performance. I have been planning to get a new motor for my '68 for a while, a 434ci gen 1 engine to be exact. But now the LS bug has hit me and I really like the idea of a magnacharged LS1. I have been inspired by Tony's (Nineball) '69.
I'm new to the LSX world, so let me know if I am on/off track with what I want to do. I would like to make about 500 rwhp and torque. Here is what I have in mind:
-low mileage used LS1 motor and T56
-205cc AFR heads with 76cc chambers to lower compression
-Comp cam (high 220's to low 230's duration)
-1 3/4" Hooker headers w/ 3" exhaust
-and of course, the blower
I am trying to figure out how much boost I should run and whether or not I should intercool. Does anyone here have experience with the Magnacharger intercooling system? From what I've seen, it requires a water tank and pump along with a heat exchanger behind the grill area. Tony's car is intercooled but I did not see any of this stuff on his car in the pictures (maybe it's hidden?). Also, can a stock LS1 short block take this kind of power? I'm trying to do this without having to rob a bank, so I'd like to avoid tearing apart the bottom end if I don't have to. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks,
Andy

[phoenixdawg]

I am in process of getting all the stuff together to make an LS1/4l60e swap into a 68 vert.

I bought a book by Will Handzel that gets in depth about performance upgrades to the LS1 - good book, highly suggest purchasing(can't remember the title though).

There is a section of the book that references adding 100 hp with a cam, head, manifold swap. So going from stock 335 to 435 should not be real hard, I would guess that adding a magnacharger (another 100 hp). I think you would easily get your 500 hp, don't know if that is rear wheel or fly wheel. What I can't answer is if you need to go into the bottom end or not.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

So going from stock 335 to 435 should not be real hard, I would guess that adding a magnacharger (another 100 hp). I think you would easily get your 500 hp, don't know if that is rear wheel or fly wheel. What I can't answer is if you need to go into the bottom end or not.

Stock HP is closer to 350/360 than 335. You can get damn near 400hp with just bolt-ons. Most head / cam swaps these days end up around 430rwhp, but some of the higher end or more aggressive setups yield 460+rwhp (purpose built motors can see 500rwhp with stock cubes). Most all LSX guys talk in terms of RWHP, since that's what matters in the end. 500rwhp equates to about 580hp with a manual. Lots of improvements have been made over the years in the Gen III aftermarket (especially in the tuning department), so if the book is older, the 435hp is probably at the flywheel.

The LSX motors make incredible power. Depending on the compression, the AFR 205s and cam should make anywhere between 430-460+rwhp N/A, depending on intake and some other things. 500rwhp should be no prolem with the mangnacharger. If you're going to run more than 7-8psi you may want to run forged internals, or atleast forged rods and pistons, with the stock crank. I would do lots of reading over on LS1tech and decide what will work best for you. Also, you may want to get the compression down slightly, I think the AFRs are around 10.5:1 out of the box, but I may be wrong.

[streetk14]

Stock HP is closer to 350/360 than 335. You can get damn near 400hp with just bolt-ons. Most head / cam swaps these days end up around 430rwhp, but some of the higher end or more aggressive setups yield 460+rwhp (purpose built motors can see 500rwhp with stock cubes). Most all LSX guys talk in terms of RWHP, since that's what matters in the end. 500rwhp equates to about 580hp with a manual. Lots of improvements have been made over the years in the Gen III aftermarket (especially in the tuning department), so if the book is older, the 435hp is probably at the flywheel.

The LSX motors make incredible power. Depending on the compression, the AFR 205s and cam should make anywhere between 430-460+rwhp N/A, depending on intake and some other things. 500rwhp should be no prolem with the mangnacharger. If you're going to run more than 7-8psi you may want to run forged internals, or atleast forged rods and pistons, with the stock crank. I would do lots of reading over on LS1tech and decide what will work best for you. Also, you may want to get the compression down slightly, I think the AFRs are around 10.5:1 out of the box, but I may be wrong.

I have been lurking around LS1tech for info. I really like Tony's comination, and the performance it resulted in (there is a wheels-up launch picture on his site). The torque that the blower creates should be some serious fun. I'm not sure what he did for compression. A stock LS1 head has 67cc chambers. I would be getting the 76cc AFR heads which should drop the compression close to 9:1. I think 8 psi max is what I'd like to do, no more. I'm trying to avoid doing any modifications to the short block if I can. I think I'll be fine with that compression, it is the stock rotating assembly that I'm not sure of.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

it is the stock rotating assembly that I'm not sure of.

Supposedly the stock crank is good to 700rwhp or so, it's very strong. I'm not sure on the rods, pistons, etc.

[Steve1968LS2]

I am in process of getting all the stuff together to make an LS1/4l60e swap into a 68 vert.

I bought a book by Will Handzel that gets in depth about performance upgrades to the LS1 - good book, highly suggest purchasing(can't remember the title though).

There is a section of the book that references adding 100 hp with a cam, head, manifold swap. So going from stock 335 to 435 should not be real hard, I would guess that adding a magnacharger (another 100 hp). I think you would easily get your 500 hp, don't know if that is rear wheel or fly wheel. What I can't answer is if you need to go into the bottom end or not.

The wuss LS1 in my '69 made 380RWHP with only a baby cam (224) and some ported heads (LS6 intake, shorty headers)..

Getting 500fwhp out of an LSx is easy.. especially if you pick up a larger displacement LS2..

[1970cuda]

http://www.schwartzperformance.com/alien.htm

[in2protour]

I think Tony (Nineball) used a 2002 Corvette LS6 block for his '69 build. Just check out Tony's website www.extremeg.net I must say, Tony did a great job documenting the build up of his '69.

[WS6]

the setup you have listed should net 500rwhp. you can keep the cam in the 220s too. ive built a couple of upper 400 rwhp Vettes using the magnacharger and nothing but a baby cam and full exhaust. both manual cars. one made 460 non intercooled(5psi) the other made 470 intercooled(6.5psi).<--- this one had 3.90 gears. can you say traction control necessary. torque for both was in the 450s. heads have never been off and the cams were stealth cams basically.

so if you use AFR205s or ported LS heads plus a more agressive cam say a blower specific in the mid/upper 220s, lift in the .6 range you should make it no problem. i would intercool the unit simply because it works. with the intercooler and proper tuning, 7-8psi should not be a problem on a healthy engine. this is with factory compression rating also.

you are correct on how the intercooler works. the system comes with a ford electric water pump that pumps water from a small resevoir(make or get a bigger one if you can) through a heat exchanger mounted up front somewhere then into the manifold base.

i prefer the magnacharger to the pro-charger, but then again i only care about how fun a car is to drive on the street.

[Bill Howell]

The intercoolers on the new magnacharger are pretty simple to hook up. Like Trey said, just a small pump, tank, and the intercooler itself. They are even making a new manifold that has input and output on the same side now. The one on my goat has them on opposite sides. We hid the pump and tank under the left fender. intercooler was tight fit, but doable. Magnacharger does not have quite the power of a procharger, but much neater package and very reliable. No plumbing issues to deal with.

[Dave95Z28]

I am digging the Twin Screw Chargers myself like this Kenne Bell setup from www.turnkeyenginesupply.com



I am curious if they will sell it separately from the engine.

Or Whipple Supercharger new LS1 Tuner setup (now selling their own in house supercharger). My only concern with it would be the height. I was going to post a picture of it as well but it appears to have been pulled off their website in the last couple of days.

Dave

Edit....sorry about the picture size...it was much smaller on their website.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Or Whipple Supercharger new LS1 Tuner setup (now selling their own in house supercharger). My only concern with it would be the height. I was going to post a picture of it as well but it appears to have been pulled off their website in the last couple of days.

Dave, can you post a link to the new whipple? The twin screws are very nice. The KB blower kit for C5s is set to be released in February. Shouldn't be too hard to adapt to a PT car.

[Dave95Z28]

Dave, can you post a link to the new whipple? The twin screws are very nice. The KB blower kit for C5s is set to be released in February. Shouldn't be too hard to adapt to a PT car.

I seached my internet history and found the link. It is no longer mentioned on Whipple's website.

3.3 Liter Displacement and Intercooled....

LS1/LS2/LS6 Whipple Tuner Kit

[WS6]

im curious to see just how well the KB does. if their efforts for the Cobra our any indication im sure itll be a blast. of course to really see it shine youd need forged parts to handle the boost it can generate.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Thanks, Dave. It looks like there would be some clearence issues, that's a real tall supercharger.

[Phillip_L]

I am working on a similar engine now for a 1969 Camaro. The car completely taken apart and ready. I am simply waiting on the motor and blower. The motor should be ready in a week or two (I am waiting on the custom pistons).

LS2 Block
Stock Crank
Forged Rods
Forged Pistons (9:1 for the blower)
Ported heads
Blower Cam
Stainless Works long tubes and exhaust
Ricks fuel tank
Built T56
12-bot rear end (3.73)
Global West Coil-over suspension
Willwood brakes

I am still trying to hold out for the Kennie Bell blower. I got some decent information today from R&D. It should not be long.

Phillip Lawrence

[Nine Ball]

Thanks for the compliments on my Camaro guys. I had a lot of fun building, racing, and driving it. The Magnacharger was definitely the eye candy of the car, people would stand there for several minutes at shows trying to figure out what kind of engine the car had and how the blower worked, haha.

500 rwhp is easy with a blower. I originally built that engine to handle twin-turbos and about 750-800 rwhp, but couldn't pass up the deal on the blower. My shortblock was 9:1 with forged pistons and rods, ported 6.0L truck heads (basically LS6 ports but with a larger combustion chamber).

If I were to do it all over again with a Magna, I'd build the engine with slightly more compression ratio and run less boost. I had to use the smallest pulley available to feed the low compression engine, and ended up making similar power to other cars with stock shortblocks and less boost. I'd shoot for 9.5 to 9.75 CR and put as much boost as pump gas can handle. Should be easily over 500 rwhp.

I put the slightly larger cam in that car so I could hear it lope. I wanted the car to sound like a classic musclecar should. Honestly, a 226/226 or so duration cam would have provided the same performance with a more mild idle. Boring on a hotrod

Here is what I'd recommend for a budget 500 rwhp:

any LS1/LS6 shortblock (stock, low mileage)
hand ported 6.0L aluminum truck heads from a well known company.
228/232 duration, .590 range lift, 114 lobe separation hydraulic cam
ARP head studs
ARP rod bolts
1-3/4 primary long tube headers with at least dual 2.75" exhaust.
Magnacharger, intercooled at 8 psi

If you can swing it, upgrade to forged pistons and rods.

Tony