Attention All Hydratech Customers And Hydraulic Brake Assist Users

[Hydratech®]

We are currently in the process of designing a superior new model of hydraulic brake assist unit! While this will take some time to design and ultimately achieve production, the time frames may not be nearly as distant as some may initially believe. What we would like to do here is to receive as much feedback as possible for use in designing the newest superior model hydraulic brake assist units. To that end, would you please take a moment to provide some highly appreciated feedback and survey information, as after all, we are going to be producing these systems for you!

Some of the key design improvements currently in discussion are:

* High strength Aluminum alloy instead of cast iron for much lighter overall weight, which may also be optionally polished to a very high appearance grade finish

* Shorter overall assembled lengths

* Larger register sizes to accommodate 2 stage / quick take up design master cylinders

* Slotted master cylinder mounting holes to accommodate various different styles of master cylinders

* Adjustable master cylinder pushrod

* Higher hydraulic flow through capacities / rates

* User adjustable power output – picture literally being able to optionally turn up or down the desired levels of available brake assist!

* Multiple keyway mounting

* Interchangeable brake pedal rod design

* Stand alone operations not requiring the use of power steering if desired

* Remote accumulator design for packaging in tight areas

* Individual valve body assemblies for use in tailoring the pedal response and feel characteristics, along with various available port configurations to accommodate a large range of possible plumbing options

* Highly enhanced low friction seal technology for precision fluid control

Your comments and suggestions are welcomed! Please advise

[protour_chevelle]

Stand alone operations not requiring the use of power steering if desired
......

What are our options here? A seperate electric pump or the like?

The rest of the proposed improvements look great! Is the price going to change with the new improvements, if so about how much do you figure?

Oh, As far as the Aluminum ones go.... Are you guys going to build them in house now?

-Matt

[69CamaroRacer]

It sounds like you have a great product comming ... Do you need a car to test out your new products on? I minght be willing to help u.

[parsonsj]

How about something for us dual master cylinder guys?

jp

[MuscleRodz]

I like where this is going!

Mike

[kmcanally]

Not yet a user but thinking about getting one for my 68 Mustang coupe. I sure like the pedal feel of my 04 dailey driver and would really like the Mustang to feel similar.

[TitoJones]

How about something for us dual master cylinder guys?

jp

Ding! Ding! Ding!
That is what I'm talking about. Dual masters with Hydro boost would be killer.

Tyler

[Blown353]

Dual masters with Hydro boost would be killer.

Tyler

What he said.

Also, less transmitted less hydraulic "noise" into the car would be nice; the noise doesn't bother me one bit, although a lot of passengers ask what the heck it is when they first hear it, typically when I'm slowly backing out of a parking spot and am turning the wheel. I know the OEM's tried all sorts of tricks (special hose compounds, special isolators clamped over the hoses, turbulator-type things inserted inside the hoses, etc) so there may not be much you can do about this because it's pump/hose harmonics that play into things more than the assist unit itself.

I like all the other ideas. My two most favorite are shorter overall length and the idea of "dial-a-boost" to easily control the assist amount.

I'm still having superb luck with my blueprinted unit from you Paul.

Troy

[MuscleRodz]

My '97 1 ton Chevy Crew has one on it and I don't have any noise with it. My only complaint is the one time the truck shut down due to a distributer gear failure I had no brakes. You can't stop a 7K pound truck without brakes and I had to use the emergency brake to stop it. Is there any way to have an emergency reserve just in case? I could see me making a high speed run on a track and have a engine failure and not being able to stop the beast going into a turn or avoiding someone. I notice you mentioned something about a different powersource? Can you divulge further?

Mike

[yody]

they do have a nitrogen reserve that will help you push the pedal about 3 times. My unit isn't noisy either, in fact it works flawlessly. All of those ideas are really great, however in my car the only thing I would of picked differently would be an aluminum one for lighter weight.

[DeepBlue68]

Hydratech - I was wondering if you have any predictions as to the total time until the new version of the Hydroboost will be released? I know it depends a lot on what modifications to the system you end up doing, how long testing takes, etc. I ask because I am considering purchasing the system, but my car won't be completed for probably 2 years, and if the system will be available sometime in that approximate time frame, I'll wait for the new one since I won't be driving my car for a while. Six months? A year? 5 years? Just looking for a roundabout guess...

[ilovefirstgens]

Ahh paul youre killin me! haha well once i get the car back together ill let ya know, also possibly interchangeability between the alum body and the old cast iron one.....

[Rick Dorion]

My setup is quiet and I like the reserve feature. Lighter is always good although not an issue for me. I like the adjustable feature as I currently have teeth marks in my steering wheel from the first few times out

[CAMAROBOY69]

I would be happy with the old version but a new version would be even better! The brakes are very very near on my soon to do list. My booster is destroyed and I have always wanted a hydraboost set up but I dont have power steering. Im tired of pushing on my pedal only to hear air noises come out. I need a brake upgrade bad!! I just cant justify paying $70 for a stock booster. Im ready for hydratech.

[el-camino]

Hydraboost ? a good thing...

but my Camino brakes with BMW 750i Power

[Hydratech®]

Hi Guys - thank you very much for your stellar feedback so far!

Let me take and answer the questions / posts in the order which they have come in so far:

Pro_tour Chevelle: We acknowledge that there are many customers that would love to run this system without actually running a power steering box or rack, per a strong preference for manual steering. We have already implemented some changes in the existing systems towards accomodating this, though the current designs still require a conventional ps pump to power the system up. We most likely will initially produce a newer series / design of assist unit that still functions as the earlier designs do, though aspire to follow up shortly thereafter with an electric (?) stand alone pump assembly. From a reliability standpoint, it is still VERY hard to beat a belt driven pump though. Pricing? Our target is to stay as close as realisticly possible to the current pricing structures, though I can see where these will most likely have to cost a bit more. We realize that no matter how wicked a brake booster could possibly ever get, that there is realisticly only so much that an enthusiast would be willing to shell out. Yes, production of the aluminum assist units will be "in house".

69CamaroRacer: Hard to say, though we just may release a few pre-production models to a select group for analysis and feedback.

Parsonsj: This IS also being currently discussed, though "mums the word" until further notice. What I can say is that there is some serious consideration in the production of a feather weight C5 Vette type plastic aluminum type mc, with a variety of different bore sizes available + simple conventional flare type line connections to facilitate a direct bolt in upgrade (even if not using a hydraulic brake assist unit).

Kmcanally: If you like the way your late model driver feels, you'll just absolutely fall in love with how the vastly more powerful current production '67-'70 Mustang conversion systems behave. We are considering producing an upgrade assist unit for use in the '96 up 'Stangs too, though that's currently "way down there on the TO DO list" at this time.

TitoJones: See you in Vegas!

Blown353: As I'm sure that you are aware, the hydraulic brake assist units in and of themselves don't create noise. It is more about solidly bolting a ps driven component to the firewall, which then can act as a sounding board. The noise issue is predominately related to the characteristics of your particular ps pump setup. Mini pumps generally run noiser as the pump itself is not immersed in the ps fluid, which quells quite a large amount of NVH. This is primarily why GM still uses the venerable Saginaw P series pumps on models that come factory equipped with these types of ps driven brake assist systems. The ps pump internal cam profiles x rpm x miscellaneous other details will also dictate the hydraulic frequencies produced by the ps system. I am very confident that if you were to swap out your current Sunbird based Type II mini with a high end KRC supplied pump and reservoir, that you would then enjoy just about nearly silent operations. We have also observed that certain noise related concerns can be traced back to the remote resrvoir designs and some measure of fluid sensitivity (meaning try a different ps fluid, as you may be suprised by what you find). Hit the bottom of our FAQ section on the website for an image of a classic old school Saginaw P series pump that works in conjunction with a remote resrvoir = nice way to still clear your belt driven supercharger, while still enjoying superior NVH characteristics. Yes - the "varadjust" boost control option and shorter assembled lengths are on the forefront of our thoughts too. As far as your assist unit and the "superb luck" you are experiencing? Simply a testimony to quality!

MuscleRodz: It sounds like your accumulator bottle on the side of your assist unit may need to be replaced, as you should've had atleast 2-3 assisted brake applications to work with in your scenario. While we can't put a true pattern to it, we have observed that this was somewhat prevalent with the '95 - '97 models, possibly a quality control issue during manufacture. As far as a possible alternate power source? I'm am somewhat limited in what I can say here, though we will most likely not directly support OEM type vehicles like your truck.

Yody: Yes - aluminum is at the absolute top of our list too! Note that Cody is running a KRC mini pump setup and reporting back with silent operations.

DeepBlue68: This is THE toughest question to answer at this time. On the inside? It could be as quickly as 6 months. On the outside? I'd like to think that if everything went wrong, that we could still make it happen within a year's time. Time will ultimately tell the tale...

ilovefirstgens: Assist unit interchangeability will be maintained, to where if you have one of the earlier models and then wanted to upgrade to the newer design at some point, you would only need to obtain just the assist unit itself. Part for actual part (in the booster itself) will not generally interchange.

Rick Dorion: You're essentially right, in that the added weight of the current production design vs a 1st gen stock vacuum booster is suprisingly only 6 lbs. The benefits of highly enhanced overall braking performance make this 6 lb weight penalty completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. I can easily see where you would have "teeth marks in your steering wheel", as you were so used to "stepping on a rock" with your C4 Vette based manual brake setup that once you installed the system you definitely had to retrain your brake foot (!).

CAMAROBOY69: You are indeed one of the guys that would benefit from the development of a stand alone system. Until we get past some of the hurdles, do know that we can get you running stand alone right here and now through the installation of a stock type belt driven pump. (contact me via e-mail if interested in further details). I have always been a strong advocate of power steering though, as when / if your car does get away from you, you can usually "reel it back in" just that much better with a faster steering ratio. With the new DSE 600 box now available, you can't use the old "lack of road feel" excuse anymore either.

El-camino: I took a quick look at your website to try to see just what it is you are referring to. Though I couldn't find any reference to what you are saying (maybe I just missed it), I DID run across the dangerous curves sign though (!)

Keep the excellent suggestions and feedback coming guys! :3gears:

[yody]

Yody: Yes - aluminum is at the absolute top of our list too! Note that Cody is running a KRC mini pump setup and reporting back with silent operations.

actually I am using a Lees manufacturing remote resevoir P-pump, no noises yet.

[MuscleRodz]

Not looking for support of my OE truck. It is just the only experience I have with Hydroboost. Your guestimate timing for availablity sound about right for my needs for my '68 Camaro. Once I make a final decision on brakes I will give you a call.

Mike

[madmax]

I know this might go against the grain here, but I would like to see a reduction in the price of the iron units when the aluminum ones come out. That would leave a gap between the pricing, but it would make a "low cost" hydroboost system much more attractive in price than the single option right now.

-Max

[CAMAROBOY69]

Paul,
Thank you for the reply. Now that I know I dont need the power steering to get the Hydratech that definetly puts the Hydratech next on my list of major things to buy.
Screw buying a stock booster. I will just save my money and do it right.