Carbon Fiber

[gabbett1]

I've noticed there are a lot of Carbon Fiber parts out there for 69 Camaro's and got me thinking. I wonder how many people would be interested in/buy a Carbon Fiber body. If it were available, is it something that people would consider?

[raustinss]

Sure price would be thru the roof ....go check out what ring brothers want for a "complete" carbon fiber Mustang.... 40,000$

[gabbett1]

I don't know... maybe. I bet it could be done for a better price than what Ring Brothers is asking. From my experience all of their stuff is uber expensive.

[raustinss]

lol yes its pricey but is top quality ....yes you can get cheaper but it might be crap. perfect example i have a custom carbon guy doing fenders for my chevelle. now im in canada and hes in the states but when it is all said and done each fender will end up being around 16-1800 EACH ...X2 plus they still need to be fit,primed,painted,polished . so to ask 40 ish when molds need to be made and such really isnt that bad

[gabbett1]

lol yes its pricey but is top quality ....yes you can get cheaper but it might be crap. perfect example i have a custom carbon guy doing fenders for my chevelle. now im in canada and hes in the states but when it is all said and done each fender will end up being around 16-1800 EACH ...X2 plus they still need to be fit,primed,painted,polished . so to ask 40 ish when molds need to be made and such really isnt that bad

Eh... I've dealt with a bit of carbon fiber myself on the airplane side. Parts HAVE to be high quality for aircraft. I've also seen the Ring Brothers carbon fiber body up close at SEMA. It is just a shell. No inner structure or anything. It's way over priced IMO. Their construction process is a resin infusion (I'm assuming because I noticed several spots of bridging where the fabric didn't reach the corner and it's just filled with resin). I know that you can do prepreg for similar cost if you know what you are doing and have a much higher quality part.

[gabbett1]

Sorry, I should clarify. I'm not trying to say that the Ring Brothers don't have a quality product. Just that there isn't as much of the unibody that I would expect to see for the cost.

[raustinss]

The parts they sell are meant to go over the "deskined"she'll of a Mustang from what I recall.... Referring to a Jay Leno interview about the car and there was a comment or two about a steel structure and floors ...just a carbon skin. Regardless I don't think you could mold and produce a product in North America at a monetary rate that would appeal to everyone or else you would have already seen it

[gabbett1]

The parts they sell are meant to go over the "deskined"she'll of a Mustang from what I recall.... Referring to a Jay Leno interview about the car and there was a comment or two about a steel structure and floors ...just a carbon skin. Regardless I don't think you could mold and produce a product in North America at a monetary rate that would appeal to everyone or else you would have already seen it

For everyone, no. But I would think that people would be interested if you could do it for a reasonable cost.

[raustinss]

Dog chasing it's own tail..... Yes you are right at a reasonable price ....try to find it .....you will...and it will be crap from China and not fit ! OR IT WOUKD HAVE HAPPENED ALREADY . Trust me you aren't the first person to think this

[gabbett1]

Doesn't hurt to look into it. Maybe the other people couldn't find someone willing to not price gouge them on the product. Maybe they couldn't find someone that could make the product as a quality part. Who knows...

[TheJDMan]

Doesn't hurt to look into it. Maybe the other people couldn't find someone willing to not price gouge them on the product. Maybe they couldn't find someone that could make the product as a quality part. Who knows...

You're just being argumentative now son. Go find some one to build you a body and then come back and tell us all about it.

[gabbett1]

You're just being argumentative now son. Go find some one to build you a body and then come back and tell us all about it.

That was not my intent. I was trying to mention possible scenarios as to why it's not available already. Can someone show me examples of people that have tried and failed?

[raustinss]

I am? I was just posing possible scenarios. How is that being argumentative? I thought the guy telling me that it can't be done or else it already would have been done is more argumentative but I didn't take offense to what he had to say.

Think maybe you might have been taking my posts out of context? Because I wasn't upset or arguing with anyone here. The tone of your post really surprises me.

Im not offended nor am i trying to be argumentative i felt like i had to say the same thing more than twice .

So i will do my best to make this my last post here .... yes i think its a spectacular idea . Here's my endorsement giver' and ,yes please report back here when you do find someone who can do it for a dirt cheap price
Reasons why i think it would have been done before ......Ring brothers...Munnessy speed...Anvil...Ultra-carbon...Seibon....Albert ? something.
These are all people i can think of that produce carbon goodies for vehicles and yet only one has come close (and i know there are many others ) . The before mentioned Ring Brothers are the only ones ,who also were the ones i said wanted 40,000 for their kit (which when you consider its molded and produced down there in America and what your getting isnt that bad of a price) . If someone wanted to do it they would have, you are talking about the most popular pro-touring platform after all and not some weird odd ball like a 75 Chevelle. Money and lots of it ,pick a company which can,will and,does build their own high dollar cars. Detroit speed, ridetech, rad rides by Troy, Foose, Steilow, Ironworks...Fesler cmon follow me here again NOBODY has . Anyone of these people or companies could have . I spent almost 2 years to find out FOR SURE that there was nobody making carbon fenders for 1970 Chevelle. i have some being made they will be the only set in the world, the molds will belong to the builder and said they may do a production run which in time would get more out in the public eye as well as lowering the price . I even put the price im paying out there and risking looking like a fool for paying that much,to show you how much custom stuff can cost . When i add that with carbon inner fenders, fender extensions, bumpers and filler panels, hood , trunk lid . I will be well north of 10,000 and guess what i still dont have doors ,quarters nor roof . factor molding and producing i could easily see 20-25. Now back to ring brothers , add the costs of its a custom wide body,profit margins , marketing etc . I really dont see how you think it could retain top quality and be cheaper . please feel free to chime back with what you feel an ideal price would be id be interested in seeing it .

To put it in the simplest write these tree things in a triangular fashion then draw arrows between them in a circular fashion this will be your answer
supply
demand
cost

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

I cant imagine the price for a whole body being "not so expensive" as I have produced a kit of Carbon Fiber parts for the first gen and ALL of my parts are made here in USA.. down the street matter of fact.. and my price JUST to have them made before they are offered on the market is bananas.. I wish I could sell my parts cheaper.. but the fact that the parts I make are very good quality leaves me at a high mark..

And I cant see something like a Ring Bros not being better than who I use so Im sure that the price point is worth it..


And I bet there are guys who say "I can do it cheaper than the RBs".. but I know they are taking a BIG hit to do so.. maybe just to prove they could.. but comfortably able to make you a nice CF part..

It just aint cheap..

[raustinss]

I cant imagine the price for a whole body being "not so expensive" as I have produced a kit of Carbon Fiber parts for the first gen and ALL of my parts are made here in USA.. down the street matter of fact.. and my price JUST to have them made before they are offered on the market is bananas.. I wish I could sell my parts cheaper.. but the fact that the parts I make are very good quality leaves me at a high mark..

And I cant see something like a Ring Bros not being better than who I use so Im sure that the price point is worth it..


And I bet there are guys who say "I can do it cheaper than the RBs".. but I know they are taking a BIG hit to do so.. maybe just to prove they could.. but comfortably able to make you a nice CF part..

It just aint cheap..

Thank you ...almost needed some beer n drugs after banging my head against the wall that much
Cheers fellas

[HellPhish89]

Carbon fiber manufacturing is expensive. Car companies have done crazy things like resorting to weaving the carbon thread into the parts they want. Chevy, Ford, Mercedes, and others have had certain alliances at points in time to try to figure out a less expensive way to manufacture carbon/composite parts.

Of course there is also the mold making.. which is also expensive.

IE:


Lay ups can also be quite complicated:



From there.. most higher end manufacturers are going to be using pre-preg carbon and will 'cook' the parts in an autoclave.

[gabbett1]

Im not offended nor am i trying to be argumentative i felt like i had to say the same thing more than twice .

So i will do my best to make this my last post here .... yes i think its a spectacular idea . Here's my endorsement giver' and ,yes please report back here when you do find someone who can do it for a dirt cheap price
Reasons why i think it would have been done before ......Ring brothers...Munnessy speed...Anvil...Ultra-carbon...Seibon....Albert ? something.
These are all people i can think of that produce carbon goodies for vehicles and yet only one has come close (and i know there are many others ) . The before mentioned Ring Brothers are the only ones ,who also were the ones i said wanted 40,000 for their kit (which when you consider its molded and produced down there in America and what your getting isnt that bad of a price) . If someone wanted to do it they would have, you are talking about the most popular pro-touring platform after all and not some weird odd ball like a 75 Chevelle. Money and lots of it ,pick a company which can,will and,does build their own high dollar cars. Detroit speed, ridetech, rad rides by Troy, Foose, Steilow, Ironworks...Fesler cmon follow me here again NOBODY has . Anyone of these people or companies could have . I spent almost 2 years to find out FOR SURE that there was nobody making carbon fenders for 1970 Chevelle. i have some being made they will be the only set in the world, the molds will belong to the builder and said they may do a production run which in time would get more out in the public eye as well as lowering the price . I even put the price im paying out there and risking looking like a fool for paying that much,to show you how much custom stuff can cost . When i add that with carbon inner fenders, fender extensions, bumpers and filler panels, hood , trunk lid . I will be well north of 10,000 and guess what i still dont have doors ,quarters nor roof . factor molding and producing i could easily see 20-25. Now back to ring brothers , add the costs of its a custom wide body,profit margins , marketing etc . I really dont see how you think it could retain top quality and be cheaper . please feel free to chime back with what you feel an ideal price would be id be interested in seeing it .

To put it in the simplest write these tree things in a triangular fashion then draw arrows between them in a circular fashion this will be your answer
supply
demand
cost

First off, I'm glad you aren't/weren't offended . I wasn't either with our dialogue. In regards to you having to repeat yourself to me, I think it comes down to the fact that you don't know my experience with carbon fiber. I've built a carbon fiber airplane and have made other carbon fiber parts myself.

Anvil, Ring Brothers and all those others have something in common. None of them make the parts themselves. They are all done by a 3rd party. I've shopped around places that make carbon fiber parts and have seen a huge range in pricing for the same item. What I don't know is if these companies have found the cheapest yet still quality maker of said parts. Like I said before, I have experience with a group that makes carbon parts for airplanes and I'm working with them on pricing of parts as well as a potential Camaro body. So far they've been, IMO, extremely reasonable in their costs and all of the parts we are looking to make will be using prepreg.

In regards to your Chevelle parts. Those seem really expensive. I'm assuming so because of the molds that have to be made, but if they get to keep the molds and make/sell more parts from them, I hope they give you some sort of royalty deal.

[gabbett1]

I have the entire front clip and trunk lid from Anvil in carbon for my Camaro and it didn't cost me $10k. Their hood is $3k and I know I can have it made (cost) in prepreg for less than half of that. The Ring Brothers are charging $30k for a shell of a body. There's no floor or inner structure at all.

Most of these companies COULD do a full body for a Camaro (from an outside source), but none of them do it because they don't have incentive to. Since they can't make them in house, modifications would be an issue for them as well. What they currently do works and makes them money, and lots of it. Why change? The Ring Brothers are only offering the Carbon Mustang because they had a customer that wanted that and paid for it much like you are with your Chevelle fenders.

[raustinss]

wow ...so you wait until now to tell the class that you can,will and do make carbon parts . i know its a lil rude then but ...put up or shut up . what i mean is then do it your self . Helen Keller could tell that the camaro is the right car to do .

as for my carbon parts ....anvil parts
hood 2499$
trunk 1750 $
vent screen 135$

ultra-carbon
inner fenders $1200

sub total 5584$
custom fenders
cost of new fenders to use for molds 2@310$ = 620
cost of new fender extensions 2@ 42 = 84
cost of bumper filler panel 70$

total is now 6358
mold those parts ...produce necessary pieces ...ship them TO CANADA ...PAID FOR IN US DOLLARS...fit to the car ...prime..paint and you think it would be too much to pay 10,000 ? you sir are out to lunch

the parts already produced by anvil and ultra carbon are closing in on 6000 with out taxes or shipping or duty let alone an exchange rate of 1.31. so 1 us dollar is 1.31 Canadian . simple math means 5584 x1.31 =7315.04 canadian ... going back to the custom parts JUST TO PURCHASE THEM IN SHEETMETAL 6358$ x 1.31 = 8328.98$

now going to just my fenders i told you to purchase make and ship how much id be paying .... again my parts closing in on 10,000 is not going to unheard of nor far off what im guessing my math already has it at almost 12,000 canadian which is a touch of 9000 us...

no i wont be getting dividends off the molds being made this is an agreement between himself and myself and the company he owns , he is giving me a heavy discount on making the mold in the process in lew of paying me money . plus the same deal applies for all future parts between himself and myself .

I am offically done with this conversation as it is gone from informative conversation to running in circles, i wish you the best in producing your own carbon car being as you say you can , when your thinking about making your own car ask yourself .... how much will reinforcing plates cost , trapped nuts for bolts parts on , post mold machining, legal registration ..I.E carbon splinters when it breaks hence another reason for just skinning a car .

and finally AGAIN POST A PRICE LIKE NUMBERS AS TO WHAT YOU SEEM TO THINK YOU CAN OR SHOULD PAY TO DO THIS

[gabbett1]

wow ...so you wait until now to tell the class that you can,will and do make carbon parts . i know its a lil rude then but ...put up or shut up . what i mean is then do it your self . Helen Keller could tell that the camaro is the right car to do .

as for my carbon parts ....anvil parts
hood 2499$
trunk 1750 $
vent screen 135$

ultra-carbon
inner fenders $1200

sub total 5584$
custom fenders
cost of new fenders to use for molds 2@310$ = 620
cost of new fender extensions 2@ 42 = 84
cost of bumper filler panel 70$

total is now 6358
mold those parts ...produce necessary pieces ...ship them TO CANADA ...PAID FOR IN US DOLLARS...fit to the car ...prime..paint and you think it would be too much to pay 10,000 ? you sir are out to lunch

the parts already produced by anvil and ultra carbon are closing in on 6000 with out taxes or shipping or duty let alone an exchange rate of 1.31. so 1 us dollar is 1.31 Canadian . simple math means 5584 x1.31 =7315.04 canadian ... going back to the custom parts JUST TO PURCHASE THEM IN SHEETMETAL 6358$ x 1.31 = 8328.98$

now going to just my fenders i told you to purchase make and ship how much id be paying .... again my parts closing in on 10,000 is not going to unheard of nor far off what im guessing my math already has it at almost 12,000 canadian which is a touch of 9000 us...

no i wont be getting dividends off the molds being made this is an agreement between himself and myself and the company he owns , he is giving me a heavy discount on making the mold in the process in lew of paying me money . plus the same deal applies for all future parts between himself and myself .

I am offically done with this conversation as it is gone from informative conversation to running in circles, i wish you the best in producing your own carbon car being as you say you can , when your thinking about making your own car ask yourself .... how much will reinforcing plates cost , trapped nuts for bolts parts on , post mold machining, legal registration ..I.E carbon splinters when it breaks hence another reason for just skinning a car .

and finally AGAIN POST A PRICE LIKE NUMBERS AS TO WHAT YOU SEEM TO THINK YOU CAN OR SHOULD PAY TO DO THIS

No I told you very early on that I had experience with carbon fiber. My intent here wasn't to necessarily say I was going to do it yet anyway. I just wanted to have a conversation about it.

In regards to your parts. I wasn't trying to offend you. Also, I didn't realize you were saying $10k for everything, meaning shipping, body work, primer, paint etc. I thought you were referring to just the parts. I think you need to take a breath because you are getting very worked up over nothing here. I am just trying to have a conversation, but you seem to think you have all the answers already. If you do, then please by all means show me the evidence (of someone trying a full body). I would love to be proven wrong. Otherwise, I refuse to just take someone's word for it. Call it my stubbornness, which I know is a fault of mine, lol.

As far as numbers, we are still working on that. I know what I can make a hood for, but that's not the topic of our conversation. Plus, I don't want to get into issues with rules of the website. I was simply here to gauge interest and it quickly escalated into, you can't do it so don't try because nobody else has done it yet...