IFS Technology - No Limit Sniper IFS

[Nothingface5384]

looks awesome and very promising
are their plans down the line for a A body kit?

[carbuff]

The engine and trans are offset .750" to the passenger side. This was done to help with side to side weight balance, as well as steering clearance.

Rob,

I'm curious how this affected transmission clearance to the tunnel? Or do you expect there to be some tunnel mods with this setup? I know 3/4" isn't much, but those T56 Magnums are a pretty tight fit in these old cars.

[DJW32]

Rob,
What brakes is velocity running on the new sub?

[RobNoLimit]

looks awesome and very promising
are their plans down the line for a A body kit?

We have looked into that. At the moment we are busy with 1rst and 2nd gen F-body subs. While the suspension geometry and components are adaptable to the A-body, the subframe design is not. This would require a new front sub assembly that would have to be installed onto the chassis. So there's the catch. How many A-body owners would be willing (and able) to cut off the front of their chassis, say just behind the OE steering box mount, and fit up and weld on a new front section? Now for reference, we make a front snout for 49-51 Mercs with our Wide-Ride IFS, and these guys don't think twice about getting out the sawzall. I also personally think that a clean 66/67 Chevelle with 315's on all corners, updated suspension and brakes, LSX and 6 speed would be a great Power Tour or One-Lap car. But the big question is, would enough guys do it?

[RobNoLimit]

Rob,

I'm curious how this affected transmission clearance to the tunnel? Or do you expect there to be some tunnel mods with this setup? I know 3/4" isn't much, but those T56 Magnums are a pretty tight fit in these old cars.

Fair question. If I had it my way, without restrictions, I would have pushed it over another 1/2". But, then there would be fitment trouble. We really worked hard to make this a true bolt-in fit to the OE platform. The Driver and Passenger side sub rails are different shape to allow clearance for the A/C compressor and headers with the eng/trans offset. in the Picture is the underside of the Velocity Camaro, and it has a T56 6-speed. There are no fitment issues. There is at least 3/4" at the tightest spots.

[RobNoLimit]

Rob,
What brakes is velocity running on the new sub?

We chose to re-use the 14" 6P Baer brakes that were on the OE spindles before. With the new spindle and hub design, it is very easy for us to match up a variety of rotors and calipers. We already have mount kits for Baer 14" 6P, Wilwood 13" 4P and 6P, and Brakeman 13" wave rotor with 4P. The rotor adapter is machined to interlock onto the hub so that the hardware isn't taking the brake load. One set of rotor adapters (your choice) is included with the IFS, the caliper mounts are additional, and range from $195 to $245 per pair (one pair per car) This makes the brake addition to the suspension a lot more affordable.

For example :
Wilwood 14" x 1.25 Spec 37 rotor #160-12341/2-bk $329 each
Wilwood Forged 6P Superlite, Radial mount #120-13236/5 $278 each
Wilwood E pads, 15E-6084K $109 set
No Limit caliper mount set $229

So for $1552 =/- you have 14" 6 piston brakes with good pads. That's a good deal compares to the $2200 upgrade price of most other subframe assemblies.

[dhutton]

It's amazing to see these new F body subframes coming out. I thought this segment was pretty much done evolving several years ago. Interesting to see where they are heading and how and if the competition counters.

Don

[srh3trinity]

I like the fact that you essentially started from scratch on the design and that you planned ahead for brakes and headers, etc.

[DJW32]

Rob,
Thanks for the brake info.

Are there any plans for sub frame connectors?

[carbuff]

Fair question. If I had it my way, without restrictions, I would have pushed it over another 1/2". But, then there would be fitment trouble. We really worked hard to make this a true bolt-in fit to the OE platform. The Driver and Passenger side sub rails are different shape to allow clearance for the A/C compressor and headers with the eng/trans offset. in the Picture is the underside of the Velocity Camaro, and it has a T56 6-speed. There are no fitment issues. There is at least 3/4" at the tightest spots.

Sounds good to me. Have you already built/prototyped a second gen yet? I don't remember exactly, but I know the tunnel in my Firebird is a pretty tight fit as it is, and we also cut and raised it almost 2". The 1st gen has a more squared-off top to the tunnel as I recall while the second gen is more rounded. So I'll be curious to hear how well the motor shift works on the second gen.

I look forward to reading more info. Thanx!

[RobNoLimit]

It's amazing to see these new F body subframes coming out. I thought this segment was pretty much done evolving several years ago. Interesting to see where they are heading and how and if the competition counters.

Don

Thanks Don. We're excited to see what the next level can do. I think it's cool that Blake (SpeedTech) and Ron Sutton are working together on a new sub/suspension design as well. Ron and I have had some great conversations over the years and when it comes to suspension performance we share many of the same ideas. It will be interesting, to say the least, to see how these new designs stack up against the current crop. I'm hoping Blake gets one underway and can possibly make the trip out to Columbus later this year, it would be cool to see the new designs together.

[RobNoLimit]

I like the fact that you essentially started from scratch on the design and that you planned ahead for brakes and headers, etc.

Thanks Stephen. We even made room for the OE Camaro LS oil pan. No need to pay for a "swap" pan.

[RobNoLimit]

Rob,
Thanks for the brake info.

Are there any plans for sub frame connectors?

The easy answer is yes. We did incorporate thread inserts to positively mount subframe connectors, so that part is done. Now, while we have built a few of these subs and been road testing and driving them, we have not yet finished our rear suspension packages. At the moment, we are leaning towards a weld-in subframe connector that will include a new front leaf pocket with a set of sleeved front eye mount sockets (no more removing the pocket to get the spring or link bolt out). Once welded in place these would use a small bolt in section to connect to the front subframe (with this approach the subframe connector can be used with most other front and rear suspensions) We are also planning in a set of outriggers to tie into the cage hoop area, and a fitted weld in cross support for seat belt/harness mounts and a driveshaft loop. While this may be more involved and require some cutting and welding (nothing more than a mini-tubb install) we believe this will be critical to delivering true a Supercar experience.

[RobNoLimit]

Sounds good to me. Have you already built/prototyped a second gen yet? I don't remember exactly, but I know the tunnel in my Firebird is a pretty tight fit as it is, and we also cut and raised it almost 2". The 1st gen has a more squared-off top to the tunnel as I recall while the second gen is more rounded. So I'll be curious to hear how well the motor shift works on the second gen.

I look forward to reading more info. Thanx!

We are currently working on the final fittment for 2nd gen subs. Yes the tunnel is a bit tighter, and so it looks like a little reshaping will still be needed. - At least for the larger case transmissions.

[Ron Sutton]

It's amazing to see these new F body subframes coming out. I thought this segment was pretty much done evolving several years ago. Interesting to see where they are heading and how and if the competition counters.

Don

Thanks Don. We're excited to see what the next level can do. I think it's cool that Blake (SpeedTech) and Ron Sutton are working together on a new sub/suspension design as well. Ron and I have had some great conversations over the years and when it comes to suspension performance we share many of the same ideas. It will be interesting, to say the least, to see how these new designs stack up against the current crop. I'm hoping Blake gets one underway and can possibly make the trip out to Columbus later this year, it would be cool to see the new designs together.

I agree Don. It did seem the front clip designs had become stagnant. Then Speedtech & No Limit commit the time, work & $$$ to take it to another level. It's pretty cool.

Rob! Congrats on the new project! You coming out West for any events this year? I will be coming out East for a few events ... Goodguys PPG Nationals, Ohio in July, the Holley LS Fest in Sept & the Goodguys Lone Star Nationals in October. We need to have a beer & catch up.

[ccmc]

Has pricing been determined yet?

[DJW32]

Has pricing been determined yet?

I agree. I'm curious.

Also, what rear suspension are you working on... Torque arm with watts link, 3 link??

Have you tested the tbm brakes? I've read plenty of info about them, but I have not seen feedback from any users.

[RobNoLimit]

I agree Don. It did seem the front clip designs had become stagnant. Then Speedtech & No Limit commit the time, work & $$$ to take it to another level. It's pretty cool.

Rob! Congrats on the new project! You coming out West for any events this year? I will be coming out East for a few events ... Goodguys PPG Nationals, Ohio in July, the Holley LS Fest in Sept & the Goodguys Lone Star Nationals in October. We need to have a beer & catch up.

With the move and everything going on, I don't see a West Coast trip until SEMA. Will will be in Tx next weekend, and Keith and Velocity will be in Tx for the USCA the following weekend. He was planning on taking the car to Tx, But managed to get in on a last chance bid to the NCM event/school that same weekend. So, we'll be in Columbus and at the LS fest. See ya there.

[RobNoLimit]

Has pricing been determined yet?

The final number is not yet set, as we are waiting on package pricing for hardware and a few odds and ends. I can tell you that it will be right in line with the other offerings out there, in the $7100 - $7200 range.

[RobNoLimit]

I agree. I'm curious.

Also, what rear suspension are you working on... Torque arm with watts link, 3 link??

Have you tested the tbm brakes? I've read plenty of info about them, but I have not seen feedback from any users.

1. The rear suspension we are working on is a 3-link and panhard. The coil-overs and sway bar will be mounted in the trunk, and drivin via a pushrod and rocker assembly. The rear seat can go back in, but the base cushion needs a bit of re-working to fit. We know there will be some work involved to install this type of suspension system, but it takes no more skills than to install mini tubbs or replace a trunk pan. And, it will work!

2. TBM brakes. I have run their 4 piston caliper for two seasons now on the Hellboy C10, and I love them. We have used every aftermarket brake set that you can think of, and I think that the TBM caliper may be the most effecient. Over the years we have performed this simple test on brake sets. Pull of the wheel/tire. Screw in a brake pressure guage into the bleed port. Set a large (12") dial caliper over the center of the brake caliper (across the caliper inside to outside) and snug it up and note the width. Push on the brake pedal until you get 750 lbs of line pressure (or as high as you can get if it system won't get to 750). Then note the new measurement on the dial calipers and do the math to se how much the caliper flexed. We have measured some calipers to have as much as .100" flex!!! At this rate less than 50% of the pad is doing any work. We have tested the TBM calipers on the truck many times, and the most we could measure is .008" @ 1000psi.

The set we like from them is a 13" wave rotor at .810" thick. Gas slotted but not drilled. 4 Pistom caliper and a good set of pads. BP-30, E-pads, TBM-3S, or Hawk. This caliper uses the same pad as a Wilwood superlite 4P, which is the circle track racers favorite, so there are many many pads to choose from. This set up will run appx $1575.

Wes Drelleshack runs TBM on his Apache, and the guys at Dueces Wild in Filmore use them on everything they build. You can see them in Pomona this weekend at the Street Machine nats.