Manual or Vacuum boosted brakes on 69 Camaro?

[Cdog]

This is going on my driver 69. I picked up a full set of 14” Baer 6 piston front & rears and am about to order a master cylinder.



15/16 for Manual
1” for boosted

Anyone regret going manual on a driver?

[dhutton]

How about a Bosch iBooster out of a Tesla?

[Pedigry]

No regrets on my manual setup but I don't road race or autocross. If I were to do either I would want power assist. But for the street it's great.

[Cdog]

How about a Bosch iBooster out of a Tesla?

Wow! Cool advice. I had no idea this was a thing... I found a dude in Texas that makes a kit for the 2nd get Bosch version.

[Cdog]

No regrets on my manual setup but I don't road race or autocross. If I were to do either I would want power assist. But for the street it's great.

Interesting. Generally manual would be preferred on a track. It's the whole sitting a a light or in traffic with manual brakes was my concern... So you're saying on the street your manual brakes work great?

[dhutton]

Wow! Cool advice. I had no idea this was a thing... I found a dude in Texas that makes a kit for the 2nd get Bosch version.

BBT has an adapter too.
https://www.bbtfabrications.com/fab-...er/c/167746023

[boss_hoss]

Wow! Cool advice. I had no idea this was a thing... I found a dude in Texas that makes a kit for the 2nd get Bosch version.

I got an all in 1 I-booster kit from Classic Performance Products. Price is a little higher than if you sourced all the parts together but it's all-in-one kit and ready to run with 3 wires. Braking power is amazing and the pedal feel is like a brand-new car. I did have to drill one hole higher up on the brake pedal arm to get the leverage ratio right, so the brakes weren't so touchy but now it's awesome, highly recommend. With the I-boosster and big 6 piston Baers on all 4 corners you should have good pedal feel and enough stopping power to put you through the dash if you're not paying attention.


Electric Brake Booster Kit for 1964-74 AFX

[dontlifttoshift]

My CPP experience wasn't great. We ended up taking that booster apart and swapping the control unit and related parts in from an Accord unit and that fixed it.

The problem was if you stabbed the brake pedal we could reliably get 1200 psi at the caliper. If you squeezed the pedal, and kept adding pressure to the pedal, line pressure would top out at approximately 700 psi when the pedal would feel like it bottomed out. I called their tech line and they were no help. Before taking the booster apart, we tried another CPP unit (I had bought two for two different cars) to see if it was just a fluke but both units acted exactly the same. I was also unsuccessful trying to make contact with someone at Bosch. I was hoping someone could at least talk me through the logic so I could better understand what was happening. At this point, all I have is theories involving the travel sensors range and rate of travel and how it relates to the logic in the booster that CPP supplies vs the OE Accord unit. In other words, the calibrations are different.

I was hopeful that using Bosch units, CPP would be capable of delivering a tested and developed product. Some lessons I have to learn over and over again.

We are in process of our 3rd Tesla gen1 iBooster swap. As of right now I am partial to the gen1 units, but we are still learning. I would pay any amount of money to be able to tune these things with a lap top. There is gobs of assist there, and if we could dial it back to work better with the pedal ratios we have and a 1" MC it would be amazing.

The guy from RetroFit innovations is on here occasionally, hopefully he chimes in here and brings some tech about gen1 vs gen2 as I know he has a test rig setup.


To the OP. I like manual brakes but not on something I was going to drive a lot. There hasn't been a manual brake car available new in what, 40 years? Muscle memory is a thing and having to be conscious of your brake pedal in a DD application is dumb. If your engine will support a vacuum booster, the DSE combo is a really good way to go. It works well with the standard ~ 4"/2.5' piston area that the C5/6 used and most aftermarket brakes as well.

[thedugan]

Anybody have a picture of the ibooster installed in a first gen. I am concerned on the clearance with valvecovers, coils, and procharger piping.

[dontlifttoshift]

Tesla Gen1, DSE low angle brackets and the Intekotto adapter. We designed the MC adapter to reclock the Baer remaster.

[boss_hoss]

My CPP experience wasn't great. We ended up taking that booster apart and swapping the control unit and related parts in from an Accord unit and that fixed it.

The problem was if you stabbed the brake pedal we could reliably get 1200 psi at the caliper. If you squeezed the pedal, and kept adding pressure to the pedal, line pressure would top out at approximately 700 psi when the pedal would feel like it bottomed out. I called their tech line and they were no help. Before taking the booster apart, we tried another CPP unit (I had bought two for two different cars) to see if it was just a fluke but both units acted exactly the same. I was also unsuccessful trying to make contact with someone at Bosch. I was hoping someone could at least talk me through the logic so I could better understand what was happening. At this point, all I have is theories involving the travel sensors range and rate of travel and how it relates to the logic in the booster that CPP supplies vs the OE Accord unit. In other words, the calibrations are different.

I was hopeful that using Bosch units, CPP would be capable of delivering a tested and developed product. Some lessons I have to learn over and over again.

We are in process of our 3rd Tesla gen1 iBooster swap. As of right now I am partial to the gen1 units, but we are still learning. I would pay any amount of money to be able to tune these things with a lap top. There is gobs of assist there, and if we could dial it back to work better with the pedal ratios we have and a 1" MC it would be amazing.

The guy from RetroFit innovations is on here occasionally, hopefully he chimes in here and brings some tech about gen1 vs gen2 as I know he has a test rig setup.


To the OP. I like manual brakes but not on something I was going to drive a lot. There hasn't been a manual brake car available new in what, 40 years? Muscle memory is a thing and having to be conscious of your brake pedal in a DD application is dumb. If your engine will support a vacuum booster, the DSE combo is a really good way to go. It works well with the standard ~ 4"/2.5' piston area that the C5/6 used and most aftermarket brakes as well.

Thats a very interesting anecdote. Granted I haven't tested the line pressure so I can't say what mine is doing but I haven't noticed any changes/difference in braking ability out of the box with mine. I think ultimately this is par for the course for CPP. Decent value, Mixed quality/results and not great customer service.

I'd guess you are right though in that the ibooseters from junkyard units are set to specific OEM specs and probably what CPP is using is off the shelf ibooster units and who knows what the default programming is. Like you I'd love to have the ability to modify the parameters for a little more tunability. As is though I was able to get the feel I wanted by flipping the offset adapter on the pushrod that comes with the CPP kit to adjust my pedal ratio. It gave me more pedal travel and made the set up less touchy

[Cdog]

Thanks all for your input. Great thread so far.

I spoke to Jeff Pollard yesterday at retro fit innovations. I'm going to buy his Gen 2 set up for my 69 Camaro and pick up the 1-1/8 Baer MC from Pro touring store while they're on sale.

Jeff's test mule is his personal 69 Camaro. If you go to his FB & Instagram you see how it fits. It approximately the same size as the DSE 9" booster/MC combo.

Years ago I mentioned on here how much I like the feel of my Audi Q7 brakes with the big brembos. Funny speaking with Jeff he says that's one of the most common comparisons. If it's close I will be very happy.

Retro fit innovations paints their I boosters with an epoxy black. The GEN 2 is a 3 wire set up over a 4 wire on the G1.

Now I need to find a deal on a DSE subframe... Cheers!

[Pedigry]

yeah, they work great on the street. Problem with the track is constant heavy braking, the pedal just wears you out over time. Autocross wouldn't be as bad because your track time is limited, but on a road coarse, where sessions run 1/2 hour, I would want power assist.

[SPG]

Not too helpful for your question, but I also have a gen 2 ibooster from a honda accord in my 2nd gen, don't have any clearence issues. Got the adapter plate from back bay customs https://backbaycustoms.com/

Pretty simple setup, just 3 wires like others have said. No clearance issues with my LT4

[dontlifttoshift]

Thats a very interesting anecdote. Granted I haven't tested the line pressure so I can't say what mine is doing but I haven't noticed any changes/difference in braking ability out of the box with mine. I think ultimately this is par for the course for CPP. Decent value, Mixed quality/results and not great customer service.

The only reason I tested line pressure was I notice a pretty large discrepancy in braking and it seemed intermittent. It took me some miles to pinpoint what was causing the difference and that it was the rate of pedal application. That's when we checked line pressure.

It's a weird problem and I wish I had more information as to what is causing it.

Jeff @ Retrofit, if you want, I will happily send this other CPP unit to you if you want throw it on your test stand. I am curious if you get the same results I had in the car.

[JPnTX]

Thanks all for your input. Great thread so far.

I spoke to Jeff Pollard yesterday at retro fit innovations. I'm going to buy his Gen 2 set up for my 69 Camaro and pick up the 1-1/8 Baer MC from Pro touring store while they're on sale.

Jeff's test mule is his personal 69 Camaro. If you go to his FB & Instagram you see how it fits. It approximately the same size as the DSE 9" booster/MC combo.

Years ago I mentioned on here how much I like the feel of my Audi Q7 brakes with the big brembos. Funny speaking with Jeff he says that's one of the most common comparisons. If it's close I will be very happy.

Retro fit innovations paints their I boosters with an epoxy black. The GEN 2 is a 3 wire set up over a 4 wire on the G1.

Now I need to find a deal on a DSE subframe... Cheers!

Thank you for your order! I'm comfortable you'll be pleased with the result. Don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions!

[JPnTX]

The only reason I tested line pressure was I notice a pretty large discrepancy in braking and it seemed intermittent. It took me some miles to pinpoint what was causing the difference and that it was the rate of pedal application. That's when we checked line pressure.

It's a weird problem and I wish I had more information as to what is causing it.

Jeff @ Retrofit, if you want, I will happily send this other CPP unit to you if you want throw it on your test stand. I am curious if you get the same results I had in the car.

I'd be glad to but unfortunately the boosters that CPP sells have a unique mounting bolt pattern and are clocked differently. They won't fit onto any of our test equipment.

[Chevy Guy]

I got an all in 1 I-booster kit from Classic Performance Products. Price is a little higher than if you sourced all the parts together but it's all-in-one kit and ready to run with 3 wires. Braking power is amazing and the pedal feel is like a brand-new car. I did have to drill one hole higher up on the brake pedal arm to get the leverage ratio right, so the brakes weren't so touchy but now it's awesome, highly recommend. With the I-boosster and big 6 piston Baers on all 4 corners you should have good pedal feel and enough stopping power to put you through the dash if you're not paying attention.


Electric Brake Booster Kit for 1964-74 AFX

I just ordered one from CPP for my 79' TransAm, Im hoping it goes as well as yours. Im street driven only.

[79 Camaro]

My 67 Nova project I used C5 front discs and 2002 Camaro rear discs. Manual master sized with help from Tobin at KORE3.com.
Worked very well. A bit of adjustment to the adj prop valve at first. Never had to touch it again. Yes you had to push a bit harder.
Or on my 66 Mustang I used a hydro boost from Hydratech. Again C5 front discs and 2002 Camaro rear discs. Worked great.

[Chevy Guy]

Got the kit e-booster and installed it - Im pretty happy.

Thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...15#post1402315