What will we see in January?

[DeepBlue68]

Lookin' good!! That sketch is pretty sweet! Definitely not as retro as the Mustang IMO, as someone above said would be likely.

[JohnnyGMachine]

I personally think GM needs a marketing angle on the Camaro, something like what Ford has done with Shelby and Bullitt Stangs and how Mopar Markets the Hemi. I don't know if this is it or not but Steve Chryssos and I were kickin this idea around. How about a limited edition version like a Yenko Edition or like Steve mentioned a Motion 5th Gen Camaro? I think that'd be killer. Maybe even do a Penske Edition and they get a modern T/A Camaro theme with side exit exhaust, wheels, paint, etc...
C'mon GM, get those marketing gears turnin'!

Just my 2 cents anyways,
John

[67Sally]

I personally think GM needs a marketing angle on the Camaro, something like what Ford has done with Shelby and Bullitt Stangs and how Mopar Markets the Hemi. I don't know if this is it or not but Steve Chryssos and I were kickin this idea around. How about a limited edition version like a Yenko Edition or like Steve mentioned a Motion 5th Gen Camaro? I think that'd be killer. Maybe even do a Penske Edition and they get a modern T/A Camaro theme with side exit exhaust, wheels, paint, etc...
C'mon GM, get those marketing gears turnin'!

Just my 2 cents anyways,
John

John, I totally agree with the marketing angle that you and Steve are talking about. This type of thing woulg really fuel the fire.
W.

[Matt]

No rat motors.....but there's more ways to stuff air in an engine than cubic inches....

Are you just pulling our chain?

[Doug Harden]

Are you just pulling our chain?

Nope....remember that blue Z06 that everyone "thought" was the infamous "Blue Devil"? But turned out to be a 6.2L supercharged variant......

[Ralph LoGrasso]

With HP estimates of 450 and 500 being thrown about, as well as drooling over the LS7, I have to wonder about the Corvette ceiling again. Chevrolet never wanted the Camaro to be within performance striking distance of the Corvette - will it be any different now? As exciting as it is to look forward to January, it sure is hard to listen to all the reports of GM falling on hard times. I really hope this happens - I'm all over selling my daily driver for a modern F body!

Hopefully they'll just under rate the cars like they did the 4th gen F-bodies. Besides the handling, there's not much of a difference in straight line performance between an '02 Corvette and an '02 Camaro. We're talking a couple tenths in the 1/4. (Z06 need not apply).

The car WILL have IRS (it is 2005 after-all...not all of us are drag racers)...

I'm not a drag racer at all, but in my opinion IRS complicates a lot of things (as well as increases cost), and I'd suspect a lot of the potential buyers of these cars will be looking to use them primarily for drag racing. The number of 4th gens that are drag raced to auto-x or road raced has to be atleast 4 to 1, judging by what I've seen on message boards. 3-link solves all .

Also, some of the stuff being mentioned here like aluminum / light-weight body panels, etc. is already present on the 4th gen, so hopefully this will carry right over the the 5th and there will be no guess work involved. The only painted body panels on a 4th gen that are metal are the quarter panels and rockers. Hood, fenders, doors, sail panel, etc. are all composite. Lets hope Chevy can keep the weight down on the 5th. A supercharged 6.2 (or was it 6.4L?) would be amazing. Or, as I said in my first post, just a regular 'ol SC'd LS2.

[Damn True]

Follow the path of the Solstice, MAKE IT LIGHT!

IMO the market segment that is buying the rustang is no longer broad enough to support three marques (GM FoMoCo and Daimler/Chrysler). They need to attract people that are currently looking at high performance imports. As far as marketing goes, they'd be well served to work up a Speed Challenge, GT3 or similar version then go out and spank some Bimmers, Porsches, Nissans and of course rustangs. Race it (and WIN) before they release it!
They need to show that the new car is a legit world class performance car, not just a one trick pony musclecar. They need to attract buyers who are looking at Nissan 350s, Infinity G35s, 325i, M3.

[Doug Harden]

....I'm not a drag racer at all, but in my opinion IRS complicates a lot of things (as well as increases cost), and I'd suspect a lot of the potential buyers of these cars will be looking to use them primarily for drag racing. The number of 4th gens that are drag raced to auto-x or road raced has to be atleast 4 to 1, judging by what I've seen on message boards. 3-link solves all .
.......

Actually, the number of people who buy Camaros that don't race at all FAR out number those who do...that and the platform this car will be on is IRS only.

Besides, it'll give it one more option up on the Mustang.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Actually, the number of people who buy Camaros that don't race at all FAR out number those who do...that and the platform this car will be on is IRS only.

Besides, it'll give it one more option up on the Mustang.

Very true, and I thought about that when posting, but I was directing my statement more towards the performance minded enthusiasts, rather than the general V6 buying public. Like I said before though, as long as it looks good, is fast and reasonably priced-- the rest is simply details...

[Jim Nilsen]

Don't any of you remember the add for the Camaro when it first came out? It was called the "poor mans Corvette" for a reason, it had as much power and it was meant to race. What it didn't have was what it did have so to speak. It had a back seat,more weight somewhat, more comfort,more choices of of performance or lack of, and more people who could afford it. All of which made it slower,less racy and not as top end stylish as was obtainable ,all of which made it less money to make.

I really like McBrides sketch and think it could be a winner if it has everything to match the Vette with. If you can't interchange the engine components with the Vette it will be a dead car. If it will be interchangable power with the Vette it will guarantee that anyone with a bigger pocket book can have a Camaro that can kick a Mustangs butt and hang with a Vette yet not be one. I remember hearing about guys putting Vette this and Vette that parts on Camaros for years and we are still doing it today so if it isn't what is going to happen in our future it will be a dead car for it's whole future.

It's not what the Camaro will be when it comes out that will make it a great car it is what you will be able to make it that will make it a great car. The Mustang retro thing will fade just like Mustangs faded in my life. I was a diehard mustang guy for years until I found out that you could make a Camaro into a better performer with Vette parts off of the shelf.

So it had better be a poormans Corvette or it will be a dead car to start with. I hope someone is listening and remebering the history repeating itself is what retro is all about and not just styling but the performance transformation capability that got us all back at this discussion.

I remember back in 65 when everyone was saying that GM didn't have a clue as what we all wanted. So if they can just look back and lather ,rinse and repeat they just might make it. But they just have to not miss what it was they were really doing at the roots of it all because Rogaine and Grecian formula just won't work!!!

Jim Nilsen

[Matt]

Marketing is a different game now. You have to make the public want what you have, you have to create buzz, you have to use word of mouth, and you have to wow people on their first go with your product.
C5R's win races, have nostalgia, and that sells cars.
Subaru's move to bring the WRX here was genius after the Gran Turismo Series helped hype it stateside, and they win races. That sells cars
Mustangs have nostalgia, and brand loyalty. That sells cars.
Dodge plays it's only 2 tricks, some impressive styling, and the hemi buzzward.
SUV's ride the zeitgeist, that sold them... until fuel wrecked them.

If Chevy can create buzz, win races, get plugged in pop culture, and ride the resurgence in pony/muscle car love, it'll sell cars.

As long as you make an effort to please them, the diehards aren't going away, you can't pander solely to the educated and appreciative, you have to market to the same guy that's tell you his lx7 motor in his crown vic is fast, because he has no effin clue what he's talking about.

[gchandler]

You have to make it appeal to women. Women seem to like the mustang, current and last model. I can't say the same about the Camaro. Females have input into a dispropotionatly high number of new car purchase decisions.

A new camaro would also need to be better suited for use around town. The 4th gens have a lot of overhang, low ground clearance, poor visibility. These are issues that would need to be addressed if you want to build sales.

The way I see it people buy a camaro as a second of third car, they buy a mustang as their only car. Until the camaro can be purchased as an "only car" its sales will not even come close to those of the mustang.

[trapin]

As far as marketing goes, they'd be well served to work up a Speed Challenge, GT3 or similar version then go out and spank some Bimmers, Porsches, Nissans and of course rustangs. Race it (and WIN) before they release it! They need to show that the new car is a legit world class performance car, not just a one trick pony musclecar. They need to attract buyers who are looking at Nissan 350s, Infinity G35s, 325i, M3.

That is an EXCELLENT idea. Well thought out. If you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. After January I am going to e-mail that idea to Lutz (seriously...we're allowed to do that). He always welcomes input from employees regarding our products. Johnny...I will pass on yours and Steve's idea as well.

[Steve1968LS2]

I dunno. the mustang has always outsold gm's offerings combined. Becuase they build the car to stand alone as a bread and butter car and then "build it up" for the enthusiasts. Gm "dumbs a car down." Designs the car as a Z/28 and then reverse engineers it. Lets face it. The Z car was better and faster but didn't sell as well. The only logical reason would have to be design.

The new design is outstanding. Even if Chevy and pontiac had a competitor, the stang would still rock. Its all about how that nostalgia is captured in the new design.
Mike desmond did a concept drawing of a modern camaro a few years ago. Still to this day, I say it is the way to go. I'll be shocked, SHOCKED, if GM doesnt go with a "retro" verson, and failing to do so will kill the GM we know. It would be the final insult, salt in the wound, or whatever to millions of car buying enthusiasts.

The mustang outsold the Camaro because of sales of their V6 model.. the 4th fbody suffered from bad ergonomics like the incredibly LONG doors and low floor that made getting in and out of the car harder, unlike the mustang that was more like a corola and easier to live with as a daily driver/commuter.

The new mustang is a great car and has zero competition.. both plusses for Ford.

In January we WILL see a new Camaro concept card.. of this I am 99% sure since we got an invite to the unveiling at COBO hall. If GM does it right a new Camaro will sell like hotcakes, if they do it right and that is always the big question. It needs to have the performance but it also needs to have some practicality as a V6 version to make the sales numbers. It also needs to be affordable with a base V8 model somewhere around 24k and an all-out SS version up near 30K.. v6 models as close to 20k as possible..

As for the challenger.. I will believe a two door, manual shifted Challenger when I see it.. Diamler is not known for thier love of manual gearboxs (viper excluded)..

[Steve1968LS2]

You have to make it appeal to women. Women seem to like the mustang, current and last model. I can't say the same about the Camaro. Females have input into a dispropotionatly high number of new car purchase decisions.

A new camaro would also need to be better suited for use around town. The 4th gens have a lot of overhang, low ground clearance, poor visibility. These are issues that would need to be addressed if you want to build sales.

Dead on.. look how many V6 mustangs are in the rental fleets.. a 4th gen Camaro is not a "womans car".. they were hard to live with. Unfortunatly for a car to sell lots of units it has to be made to appeal to the masses and not enthusiasts. Thats why its important that they have a good base then added on performance packages (not just sticker kits)..

January should be interesting!

[TonyL]

basicly the same point steve. another way of putting it, is "Design the camaro for the masses, first. Then pump it up for guys like us." `

If they make the base model desireable, functional, and practical in the price department. they will have a winner. If they just produce an all out mustang beater that is only capable of of doing "speed" well. It'll tank.

It needs to be just as happy taking the kids to school and commuting to work as it is blowing the doors off a mustang from a stoplight.

[Steve1968LS2]

I don't know if somebody has already posted it.. but the latest spy shot of the new challenger..



Looks like GM is the winner so far in the "keep the car a secret" competition.. lol

[rob07002]

Santa Claus: Ho! Ho! Ho! Well Robbie, why don't you sit on Santa's lap and tell
him what you want for Christmas.

Rob: Ok Santa, I want a new Camaro to be wicked cool looking have a 450+
hp v8 offerd with a 6speed, and be affordable. I want to be able to get
it in various trim packages with lots of options I can check off
individually. I also want cool color choices and the appropriate stripes.
Most of all Santa I want to be able to kick a Mustangs a$$.

Santa Claus: Whoa! Robbie, thats a pretty tall order.....Have you been a good boy?

Rob: I sure have Santa, well as long as you don't count spending every dime I
have on my car....Oh, yeah and then there's my alcoholism.....

[Damn True]

As for the challenger.. I will believe a two door, manual shifted Challenger when I see it.. Diamler is not known for thier love of manual gearboxs (viper excluded)..

That's because they cling to the luxo-side of the market.

Zee manual gear zelector iz for ze BMW unt zee auto (wit perhas one of zoes nifty tiptronic zelectorz) iz for ze Daimler. Unt zat iz zat.

Id be surprised too if the challenge wound up with a manual. Probably some kind of manumatic thing. Hey, maybe Steveo can get them to spec Shrifters on them?

[BuddyP]

Actually, the number of people who buy Camaros that don't race at all FAR out number those who do...that and the platform this car will be on is IRS only.

just heard the concept may be based on a stretched Kappa.