Front Suspension questions

[Cunning69]

First, let me say that I know you should stay with one manufacturer for all of your suspension pieces. But through Craigslist and some sales I have the following ready to install:

ridetech UCA’s - extra 2 degrees of positive caster
Hotchkis 2-inch lowering springs
Viking dbl adjustable shocks
CPP AFX spindles - I” taller than stock

Already installed:

Hotchkis 1.5-inch lowering rear springs
Viking dbl adjustable shocks

What I need is a pair of LCA's, if ridetech had one for coil springs I would get it, so I am looking for suggestions for LCA’s. I am cheap so I want to use the pieces I already have.
I am leaning towards:

Global West – stock suspension specs
SpeedTech – additional 4 degrees of caster

Now for the questions:
For street and spirited driving, would 4 more degrees of caster be worthwhile?
Using the SpeedTech, will the wheel still be centered in the wheel well?
Is there something else I should be considering?

Thanks for the help.

[Ron Sutton]

I only have some advice you're asking for.

1. Yes, the Speedtech LCAs will work.
2. The additional caster will improve handling
3. That CPP spindle is F'n HEAVY. Far from ideal for handling.
* P.S. Don't drop that thing on your toe.

[ULTM8Z]

Yes, the extra 4 deg caster is absolutely worth it. I think itll move the wheel back like 1/4 to 3/8 inch or something like that. Hardly noticeable for the amount of improvement.

For me it drastically improved on center feel of the steering as well as tracking and the suspension rebound at high speed.

[Cunning69]

Thanks for the input, I would love to purchase the lightweight Speedtech spindles but they are way out of my budget for now.

I emailed Speedtech about their LCA's and they replied saying that the LCA will give me no additional caster. I have replied back mentioning that their site specifically says, "Built-in additional 4 degrees of caster". If that's really the case, I will go with Global West.

[ULTM8Z]

Someone more knowledgeable can correct me if I’m wrong here… but I think all the LCA’s do is allow the UCA’s to apply the added caster without pushing the wheel back in the wheel well.

With the stock LCA's, when you add caster via the UCA's, the spindle rotates about the lower ball joint. Thus the axle shaft moves backward by an amount proportional to the angle (simple trigonometry).

However, with these aftermarket LCA's, they move the lower ball joint forward at the same time as the upper ball joint moves backwards. I believe what that effectively does is allow the spindle rotation to be roughly about the axle centerline, thus the wheel pretty much says in place rather than moving backwards in the well.

This is why I didn’t go with LCA’s. As long as the rearward movement of the wheel doesn’t cause interference, it’s essentially just a cosmetic issue in terms of how much 1/4-3/8” wheel setback bugs me vs how much extra money it would cost to fix that. To me it wasn’t worth it. You may get some suspension geometry benefits from the LCA’s, but frankly it seemed like diminishing returns considering how much bang for the buck I got just out of the UCA’s alone (considering my car is 100% street driven).

[Cunning69]

ULTM8Z,
I mostly agree with you about the benefits of aftermarket LCA's. It is a lot of money with little return but, in my case, there are two issues. One is that the Viking shocks I have will not fit up through the stock LCA, it would take a lot of grinding to open them up enough and maybe weaken them. Second, after 50 years, how much fatigue is there in the metal? I am considering running autocross occasionally and do not need a LCA failure. Plus, since I am replacing everything in the front suspension, might as well make it all look modern!

Thanks for the info you have provided.

[Cunning69]

All,
I just want to clear this up for any one reading this. Speedtech's website states the following for their lower control arms on first gen camaros:

- Direct bolt-in replacement- no modifications required.
- Reduced unsprung weight and increased strength.
- TIG welded for superior precision and strength..
- Built-in additional 4 degrees of caster
- Greasable flex limiting performance Derlrin Bushings.
- All heavy duty components and accessories.
- Detailed instructions and custom Pro-Touring alignment specs included.
- Works with either standard coil springs or coilover shocks

After emails with Speedtech, here is what they have said:
"It is a mistake on our web page thank you for catching that, I do apologize for the confusion. It's from our uppers that allow more caster and our lowers have increase strength along with giving you better alignment geometry."

I would have been real upset if I had bought and installed these only to find out about that mistake. I think there website has been saying this for a long time, they should really fix it.

[Yanchik]

All,
I just want to clear this up for any one reading this. Speedtech's website states the following for their lower control arms on first gen camaros:

- Direct bolt-in replacement- no modifications required.
- Reduced unsprung weight and increased strength.
- TIG welded for superior precision and strength..
- Built-in additional 4 degrees of caster
- Greasable flex limiting performance Derlrin Bushings.
- All heavy duty components and accessories.
- Detailed instructions and custom Pro-Touring alignment specs included.
- Works with either standard coil springs or coilover shocks

After emails with Speedtech, here is what they have said:
"It is a mistake on our web page thank you for catching that, I do apologize for the confusion. It's from our uppers that allow more caster and our lowers have increase strength along with giving you better alignment geometry."

I would have been real upset if I had bought and installed these only to find out about that mistake. I think there website has been saying this for a long time, they should really fix it.

I believe UMI’s CornerMax Kit has a control arm + spindle combo that allows for up to 10 degrees of caster. Here’s the link.

http://umiperformance.com/catalog/in...oducts_id=1100

[79T/Aman]

I find it odd that all these responses are posted without asking what car it is and year the car is, I would assume from the OP's name it's a 69 F-body?

Let me say this about mixing brand names.... unless parts MUST work together due to fitment, that is not a true statement the parts don't know what sticker is on the other parts, all A-arms do is connect and locate pivot points.
if for example a manufacturer uses spindles with a different KPI angle than stock it would affect some of the other components and the consumer should get everything from the same manufacturer, but when it comes to basic parts it does not mater.

If this car in fact is a 1st gen I would strongly look at lower A-arms that have caster built into the lowers to help center the wheel back in the wheel opening because large front tires can hit the rear of the fender limiting the amount of pos. caster you can dial in.

[F-Body International]

I was thinking about this too Dave (79T/Aman). All these responses without knowledge of the car.

[Cunning69]

Yes, this is for a 69 camaro. I did not mention that b/c I did not think it mattered according to the questions asked, I thought they were fairly generic. After all, yes parts cannot read stickers but also geometry does not care the kind of car it is applied to. Sorry if I am wrong.

79T/Aman, I agree with you about mixing brands, I added that because I did not want everyone replying that I should not be doing it. In your signature you have the website; pro-touring-body.com, that does not come up, is it supposed to be: http://pro-touringf-body.com?
One more thing, why would most companies provide pos caster for the UCA's but not add more to the LCA's to center the wheels in the wheel well like you mentioned?

Thanks for the replies.

[79T/Aman]

Yes, this is for a 69 camaro. I did not mention that b/c I did not think it mattered according to the questions asked, I thought they were fairly generic. After all, yes parts cannot read stickers but also geometry does not care the kind of car it is applied to. Sorry if I am wrong.

79T/Aman, I agree with you about mixing brands, I added that because I did not want everyone replying that I should not be doing it. In your signature you have the website; pro-touring-body.com, that does not come up, is it supposed to be: http://pro-touringf-body.com?
One more thing, why would most companies provide pos caster for the UCA's but not add more to the LCA's to center the wheels in the wheel well like you mentioned?

Thanks for the replies.

thanks for the heads up honestly I don't know why the url is not working.
well actually the geometry is different from car to car, depending on many factors, track width, upper and lower inner pivot point VS outer pivot points and also steering geometry, an A-body VS an 1st gen F-body is also much different even thought hey use the same knuckle/spindle.
Why do some only have positive caster built into the uppers? , because it is easy to do, but to there defense if a company has been doing this for at least the last 15 years they should have stepped up by now, front tires have only gotten bigger, granted those cars only have 7* KPI so there is less need for aggressive positive caster but with large front tires even a moderate amount of pos. caster can cause problems

[brycedrue]

SPC arms advertise 1 additional degree of caster for their lowers.