Too much money for re-sale projects?

[badazz81z28]

What yall think? I know people put a lot of time and money into their projects, but when it comes time to sell, are people asking too much?



You take a 69 Camaro, put a few mods on it and people want $50K when there’s a lot to go. I saw a car that isn’t even painted and they want six figures!

who’s buying project cars for more money than you could buy a 10k mile 6th gen Camaro? Or a C6 Z06?

[CSG]

I think we are probably asking too much. I know mine hasn't sold at 75. 69, fully painted, DSE, 495 LS3, basically everything to finish it included. I guess that most guys with higher end projects have enough money that they aren't that concerned with selling them, so they price them somewhere where they don't lose a ton and then sit on them.

[stab6902]

Yes, I think we're currently in a "buyers market" for incomplete pro-touring builds (and maybe even pro-touring cars as a whole).

Both parts and labor have increased a lot over the past handful of years. Painting with a broad brush, most middle class guys have less discretionary spending power than before, and as you mentioned, a lot of newer cars seem like a great value in comparison. You can make a great case financially for keeping your classic car build mild and buying a newer Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, etc for the track. Maybe not as cool, but probably safer and more financially responsible.

[Pro Touring Store]

To answer "who's buying them" - I don't know lol. But, I can tell you that now days, at a shop it's easy to spend well over 100k before the car gets painted. So if they have a car listed for 120k and there's $80k in parts and 100k in labor already done, well that sounds like the buyer is ahead.

I could see a shop owner seeing value in that, and proposing to a client "hey this one will cost $40k less at the end because most of the hard stuff was already done" or something. But as a DIY'er definitely can't see much of a market for that lol.

-Dale

[CSG]

I made good progress on mine & then health has shut it down. I did some math on what it would cost to have a shop do some of the time consuming work that is remaining and wow that added up fast. I was doing rough numbers at $125 an hour. 40 hours to finish the AAW harness, 10 hours to finish brake lines, etc., & the cost got really big really fast.

[badazz81z28]

That’s just one fact of reality, yeah if you intended to pay someone to build you a car, buying an unfinished project at $120k could be a great deal.

DIY, it’s hard to get someone to cover the expense you had paid to have work done. Also buyers don’t assume the “debt”. Meaning a car is supposed to have a working transmission, it’s not the potential buyers fault you paid $10k to get it overhauled and re-installed. I think people ask prices based on what they have in it, not what the buyer market says it worth.

[srode]

who’s buying project cars for more money than you could buy a 10k mile 6th gen Camaro? Or a C6 Z06?

Sounds like you are a frustrated shopper? 6th gen Camaros and C6s are everywhere, a nice 1969 Camaro well done commands good money because they are much harder to find and expensive to build now days. Rusted out ones are going for $20K + some.

On the other hand asking price doesn't mean they are selling. Some are dreamers, but nicely priced ones sell in a day or two often. You just need to be ready to travel instantly and have cash in hand to buy good deals or catch one before it hits the market.

[79 Camaro]

Project cars can be a real crap shoot. If it has a a number of new or rebuilt parts I would want to see receipts for everything. When I sell one of my project cars the new owners get all receipts.
Body work is total crap shoot. Best to have the car/truck inspected by a body guy you trust.
The good thing about a project car with a lot of good parts you can get those parts for about half price.
As said above rusted out project cars some want 20K plus.
So my favorite unfinished project was a 67 Nova SS. Totally rust free. Original 327 long gone. PO got totally hoses from a somewhat local LS swap expert.
Before and after pics.

[badazz81z28]

Sounds like you are a frustrated shopper? 6th gen Camaros and C6s are everywhere, a nice 1969 Camaro well done commands good money because they are much harder to find and expensive to build now days. Rusted out ones are going for $20K + some.

On the other hand asking price doesn't mean they are selling. Some are dreamers, but nicely priced ones sell in a day or two often. You just need to be ready to travel instantly and have cash in hand to buy good deals or catch one before it hits the market.

That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all day…you do realize GM made a quarter million Camaros each year of the first gen….they are truly a dime a dozen. Go to eBay..tons of them
You would be hard pressed to find some of these newer cars. GM only produced 50k 6th Gen’s and short of 28k Z06 from 06-13…..now that’s rare.

[srode]

That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all day…you do realize GM made a quarter million Camaros each year of the first gen….they are truly a dime a dozen. Go to eBay..tons of them

Nice pro touring first getn's aren't dime a dozen, finished they can be $200k or more. They are hand built works of art that can take years to build vs an off the shelf car anyone can go buy.

[BonzoHansen]

Nice pro touring first getn's aren't dime a dozen, finished they can be $200k or more. They are hand built works of art that can take years to build vs an off the shelf car anyone can go buy.

sweet one just went for $230k on BAT this week.

[EnhancedAspiration]

Personally I wouldn't mind buying a project car knowing that I would be able to tackle most of the remainders myself.
I think one of the challenges is that there are a lot of uncertainties associated particularly with mechanical parts like motor, transmission etc. whether they are in good shape and functions as expected. As with any car, you'd buy the seller.

[Olds.PhD]

While "dime a dozen" may not be the most accurate statement, it is true that the first gen Camaro is one of, if not THE most popular pro-touring platform. They're everywhere and certainly not hard to find in pretty much any condition you want. Pretty hard to stand out with one of those these days - everything's been done.

Still, they're popular, so they'll always command a premium.

[badazz81z28]

Nice pro touring first getn's aren't dime a dozen, finished they can be $200k or more. They are hand built works of art that can take years to build vs an off the shelf car anyone can go buy.

I think you very much have a skewed perspective. Every, more like most PT cars are not the latest Detroit Speed or Kindig build. Most protouring cars out there are amateur built and they are everywhere at every level of quality. Go to eBay and see for yourself.

[Vimes]

...are amateur built and they are everywhere at every level of quality.

That part is a shame, really. Too many shops will only take on the job if you drop the carcass off with the expectation of a 6 figure turnkey project. This means people either cough up way too much money, or do substandard work they aren't qualified to do. Shops would do a lot more business and make far more money if they'd be more willing to do piecemeal work. There's a lot more people out there with 10,000 and a small need than there are people with 100,000 and are only interested in owning a finished product and not having something they built themselves. If shops were willing to just do the bits that people can't do themselves for whatever reason, even amateur level projects would be way better.

[dontlifttoshift]

Shops would do a lot more business and make far more money if they'd be more willing to do piecemeal work.

I can say with great certainty, that is not true.

[dhutton]

That part is a shame, really. Too many shops will only take on the job if you drop the carcass off with the expectation of a 6 figure turnkey project. This means people either cough up way too much money, or do substandard work they aren't qualified to do. Shops would do a lot more business and make far more money if they'd be more willing to do piecemeal work. There's a lot more people out there with 10,000 and a small need than there are people with 100,000 and are only interested in owning a finished product and not having something they built themselves. If shops were willing to just do the bits that people can't do themselves for whatever reason, even amateur level projects would be way better.

Most, if not all, decent shops have a waiting list. No need for piecemeal work that is going to be a PITA imo….

[Vimes]

We're gonna disagree on that one. For every guy who can afford a 6 figure turnkey project there's a thousand with 10 grand who just need a few things done. The turnkey jobs are just easier to manage.

[badazz81z28]

Seems to me, businesses rather build entire cars because it’s easier to manage and they can slap a brand on it when it’s done. I do think there is more money in small jobs, but it’s not exciting to a “builder” to do that. It would have actually been nice to have DSE install their parts on my car, but nope! They won’t do it…I probably have about $10k in odd ball labor in a period of a couple of weeks total.

I know not everyone is a crook, but doing a build from the ground up is also easier to squeeze you dry with labor.

[JLMounce]

I think it's a combination of all of the above. Shops currently are able to charge extreme premiums to build full cars. The money is there from people with no time or desire to build a car to just get one done from them. Guntherworks, Singer, Roadstershop, KinDigIt, Revology. These companies have waiting lists for cars that cost 300k-1M.

Then high quality builds cross the blocks in very public fashion in Kissimee, Scottsdale etc. It gives a perception that if a quality built 1969 Camaro restomod brought 150K at auction, surely my "nice" 1969 Camaro must be worth at least 50K.

It's a perception versus reality gap. The guy that can and wants to spend multiple six figures on a 1969 Camaro, is demanding perfection, they have no desire to deal with the issues of a "nice" car that "only" costs 50K.

That brings me to the DIY'ers of us. The guys that don't have all the skills, but have enough money that if we need to have a couple things done, we can. Yeah, there are a lot of us and we are competing for the same time and space with each other for a diminishing amount of good shops that do that type of work. We are just as much to blame, because we could learn the skill necessary to complete that work, but it's easier to pay to have it done.

Locally, if I wanted to have a DSE 4 Link installed, the labor quote is going to be 3-4x the price of parts and I'll probably have to wait 9-12 months to get my car into the shop.

All of this ads upward pressure on asking prices for all cars, even the ones that aren't pro builds. That doesn't mean the cars are going to sell for those asking prices though. If you can prove that what you've built provides OEM level reliability with precision craftsmanship and quality materials, there's a buyer that will give you 6 figures for your car. People looking for a fun car that only have 50-75K to spend? Unless they just have to have the classic, best are that they are looking at modern performance cars in their price range.

And that is why, even though I'm pretty proud of the car that I built, at the end of the day I understand it's probably only worth around 35K. Even that could be high.