Cuda at SEMA

[Bill Howell]

I would be absolutely livid if I broke any hemi rod, be it from oil starvation

I edited your quote down, so I could address what I think was the issue with the cuda. In my 30 or so years of hotrodding one thing I have learned, oil starvation will kill any part of any motor, period. High dollar parts, cheap junk, what ever. It will even kill a 45 hp 4 cylinder. So that part of your statement is a bit over the top. If I am wrong, correct me, but I just wanted to clear that part up. Bob is also right about the stock hemi rods, they were junk new, ask anyone that had one back in the day. There is a reason there were only a few hemis sold in comparision to the other options, no one wanted them.

[ProStreet R/T]

I agree oil starvation will kill anything, but locking the motor up is a far stretch from throwing a rod. And yes the eagle rods are much better than stock, but that wasn't the comparison at hand.

Don't take my criticism the wrong way, I do like that cuda very much. But for the level of work that went into the car, the motor is mediocre. I completely understand the huge $$$ that went into it, and it's hard to pass up sponsor freebies, but it's also YOUR ASS on the line driving it. As well as the hassle of having it blow up, missing events, and the hassle that goes along with all that. Would you build a $150k car and skip to save $2k on very important engine internals? Bet ya Mark didn't when he build the MULE. The last car I worked on sure didn't, and it was just a regular production car, well and that custom cut billet crank ;)

If it would have been built with a KB stage 10 block, Anderson heads, Oliver rods, CP pistons, bryant crank, etc. would it have still blown up? We will never know, but I can say for certain that not only would the motor match the level of the car, but there would be no worries pushing it to 1500hp.

And it's pretty pathetic to say criticism is jealousy.

But you know I am still waiting to hear a response from Bob about the Maxton race. And that TT "ups truck" at 4500lbs and 12 psi running 219 mph on street tires... Still don't think they can run the number? Just wait and see, but i'd bet dollars to chinese rods one hits 235 in a standing mile this year.

Oh and is that beast going to be at the Year One event? I'm still trying to get a couple of the road race guys to come out and play.

[Bob Johnson]

I realize that the Eagles have gotten better, but it's a sad fact that their early offerings were so bad that many machinist had to re-size them out of the box. Now they are machined here in the U.S but they're still a chinese forging. All I can say is that if I ever have the ability to build a million dollar car there's no way in hell it'll have chinese rods or crank in it (Eagle, Scat, Cat). I would look toward Crower, Oliver, etc or maybe GRP or Bill Miller aluminum. I can't remember what crank you have, but I would by running a Bryant or Moldex or similar. That's just my take. It's your investment. Good luck.

You know we all said that same thing years ago about Japanese stuff, then the same about Korean stuff, now about Chinese..but you know, they have all improved..As I guess you'll agree, the Japanese make as good of products as there are anywhere. The Koreans are making good products now..The Chinese are improving everyday. The difference in the Asians and most of the rest of the world, they learn from their mistakes..Their products constantly improve. The Chinese can make nice products..just ask GMPP here in Winder. All their diecast models come from China..and it's top notch...I think Eagle is making a quality rod now. I'll agree with you a few years ago they had problems. This is now..

[Bob Johnson]

Bob, with comments like this, I'm suprised you are still bothering to answer questions. Do you think people are this rude in person, or just behind a keyboard? No, don't bother answering. Keep above the crap.

I have seen this car and watched it run, it is FANTASTIC from end to end. Why is it necessary to second guess, nit pick parts and complain about money involved. If you dont like it, go earn your own money, then build YOUR car. Maybe its just the way some people write, but it sounds like petty jealousy and adds nothing to the discussion.

I love the car, maybe a couple of style things I would change to suit my preferences if it was mine, but I can assure you there is nothing mediocre on it. Keep pushing the envelope Bob.

Hope to see you at year one.

Louis

Hey, everyone is entitled to his opinion. I've got thick skin. Nobody's crank, rods, and bearings would have done any better under the oil starvation this engine experienced. The front 2 cylinders bearings were melted and pouring out of the cap. We have made several changes. We have added a scavenge line in the intake valley to get that oil back to the pan. We have changed all the oil lines. We have added more oil to the tank. Not 100% sure which one or combination of them caused our problem. Hopfully we've got all bases covered.

[Bob Johnson]

I agree oil starvation will kill anything, but locking the motor up is a far stretch from throwing a rod. And yes the eagle rods are much better than stock, but that wasn't the comparison at hand.

Don't take my criticism the wrong way, I do like that cuda very much. But for the level of work that went into the car, the motor is mediocre. I completely understand the huge $$$ that went into it, and it's hard to pass up sponsor freebies, but it's also YOUR ASS on the line driving it. As well as the hassle of having it blow up, missing events, and the hassle that goes along with all that. Would you build a $150k car and skip to save $2k on very important engine internals? Bet ya Mark didn't when he build the MULE. The last car I worked on sure didn't, and it was just a regular production car, well and that custom cut billet crank ;)

If it would have been built with a KB stage 10 block, Anderson heads, Oliver rods, CP pistons, bryant crank, etc. would it have still blown up? We will never know, but I can say for certain that not only would the motor match the level of the car, but there would be no worries pushing it to 1500hp.

And it's pretty pathetic to say criticism is jealousy.

But you know I am still waiting to hear a response from Bob about the Maxton race. And that TT "ups truck" at 4500lbs and 12 psi running 219 mph on street tires... Still don't think they can run the number? Just wait and see, but i'd bet dollars to chinese rods one hits 235 in a standing mile this year.

Oh and is that beast going to be at the Year One event? I'm still trying to get a couple of the road race guys to come out and play.

I asked a few friends of mine if there were any Vipers up there..They said no..I guess they were asleep if one ran that fast. You've never heard me say that a TT Viper won't run the numbers. I said they just sound like crap and I don't like the looks of them..I've had several of them and they will go. I've never had a TT one but the 700 Venom one that I took to Barrett Jackson 3 years ago was real strong, but it sounded like a muffled 2 stroke. I don't want or need 1,500 hp. I'll hopefully be at Year One..unfortunately I won't have time to go back to Young's and get it dynoed with the pyrometers in each exhaust..I'm not going to be in such a rush this time. I don't know why you would need a full road race boogie Viper to come Cuda huntin..be like going squirrel huntin with an elephant gun..

[Bob Johnson]

I would like to offer some advice on some things, on your intake you said that it is 314 cuin, did you mean each plenum or both combined? If it is 314 apiece then you are fine, if it is combined then you will not make as much power as you should at high rpm. If you want to know what intake will make the most power at high rpm just look at BMW M and F1 engines they both have individual throttle bodies, all you have to do with that style is calculate the runner volume and length for peak power and create a air filter. I’m surprised that with a project this high end you didn’t go that route.

On the oil system I would put the whole system back in the car and use a drill to spin the oil pump at a high rpm for a while and see how much oil is left in the tank, I would also try to squeeze the oil feed line while you are doing that and see if you can get it to collapse. You could also run a 1” hard line for the feed line (like aluminum or stainless) and just 1 foot of flex line to allow for motor flex (which you won’t have much of with a motor plate) and that will not collapse.

For your driveshaft/input shaft you are thinking about it wrong, you have no torque multiplication from a transmission. If a aluminum driveshaft car live behind a 500 ft/lb motor with a 2.5 – 3.0 first gear than it can handle 1250 – 1500 ft/lbs. If I remember right you are not making that much power and you said that your transaxle can only handle 1500 so that would probably blow up first.

I’m not trying to sound insulting just shining some light on things. If you are interested in doing the individual throttle bodies then send me a pm or e-mail and I may be able to help.

Thanks for your interest..We do have 2 throttle bodies. You turn over a project to a intake builder and they do it their way instead of the way you envisioned it. We were skeptical of the intake when we got it. We argued with the manufacturer about it. He assures us it will make the power and perform well. In his defense, we do have space limitations(primarily height). We are going to tune the car by each cylinder this time..We are putting pyrometers in each exhaust to get individual readings. We'll see..The figure I gave you is the total Volume for both plenums..We feel it's way short..We realize we're not getting the multiple of torque since the trans is in the rear, but we were being safe rather than sorry. If the modified clutch doesn't get it to shift right, we'll try the driveshaft next. Don't want to try 10 things at once. The oil lines were way too soft. We are changing them. We felt they were too soft, but we were assured they would do the job..First time shame on them..second time shame on me..the C5 Corvettes are experiencing driveshaft failure when they start making power..

[Bob Johnson]

I agree oil starvation will kill anything, but locking the motor up is a far stretch from throwing a rod. And yes the eagle rods are much better than stock, but that wasn't the comparison at hand.

Don't take my criticism the wrong way, I do like that cuda very much. But for the level of work that went into the car, the motor is mediocre. I completely understand the huge $$$ that went into it, and it's hard to pass up sponsor freebies, but it's also YOUR ASS on the line driving it. As well as the hassle of having it blow up, missing events, and the hassle that goes along with all that. Would you build a $150k car and skip to save $2k on very important engine internals? Bet ya Mark didn't when he build the MULE. The last car I worked on sure didn't, and it was just a regular production car, well and that custom cut billet crank ;)

If it would have been built with a KB stage 10 block, Anderson heads, Oliver rods, CP pistons, bryant crank, etc. would it have still blown up? We will never know, but I can say for certain that not only would the motor match the level of the car, but there would be no worries pushing it to 1500hp.

And it's pretty pathetic to say criticism is jealousy.

But you know I am still waiting to hear a response from Bob about the Maxton race. And that TT "ups truck" at 4500lbs and 12 psi running 219 mph on street tires... Still don't think they can run the number? Just wait and see, but i'd bet dollars to chinese rods one hits 235 in a standing mile this year.

Oh and is that beast going to be at the Year One event? I'm still trying to get a couple of the road race guys to come out and play.

I'd love to see what Mark put in the Mule's engine..someone got the old PHR articles on that part of the build?

[syborg tt]

Okay need your help Bob. I keep looking at your Sony Radio. Why can't i find it anywhere ??

ps. I am building a single turbo engine for my 4.3l daily driver and i am big fan of eagle rods and trw pistons. They are pretty much bomb proof in this application. But other people think i'm nuts for thinking this way but it doesn't bother me either.

[Bob Johnson]

Okay need your help Bob. I keep looking at your Sony Radio. Why can't i find it anywhere ??

ps. I am building a single turbo engine for my 4.3l daily driver and i am big fan of eagle rods and trw pistons. They are pretty much bomb proof in this application. But other people think i'm nuts for thinking this way but it doesn't bother me either.

We haven't put the actual radio in it. Can't listen to tunes until I get everything sorted out. I have a 3.8 89 Indy Pace Car Trans Am I bought new..Gotta get it back together..only has 15K miles..sounds about as bad as a Viper though..

[Charley Lillard]

I'd love to see what Mark put in the Mule's engine..someone got the old PHR articles on that part of the build?

... The twin turbo engine in the Mule was done in it's final configuration by Wheel 2 Wheel

Gm race block
Lunati 4340 crank
JE forged pistons...coated tops and skirts
Oliver billet steel rods
Clevite H series bearings
speed-pro rings
Cometic head gaskets
Melling HV oil pump
18 degree TFS heads
ATI dampner
Isky valve springs and retainers.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I have just got to ask the question. What in the hell do you have Mr Pro Street? To talk **** about a car like Bob's, Whatever you have must be the ****! And what gives you the right to ridicule Bob on what parts he spends his million bucks on? At least he has it to spend? And as far Eagle rods, we push them pretty hard around here. Not 1500HP hard, but 900HP to 1000HP hard in heavy nitrous motors I happen to have, and lots of street miles!

What really blows me away is Bob is taking a tongue lashing from you, and the rods are not the problem? It just makes no damn sense. If the thing would have thrown a rod, you still wouldn't have a right to ridicule him, but it would at least make sense why you continue to preach about the damn rods.

You may not be jealous, but it damn sure looks that way to others.

By the way, Prodigy has Eagle rods. Why don't you jump on my **** for a while and let Bob get his car back together.

[Bob Johnson]

I'm talking about when it was built in PHR with donated parts. I know you put top dollar parts in it when you built it..Post up what went in when Mark built it originally..We know there's only one thing short on you..(it ain't your temper)..I know you have a dossier on every facet of that Mule..

[Bill Howell]

So, I am bored tonight!

[Bill Howell]

But I noticed something a few minutes ago!

[Bill Howell]

This thread that we have been following since SEMA is now almost at 1000 posts!

[Bill Howell]

So I thought,

[Bill Howell]

Being the post whore I am

[Bill Howell]

Why not just make a few posts

[Bill Howell]

And be the one

[Bill Howell]

To post number 1000!