Looking for comparisons for 2nd Gen Upper Control Arms...

[JoshStratton]

Does anyone have any big reasons for choosing one over the other:



Global West vs SpeedTech?

Right now I am leaning towards the SpeedTech.

[zbugger]

I'm waiting on the DSE pieces to come out. I'd say it's mainly going to be a cost issue, but I'm not one to talk. Supposedly the DSE parts are due for release in the next couple of months.

[10Seconds]

I have heard that the Speedtech people are tough to deal with and have left a few people hanging for a long time waiting for their stuff. However, I have not heard anything bad about the product itself, just their crummy service.

However, I went with GW for my Trans Am and was pleased with both the quality and service. I talked with DSE, but they were months away from picking up the project when I needed them so it was not really even a consideration for me.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

IMHO, I would go with the GW.

[JoshStratton]

So between the SpeedTech, GW, and DSE it is mostly about cost? Any differences in the quality that anyone knows of? I know it sounds korny, but I am not too crazy about that goofy huge label on the GWs. However, they look awful sturdy.

[David Pozzi]

When comparing prices, be sure to compare the GW arms including their shaft and delrin bushings. I put a pair of GW arms on our 73 Camaro and the stock shaft is too short for their arms, you need to buy the GW shafts too. I also have a pair of the ST first gen uppers, and they look pretty good.

I'd say the GW and Speed Tech are pretty close to the same, but ST are mig welded and GW are Tig welded which is a plus for GW, but I don't think mig welded arms are that much of a negative.

ST had a lot of growth earlier this year and was having trouble keepiing up. GW seems to be doing better at filling orders this year compared to last year.

Either way, I'd call and ask if the parts are in stock before you order. If they have to be made, it can take months.

St is made in Canada, GW in the USA, and they pioneered tubular upper arms.

I would expect the DSE arms to be very nice, but probably more expensive.
David

[bretcopsey]

Depending upon what you are trying to accomplish by switching to tubular arms, there is also the http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp...qx/Product.htm route and the adjustable arms that Marcus carries too http://www.scandc.com/spcarms.htm

[BonzoHansen]

Depending upon what you are trying to accomplish by switching to tubular arms, there is also the http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp...qx/Product.htm route and the adjustable arms that Marcus carries too http://www.scandc.com/spcarms.htm

I’m guessing those are more race-only units, but like you said, it depends on intentions. Neither has rebound bumpers. I’m not sure either would make it through the first pothole. Although SC&C says theirs can be used in the street. I hope Marcus chimes in here.

I was leaning towards speedtechs for my 77, but it appears there is a GW group purchase at nastyz28 (through ron’s race shop perhaps) that might sway me that way, and the GW site had some sales on too. Plus I will be using their D-A-L bushings for my lower CAs, so I may opt for one-stop shopping. I need to make a decision in enough time to have them in my hands March 1.

I’ve yet to really hear problems or major differences between ST and GW, so price may actually sway me. I think yody mentioned ST’s shafts are stainless. I know he uses them.

[joeljet]

as far as the big gw sticker on the control arms its just a sticker and comes off very easily. i thought they were a little tacky myself. anyone who looks and knows will recognize them for what they are. i dont do free advertising. ps i got mine through a gp with rons a little while back and it didnt take long. he was the cheapest i found. please dont ask how i like them they're not even on yet, but they sure look pretty sitting in the living room floor with the baer sport setup.

[JoshStratton]

Ok. Let me ask a silly question. What, exactly is the benefit gained from these over stock...other than looking really cool, being much lighter and reducing bumpsteer.

Originally I planned to set up like this:

Front
•Global West del-a-lum bushings for lower control arms
•SPeedtech/GW tubular upper control arms
•Hothckis 1 3/8 hollow front sway
•Bilsteins
•Hothckis small block coils
•Subframe connectors

Rear
•Hotchkis 3-leaf
•No rear sway
•Bilsteins

I intend to use this car as more of a daily driver/long distance hauler and think I would like a softer suspension than this. It probably will end up being more of a poser than a track car. What if I used a new set of stock springs and dearched leafs instead of the hotchkis and a good set of shocks that ride smoother than the Blisteins. Will the rest of the suspension be a waste of money?

[79ZED]

I've seen the GW ones and the ST upper A arms. can't say I notice much, if any difference in quality, both are great pieces. I bought the ST ones, since they are local to me, but I purchased them through Gasoline Alley, their West Coast distributor. These guys also ship across Canada and the U.S. Great service. You can check them pout and call them for availability before buying. See them at http://www.gasalley1.com/

John

[JoshStratton]

Hey that is a cool site. I really like the cartoon cars...

[1bluaddict]

I went with the fatman 2 inch narrowed setup so I could run my 285/35/18's on the front and I have been pleased with the fit and the space extra I saved for them big meats, Enjoy Claude.

[David Pozzi]

Ok. Let me ask a silly question. What, exactly is the benefit gained from these over stock...other than looking really cool, being much lighter and reducing bumpsteer.

Originally I planned to set up like this:

Front
•Global West del-a-lum bushings for lower control arms
•SPeedtech/GW tubular upper control arms
•Hothckis 1 3/8 hollow front sway
•Bilsteins
•Hothckis small block coils
•Subframe connectors

Rear
•Hotchkis 3-leaf
•No rear sway
•Bilsteins

I intend to use this car as more of a daily driver/long distance hauler and think I would like a softer suspension than this. It probably will end up being more of a poser than a track car. What if I used a new set of stock springs and dearched leafs instead of the hotchkis and a good set of shocks that ride smoother than the Blisteins. Will the rest of the suspension be a waste of money?

Your list looks good.
You really don't need tubular lower arms if you will use stock type springs, the arms don't improve geometry and both upper and lower arms are equal to, or slightly heavier than stock arms.

Proper tubular arms allow more positive caster, the wheels will have more neg camber when you are in a turn with this mod. I'ts easy to get 5 deg positive caster with the GW arms, the ST should do about the same, perhaps slightly less built in caster than GW, the ST arms might require a couple of extra shims on the front bolt compared to GW.

If your roads are fairly smooth the Hotchkis springs are fine. They are aprox double the rate of stock. GW may have something in the 400 - 500 range for the front which would be a little more streetable if your roads are rough. The rear rates for GW and Hotchkis are in the 170 range and if you have much horsepower, that's what is needed.

The thicker front anti-roll bar really helps keep the car level, which helps keep the tires flat on the road and increases cornering traction.
David

[JoshStratton]

If your roads are fairly smooth the Hotchkis springs are fine. They are aprox double the rate of stock. GW may have something in the 400 - 500 range for the front which would be a little more streetable if your roads are rough. The rear rates for GW and Hotchkis are in the 170 range and if you have much horsepower, that's what is needed.

Actually I live in the country, so the car will see a lot of crappy roads and dead animals, as well as decent streets in the city. Can you tell what the typical rate for stock springs is?

[David Pozzi]

Stock front coils on first gen and second gen Camaros are around 320. Just remember the tires back then were low grip and more narrow so modern tires can generate much more grip and cause more braking dive and cornering lean.

I think I mentioned the tuner coils are in the high 600 range. Since you aren't looking for hard core handling, you could go with a spring in the 400 to 500 range. The aftermarket rear leaf's are 1.5" drop so you need front coils that will lower a bit to match, that alone reduces suspension travel available and requires a somewhat stiffer spring.

[Marcus SC&C]

BozoH,the Speedway arms ARE racing pieces. They`re inexpensive,non rebuildable and considered consumables by circle track racers.
SC&C/SPC arms are NOT race only pieces! They`re modular,rebuildable (without removing them from the car!) and available with either high durometer rubber bushings (called Street Shafts) or steel bushed with grease fittings (sometimes refered to as "race bushings"). Note that we have daily driven cars with over 30,000 miles on the "race" bushings with no measurable wear. That includes daily driving in rain and even snow! The ride is actually very nice with them too because they`re extremely smooth.
As David said upper arms alone can only allow changes in static alignment which can in turn enhance handling. To make really meaningful changes in geometry you need to alter the pickup (or pivot) points of the suspension in the vertical plane. That`s why we bundle specific adj. upper arms with our modular tall ball joints and tie rod ends to make up the Street Comp series. Marcus SC&C

[JoshStratton]

Awesome David! Your information helped out a TON! Thanks so much!

[BonzoHansen]

Marcus, I hoped you’d chime in. Let me think out loud while I avoid work. So you feel there is no concern using these on a street car, with no bump stops? What happens if you hit a pothole or otherwise compress the suspension, or even the car hanging on a lift, etc.? And with the taller ball joints, these are still direct bolt-ins for 2nd gen Camaros? I can’t imagine wearing them out if you are getting 30k with no wear. It will take me years to get to 30k miles. Do the greaseable racing bushings make any noise?

Many thanks for your time.

[79T/Aman]

I put over 70,000 miles on solid steel bushings IMO they are the best alternative to del-a-lums.