BTO 4L80E or 200-4R??

[Josh]

I am having a tuff time finding a good used 480LE in my neck of the woods, only one I can find is in the local yard from a diesel truck = $700. The stage III 200-4R from Bow Tie overdrives looks like a decent option but I still question durability. This would be behind a 540 BBC pushing out 630+ Ft/lbs, 95% street driven. BTO also sells a rebuilt 4L80E for $2000 but does not have half the heavy duty parts the 200-4R has. Which would hold up better? I realize I would have to buy a controller for the 4L80E but I do like the idea of being able to set shift points etc. and possibly a paddle shifter in the future. What do you guys think??

[DeltaT]

I would (and did) go with the 80E. I am very happy with it and like the programmability. Mine's behind a blown 383.

Jim

[Josh]

Thanks for the input Bill.

[Jagarang]

4L80E needs a pricey controller

[hectore3]

K.I.S.S Principle,

Those built 200R4's are easily backing up turbo Buicks. My money is on that trans or if you really feel crazy. Go with a built TH400 inline with a Gear Vendors overdrive.

[vintageracer]

2004R. There good enough for 9 second Grand Nationals so it should work for you! Not necessarily a cheaper choice since your application will require needed upgrades for high horsepower/torque but a 2004R is a good package. Also it's easy to install.

[rocketrod]

2004R! Check out www.turbobuick.com, username Brian. He sells a very stout and reasonably priced 2004R.

[DeltaT]

I would rathe have an understressed, overbuilt unit like the 4L80E than an overstressed, overbuilt unit like the 200R4. I guess it depends on whether you expect to rebuild the tranny every season or two, or expect it to last for 60K miles without any major service. Remember the big block is putting out the torque all the time, whereas you need to be jumping on the V6 turbo to get their ungodly torque numbers. The rest of the time they are driving around like a normal V6.

As far as the TH400 and GV Overdrive, at that price level you are easily on a par with a built 4L80E with controller, and you are getting a way more flexible and programmable package. My total, without a good 80E core to send back to Hughes, was $4800. A $500 core would have given me back about $400 (Hughes charges $1000 for a core charge) after shipping them the core.

There's even an E-trans-brake available for the 80E now, through Rossler.

Here's a pic:



Jim

My Site: http://home.mindspring.com/~jim_fisk/id1.html

[Roadrage David]

Remember the big block is putting out the torque all the time, whereas you need to be jumping on the V6 turbo to get their ungodly torque numbers. The rest of the time they are driving around like a normal V6.

Thats not intirely acurate!!!! the big block is only thumping out torque when you nail it under normal driving conditions it wil give no more torque then the v6 turbo by regulare street driven speeds/ manners. it al comes douwn to your right feet .

[DeltaT]

Umm, most big blocks have over 400ft/lb by 1600rpm, right? And it goes up from there. You could drive that V6 all day without putting your foot in it and stay below 200ft/lb. It only delivers the torque when you put your foot way into it and the turbo spools up. No heavy throttle, no turbo spool. The bigblock will consistently deliver more torque to the tranny.


Jim

[Josh]

My current situation is such that I need to have something I can install and not think about for several years, ie. not have to rebuild. 4 kids under 5 years old = Limited time in the garage!
My foot does tend to advance the throttle forward at any given opportunity so this tranny will see torque..

[rocketrod]

Josh,

Where are you located?

[myclone]

My current situation is such that I need to have something I can install and not think about for several years, ie. not have to rebuild. 4 kids under 5 years old = Limited time in the garage!
My foot does tend to advance the throttle forward at any given opportunity so this tranny will see torque..

4L80E hands down with the above said...

BTW, I dunno where youre located but Ive picked up low milage (40-60k) 80Es for 200-350 bucks off of individuals. Forget salvage yards since these trans's are used in HD trucks, delivery vans, etc and they KNOW they can get top dollar for them since those vehicles need to be on the road at all times. What Ive found is keep an eye out for individuals that are parting out wrecked/blown up 2500 series burbs and trucks (contractors especially) since they just know it has a transmission but really dont know what kind or what its worth (least thats what Ive seen).

Example: 96 2wd 80E out of a burb that some kids rich dad had given him which he used to pick up a bunch of his buds, they all got high, then he drove it and them into a pole/ditch at ~45mph. The burb had 54k miles on it.....price for trans/converter=$200

95 4wd 80E from a 3500 dually diesel that a contractor never bothered to check/change the oil.......$150 (hell the whole truck could have been bought for ~$800).

Theres more examples but my point is that if you take your time and do some careful/smart looking you can find 80E's for mere mortal prices.

[Steve Chryssos]

Once you have calibrated a transmission by computer you will never go back.

Think how many hot rods are out there with automatics that shift into high gear by 30mph. Does it have a shift kit? Sure. Other modifications? Sure But did the source modify the shift points for a specific application? Rarely. Final gear ratio, Tire diameter, engine power curve, vehicle specs (i.e. weight), etc. And don't forget throttle position or engine load. All of these variable and more affect how and when a transmission shifts.

Try this experiment: Call ten transmission shops and quiz them. See how many shops really ask for detailed vehicle specs when they try to sell you a transmission. My guess is you will have to contact 50 shops before you reach one who will genuinely calibrate a TH350, TH400, 2004R, 700R4 etc. for your EXACT application. The rest are just pulling identical transmissions off the shelf. How well it works is essentially pot luck. And if you wanted to fine tune that calibration yourself, you would get covered in trans fluid once or twice before you got ir right.

SO........

Given the direct comparison that has been set forth (200 vs 80) and the intended application, the hands down winner is a 4L80E because:

A) The 4L80E was designed from the start for both high torque AND high GVW applications. Very little modification is required for your monster big block 3400lb application. And that's my interpretation of the KISS principle--less mods. Yes, a 200 can be heavily modified to suit this application, but why bother when you can practically dig a 4L80E out of the dirt and slap it in the ass?

B) CALIBRATION, CALIBRATION, CALIBRATION!! I know this is hard to appreciate until you've tried it, but calibrating an electronic transmission is both easy and highly effective. I can't emphasize that enough. How easy? How effective? Calibrating a 4L80E is as easy as setting up the email account in your computer. If you can do that, or know someone who can, you can calibrate a 4L80E to your exact needs. It's way easier than setting up fuel injection. No chassis dyno or diagnostic equipment. Just a laptop and fingertips. And it is MORE reliable than a non electronic transmission. Proper calibration will enhance reliability. How effective is it? Calibrating a 4L80E will completely define and or/change the personality of your hot rod to your exact personal preferences and vehicle specs. The car will respond exactly the way you want it to. Get out of 1st a little sooner while driving around town? No problem. Hold 3rd gear a little longer for on ramps? No problem. Lock up the converter a few mph sooner? Easy. Recalibrate after installing taller rear tires? Piece of cake. You can even have multiple calibrations. One for the strip and one for commuting. Try that with a 200!!

You will absolutely love your custom calibrated 4L80E. I know I'm biased, but I'm also the first to admit that compaitibility with a paddle shifter (and manumatic function in general) is just icing on the cake.

[myclone]

And if you wanted to fine tune that calibration yourself, you would get covered in trans fluid once or twice before you got ir right.

Thats the only thing Id disagree with. To fine tune an off the shelf 700/200 youd get from 99% of the shops you'll get covered in trans fluid a dozen times....if not more.

It sure is nice to do the tuning on an 80E (or a 60E for that matter) while sitting in the drivers seat without even getting your hands dirty.

[ty1295]

I like the 200, but 80e for me budget aside.

I have done 2 syclones now with 80e's and the tranny is just dead nuts killer to work with. Tuning is FUN. People down the cost of the controller but trust me, once you buy it, you will see it as the biggest advantage.

[Josh]

Excellent dialog!
I am located in Upper Michigan, that means 2 hours north of Green Bay, WI (I know...the edge of the earth!). I have had my eyes open for a while now for a low milage 80e with no luck. I do make it down to Chicago a few times a year, but have not really looked that far south yet for an 80e. I would snap up a low milage post 1995 80E in a heartbeat for under 500$ With a few mods, a controler and misc installation parts it would still be under 2500$
Steve- Very insightful info. I really do like the idea of a tranny that will always fit the character of your car no matter what chnages you make.

[DeltaT]

I have my 80E set up so that at 47% TPS (right where the secondaries start to open), all the line pressures and upshift points start going way up. That way you can drive around town with your Mom in the car and not freak her out, nice and comfortable stock-type shifts, let her out, and as soon as you get hard on it, it changes into a Monsta! Headbanging shifts, chirping tires, aggressive downshifts, etc. What a tranny!

Jim

[Roadrage David]

Umm, most big blocks have over 400ft/lb by 1600rpm, right? And it goes up from there. You could drive that V6 all day without putting your foot in it and stay below 200ft/lb. It only delivers the torque when you put your foot way into it and the turbo spools up. No heavy throttle, no turbo spool. The bigblock will consistently deliver more torque to the tranny.


Jim

SO!!!!! if you use your foot to drive around with the same pace on the street as anybody els acselerating the same as anybody els hel parking in ore out like any other ordenary car. would the big block in question use that amound of torque!! i dont thingk so . it would if you put the pedal to the metal, becuase the dyno sheets who show so are calculated onther FULL TROTTLE . no way under normal driving conditions will the tranny acounter so mutch torque, becuase the engine is not getting the fuel to do so . if i drive up to lets say 40 miles per hour at a normal pace and the engine turns 1600 rpm and i hold that speed will my transmission get that 400 lbs feet of torque!!!!! absolutly not...........

[DeltaT]

Hmm, why can a big block tow at such a low rpm then? Why not tow with some blown buzzy little bittie 4-banger at like 6 grand... see which motor lasts longer and can pull you up the side of the Continental Divide without spewing coolant all over.

That's what monster displacement brings to the table. Gobs of torque, anywhere off idle.

Jim