Force EFI?????

[John McIntire]

Is anyone familiar with them, have you dealt with them or know someone who has? www.force-efi.com Thinking about contacting them for an EFI conversion.
John

[TUBED]

John,
If you deal with (Rob) FORCE EFI, listen to what he does and doesn't recommend and study the EFI components available. Some have knocked FORCE EFI in the past for whatever reason, some aren't knowledgeable and want tech support without listening to good instruction from the beginning. EFI is expensive but it's also technical and if the buyer will take the effort to learn the owner is a reputable dealer. My experience with Rob has been good. I hope this helps. Gerald

[pushrod243]

I tried to buy my computer from Rob and he recomended using the fast xfi, injector sizing and fuel system but after 3 weeks he still hadnt ordered anything for me. He assured me he never ran my credit card but hell i just wanted my parts. He seemed a little shorthanded and hard to get on the phone. I ended up getting my setup from a local racer. Just sharing my experience. I had heard good things about him and Miami is only 3 hours away so I wanted to deal with him but got tired of him ducking my calls.

[camcojb]

Stay away from the XFI until they get the bugs out. I've had very good luck with Rob, but I always know what I want and use him to get it.

Jody

[Tino]

I talked with Rob today several times and he seemed to be real helpfull!!! I think i'm gonig to use his BB set up in my 70 Chevelle.

[John McIntire]

just thought i'd update you guys, I've spoken to rob on a couple occasions, for a half hour or more at a time. Very knowledgable guy and very patient and willing to help and educate you. I've decided to go with Accell Gen 7 DFI with a wide band O2 sensor. I'm also going to use the Dual Sync distributor so I can run it sequential.
Just shaing my experience with Rob and Force EFI. I'll keep you guys posted as i progress with my build
John

[ProdigyCustoms]

Rob's MO is he is very smart and knows FI, but is notoriously late. Ask Jagarang, we have been waiting for his FI for 9 months now for a 2 month job. I have heard from others these same timeline issues. I do want to reiterate though he is widely respected for his knowledge.

[camcojb]

just thought i'd update you guys, I've spoken to rob on a couple occasions, for a half hour or more at a time. Very knowledgable guy and very patient and willing to help and educate you. I've decided to go with Accell Gen 7 DFI with a wide band O2 sensor. I'm also going to use the Dual Sync distributor so I can run it sequential.
Just shaing my experience with Rob and Force EFI. I'll keep you guys posted as i progress with my build
John

Good luck on that system, not exactly one of my favorites. Pretty tough to tune.

Jody

[pushrod243]

Frank

I used Cal Hartline for my FAST XFI system. Rob talked me into the FAST over the big stuff but I ended up ordering it from Cal. Cal helped me tune mine and so far we picked up .80 seconds and 9mph in the quarter over the stock ramjet system on my 502. We only got three passes and the first was a baseline. It ran an 11.86 @ 112.6 on the second pass after Cal started tweaking it. He thinks theres still more there but we got rained out. I am having fun with it and trying to learn before I put the turbos on the car. I love the data logging feature of the fast system. Even an idiot like me can tune it with that.

Jody, I was not trying to slam Rob but I was kinda aggravated with his lack of action after he had my credit card # to place my order. He did initially spend time helping me figure out what system was best for my car. And I like the results. I just wish he had ordered it for me. But everything happens for a reason. I got in touch with Cal and he is closer to me and he has a ben a lot of help.

[John McIntire]

Jody,
What would you reccommend? what manufacturer would you go with? Its not set in concrete yet, just that i know a few people running accell gen 7 locally, on some very fast cars, less than 8 sec. 1/4 mile cars. Seems to work for them. Although my car is not a drag car, I was looking to run this set up, this way i have someone to turn to locally.
My only requirements are that it be sequential(dont really know why, maybe someone can educate me a little more on this) and that it has a wideband O2 sensor. And be fairly reasonable to tune, not some off the wall system no one heard of.
Any input would be appreciated,
John

[Hammered]

I am running the Gen7 and have tuned it for start-up, idle and WOT. It's been pretty easy, but there's a lot left to do once I get the car driveable. The wideband makes tuning much easier and allows you to run non-stoich (i.e., a little richer for idle or WOT). The Accel directions are riddled with errors and omissions, but if you have people locally that know how to work with it that would be worth a lot to me.

I'm not partial to the Gen7, but would like to know why Jody thinks it's hard to tune.

[camcojb]

My opinion on the Gen VII comes from playing with it for a couple years. There are many things that run in the background. Like you shut off closed loop and turn off the O2's and they still adjust the A/F. There are many other things going on as well as far as changing one fuel map and it affects several others. Plus they give two different "keys" for tuning. You'll get the regular one and a tuner gets the pro key. That means there's several tables you cannot adjust that you may need. And some of what you can adjust may affect areas you can't get into. The wideband was a huge issue, at least the one supplied by Accel as a plug-in. It would freeze sometimes at a particular A/F and the computer would add/subtract fuel based on a false reading. My dual-sync failed and the dealer I got it from had had many come back bad. In fact I personally know of three dealers that all dropped out of the Accel program. Too many comebacks, too many tuning issues, etc. And I have heard of dozens of dealers that dropped out of the program, these are just tuners I know personally.

The good thing is once tuned it works well. I heard they never got the wideband right, but some do not have the issue for some reason. I was also told by another dealer that they "dumbed down" the tuning on it to make it easier. My opinion is that it is a difficult system for a beginner; the pro tuners couldn't even get it right on a friends car.

I started with a GM computer and a prom burner, then had several FAST systems, then the Gen VII. So I had some tuning experience and still struggled with the Accel. Swapped that system for a FAST and made immediate improvements.

Again, tuned correctly it works well. I just don't think it's for beginners. The Big Stuff 3 is a very nice system, all the features and more of the Gen VII, better widebands and resolution, plus more control. And much easier to tune according to those who've done both.

Jody

[ProdigyCustoms]

Cal Hartline is the real deal. A great tuner and a guy that does what he says he will do. My kind of guy!

[John McIntire]

Jody,
So you'd go with the FAST system, or the Big Stuff 3? Do they also run in sequential? How do they get a cam signal?

[camcojb]

Jody,
So you'd go with the FAST system, or the Big Stuff 3? Do they also run in sequential? How do they get a cam signal?

BS3 is menu-driven for ignitions, sequential, etc. You'd need a dual synch dist from Accel or MSD, or a crank trigger for sequential. Can I ask why you really want sequential?

As far as FAST I'd only use the older system, but being that the BS3 is better and less money than that I'd go BS3. The new FAST XFI is having issues and people are struggling a bit with it.

Jody

[pushrod243]

Jody

What kind of issues are people haing with the xfi's? I was sold on Big Stuff until I talked to Rob and others when I was shopping for my setup. Most swayed me to the fast xfi or the accel. I went for the fast and so far its been pretty easy to use but I havent played with boost or the power adder controls. You are not the only person that has said the accel was difficult to tune. I have lots to learn still. But so far my experience with the XFI has been great.

[John McIntire]

i dint know much about the XFI, I was looking to run sequential because i wanted that finite control over the motor. I wanted to control it like it was 8 individual single cylinder engines. Its only a bone stock 572, with plans maybe in the future for a centrifugal, but maybe I dont need a sequential set up. what are the pro's and cons to a sequential set up?

[camcojb]

Jody

What kind of issues are people haing with the xfi's? I was sold on Big Stuff until I talked to Rob and others when I was shopping for my setup. Most swayed me to the fast xfi or the accel. I went for the fast and so far its been pretty easy to use but I havent played with boost or the power adder controls. You are not the only person that has said the accel was difficult to tune. I have lots to learn still. But so far my experience with the XFI has been great.

That's great. I know Craig at BDS is less than impressed with the XFI and I spoke with some top tuning guys who felt the same. Seems to be having teething problems, being new and all. But it has a lot of potential and if it works good for you that's great. I was warned to avoid it until it gets figured out.
Jody

[camcojb]

i dint know much about the XFI, I was looking to run sequential because i wanted that finite control over the motor. I wanted to control it like it was 8 individual single cylinder engines. Its only a bone stock 572, with plans maybe in the future for a centrifugal, but maybe I dont need a sequential set up. what are the pro's and cons to a sequential set up?

Sequential requires a second trigger which does cost more even if it's built into the distributor. On many systems like FAST sequential is more expensive, but not an issue with Gen VII or BS3. But bank to bank has worked great at 1200+ HP builds so sequential is not a necessity. Not against it by any means but usually not required.

Jody

[John McIntire]

The Big Stuff 3 seems ro be quite a bargain, It also has dual wide band O2 sensors which is a nice feature, like controlling 2 four cylinder engines.
Are you familiar with this set up Jody? I dont really need the sequential set up, just would have been nice. I'm going to see if I can dig up more dirt on the big stuff.
Happy Holidays!
John