Need opinions, for Project Prodigy

[Mean 69]

Yody, I would be more than glad to help you out in such a race by offering to tow your car to the race, anywhere it is. I'll do it for free, you don't even have to pay for gas. If the only issue is your deciding upon what gear set you need, well, I'll throw that in the deal too, you call it, I'll buy it.

The issue, young man, is that you PROFESS your OPINIONS, making them sound like FACT. Not just on this thread either, I have seen some incredibly bad advise and assumptions that are plain ludicrous on other posts that I have far more subject knowledge on, and sorry, but as a result, I'd have to question what you say here too. Building "a" car and bench racing on an internet site does not make one an expert. I say put up, or shut up.

One disclaimer, I'll only agree to tow the car if the race is in a safe venue, no street racing. There is an incredibly nice race track right down the street in LV, I'll look into arrangements to see if they are available for such an event (last year there was a NASA race the weekend after SEMA, maybe there will be a similar event this year).

I really don't get it, in person you are a really great guy, but behind the keyboard, you really and truly seem like a completely different person.



Mark

[yody]

whatever, please quote me hear or where on "all this bad advice" ? So what did I do wrong on my car? And you are one for Professing opinions! I never once said I wanted to race anyone or my motor was better or I knew more or my car was faster? OF course Franks car is faster, can he build a better motor or faster car? I am sure he can!!! Why is it that I can't defend myself without being accused of being an A-hole? I really don't see where I was out of line on this post? I never once attacked Frank. Maybe its my fault for being to quick to respond to atagonizing remarks. BTW I am exactly the same in person and on teh keyboard, whats funny is that this stuff never happens on any other forums? Whats really funny is being told I am wrong by a bunch of guys (besides frank) that I am wrong who don't even build their own engines?? Just stick to the supsension stuff. I can be the first to admit I know a lot but I also don't know squat. A lot of what I know is just from reading/advice, and a lot is from experience. I am no expert or guru hear, but i believe my advice on this subject in this post is pretty decent. Like Frank said, My motor wasn't right and I asked questions, I havne't been around this stuff for as long as a lot of people. I am pretty young. Seems I don't fit in to the "hierachy" of this board. But please enlighten me to all of my super bad advise, especially in this post.

[Matt@RFR]

Cody, please answer one question: Why do race engine builders, who have been at this game all their lives, run 15:1, 16:1 on up to 18:1 (on gas) when, by your logic, could get away with 13:1 and be so much easier on the rotating assembly?

And don't even think about saying that race motors and good street motors are two different things. They aren't. They are nothing but a big air pump, and effiecency is everything to an air pump. When you design a motor, there's no reason whatsoever to not take advantage of proper techniques...one of which is maximizing compression for the situation. If you can get away with 12:1 on pump gas, or 13:1 on a 50/50 mix, then why would you NOT do it????

I don't know why you keep arguing this. YOU ARE WRONG CODY. There's enough talent, on and off this board, that is contradicting everything you say, that I would think you'd get the idea by now. It's ok to admit when you don't know something.

Do keep in mind that every motor is different, and there are flukes that can happen. When working with a race engine builder, we had a guy come in and want to slow his car down to under 135mph so he didn't have to wear a full suit. My boss took him from 13:1 to 10.5:1 (on alcohol) and said, "That should do it.". Funny thing.....he picked up 3mph with no other changes.

[yody]

whatever I guess I am wrong. NOT! It seems you guys don't even give a chance to what I am saying or even read the contents of my posts, you just figure I am stupid Yody and just want to agree with the majority. I never said 11.5-1 compression was ridiculous, My point was that it wasn't necessary. Whatever, this has gotten so ridiculous, no one has proven anything wrong, and your examples are totally out in left field......like I said, it all depends on the combo, not knowing the cam specs, and the rest of the specs of the engine, quoting compression specs isn't necessary. I personally have close to 11-1 compression. It works fine. My suggestion for the 100th time is that Frank build a motor with a a little less compression and THE REST OF THE MOTOR TO MATCH for better streetability, and still reach is HP goal. God this is getting old.......
BTW the difference between a race motor and a street motor is the way it behaves and what it needs to do in certain circumstances. So yes there is a difference. All depends on application. So I guess we should all just drop in Nacar SB2 motors and call it a day?

[Steve Chryssos]

delete.

[Matt@RFR]

whatever, please quote me hear or where on "all this bad advice" ?

Okie dokie.

well, i welded my axle tubes to my pumpkin and also welded on brackets for the hardline to softline brake lines. It was a good amount of welding, like a goof off i didn't measure anything, but my axles slid in perfectly and rotate great. I would think if there was any binding you would feel it when putting in the axle. Otherwise you guys might be getting too anal.

That's like telling somebody to not worry about aligning their front end. Would it work? Yes. Is it right? Not by a long shot.

That's only one example of many Cody. If you're not an expert on a particular subject, please stick to asking questions.

Also, grammar please.

[yody]

well when my axle comes flying out I will be sure to tell you didn't know you were so multi talented you are a race engine builder and a welder. Kudos to you!

[ProdigyCustoms]

Jake Tony is specing a cam that isn't going to fun in your motor.

For those of you that do not know, Tony IS AFR. So now AFR does not know as much as Yody!

You are building a near identical motor to mine(except for the CNC'd heads you lucky .....) My motor already only pulls 7" of vacuum at 950rpm that is with .026 lash hot.

Who cares? If he is running manual brakes or hydroboost, what deos it matter? All he cares about is hauling ass.

If you run a cam like that, expect to run upwards of 11-1 compression, probably more like 12-1(race gas)


I am starting to understand, you simply CANNOT listen. He said they were wotking with 11 to 1!

and some major deep gears to run with that T56 six speed, probably some 4:56's.

Why the hell would he do that? With the mega deep first gear, all that HP and horsepower, he will want a tll gear so it goes.

Also expect to run a 106LSA and have a race car idle,

Yes it will, and that is exactly what Jake has asked for!

It will run super fat at idle and it ain't going to idle below 1,000rpm.

Why? Why will it run fat? Wasn't I the one that told you were running off the jets and not the idle circuit when you complained you were running rich? You admited you were not on the idle circuit in your last post. I have been dozens of engines with giant cams, and none run rich, when properly tuned. Again, I sit in traffic for hours, no problems, with a bigger cam and less cubes.

You need more compression or more cubic inches for a deal like that.

BS

Also expect more like .730 lift with a good aggresive grind with those duration numbers.

We are going to keep the lift down under 700, just for that reason.
EDIT:
Like I said keep your trash talking where it belongs.....

So there

[yody]

Yody is the big winner today. He gets his way. It will be a 540 N/A motor with a NOS hit. Since it had dish piston for the blower, I have to buy pistons anyway, so I am going to go ahead and make it a 540CI. 10.7 to 1, Looking for a easy 750HP NA, and I am still waiting to here from Holley to find out if the NOS will work with the Commander.

I still think the ProCharger is a fantastic blower, but in this case I just do not want the weight and plumbing issues

whats funny here is that Frank already he was going to be running the exact compression that I am running. and states he wants 750HP, 10.7-1 compression. Is that good enough??

[Mean 69]

Also, Scuderia Ferrari called. They wanted me to thank Yody on their behalf. They too have been enlightened. The F1 team is abandoning costly and complicated traction control. Instead they are adopting this radical engine technology scheme and calling it: "Il Motore di Poop." If all works well, they will transfer the technology to their street cars and cast each valve cover with the word: "Testayody" All valve covers will be painted in a brown krinkle finish instead of red and the prancing horse will forever be replaced with a silhouette of a turkey taking a crap.

Oh man, that was priceless. :icon996:

Seeing's how Team Red is getting their booties handed to them, well, this may not be too far off! Do you like pasta, Yody? Maranello is nice in the fall I have heard.

Mark-out.

P.S:

Whats really funny is being told I am wrong by a bunch of guys (besides frank) that I am wrong who don't even build their own engines?? Just stick to the supsension stuff. I can be the first to admit I know a lot but I also don't know squat.

I did build my own motor, beyond the machine work that is. It blew up, block seems to have taken a dump. Does that make you feel better?

[yody]

Okay to respond to Franks last post
1. I already stated that AFR is Tony, and know I don't know more than Tony, but Tony is a head designer just like Matt is a welder not a race engine builder :bsjerk: Tony knows 100x's more than me, but considering I already have an almost identical motor and Tony doesn't I think I would have some insight on how a cam like Tony suggested would run in Jakes motor.

2. It doesnt' really matter on vacuum, it was a comparison, the more duration the less vacuum, so he would have about 5" vacuum, I think that would just show just how big the cam actually is, not really the a big deal however

3.On the compression, I know he is working with 11-1 me and jake have been emailing each other for a month about his combo, My point was that he would "want" upwards of 11-1 to work properly with such a big cam in such small cubes (454) sorry i worded it wrong

4.With the gear spread and overdrive in the T56 and the cam/combo he would be running, to keep the motor in its powerband he would need steep gears. Such as 4:56's. I have 3:73's with the same tranny and motor size but with smaller heads(305 v 315) and a smaller cam(254/260 V 264/270) and I already need 4:10's, the 3:73's keep the motor below its powerband for too long. And in sixth gear the motor lugs bad and makes the sixth gear almost useless. Putting in a bigger cam will make it even worse

5.Okay we agree on something, but the 106 is going to make the motor sound like a pro-stocker and make it a bunch more radical, this is more of a personal preference, I personally would get tired of it real quick, but if Jake wants that, well thats great

6Thats great that you are such a carb expert, and It WAS NOT in the jets, I had the wrong powervalve in it, sorry, thanks for the suggestions though. I am sure you are a carb expert, is Jake? Why make it harder? There is going to be some huge overlap with a cam like he wants. I have my combo dialed in pretty good now and I couldnj't imagin adding 10 degrees of duration to the motor

7. Not BS, I guess we just don't agree on that, again I have almost an identical motor to what he is builiding so I think I would have some insite on this

8. Good idea

I just find this funny how this turned into an anti-yody war. When Frank already stated he was going to run 10.7-1 compression and have 750hp which was perfect, and as soon as I stated 1 single opinion, everything has changed and now I am so wrong and singled out? Maybe I never think I am wrong, and get too defensive and don't realize how I come off, But the majority of people here taking low blows at me, really don't read or comprehend what I am saying. Oh well, I guess I will just have to keep getting pounded into the dirt......what else is funny is how people just ignore my statements or posts that prove anything

[kennyd]

I'd love to stay and chat boys, but I'm out in the garage tearing my engine apart. I've been truly enlightened here. It's as though the godfather of soul himself, James Brown, is standing on the roof of my car yelling "Can you see the light! Can you see the light!"

I've learned so much here in the past 48 hours. Wow. So I've decided to alter my combination. My goal is to make my engine a soggy, pinging, "can't break a 35 series tire loose" turkey turd. Why? Why didn't I think of this before? How could I have been so blind?

Also, Scuderia Ferrari called. They wanted me to thank Yody on their behalf. They too have been enlightened. The F1 team is abandoning costly and complicated traction control. Instead they are adopting this radical engine technology scheme and calling it: "Il Motore di Poop." If all works well, they will transfer the technology to their street cars and cast each valve cover with the word: "Testayody" All valve covers will be painted in a brown krinkle finish instead of red and the prancing horse will forever be replaced with a silhouette of a turkey taking a crap.

I am truly humbled.

wow, i see you must have different rights than i do ! i hope the next time you get on you get banned !

[Matt@RFR]

The last half of this thread is just polishing a turd. I'm out.

[yody]

actaully I think Frank and myself last posts are back on track, maybe there can be some more actual tech and someone who claims to be so much smarter can actually teach me something? Instead of throwing low blows, how bout it?

[68protouring454]

we have smiler motors, theres one big difference,
MINES GONNA KICK YOUR MOTORS ASS!!!
you should do a cranking compression test on it to see if you are at the magical 200 psi mark which means detonating big time on pump gas, what is cranking compression??
you can bet your life mine will end up 185-190 no matter what, then it will run as hard as i will be driving it.
franks has the key, yeah you can build a motor both ways but when wanting to push compression and pump gas you will need overalp to kill compression some, and THATS exactely what i will be doing.
from guys i have talked to, at the pigeon forge event, franks car ran killer on the roads out there, then he scared the **** out of larry running it in the 8th mile.
i am no engine god and thats why i ask opinions, ask alot of people, and use the most common answer, and the common answer is that of tony mamo of afr and frank, 11-1, 26-270 dur @.50 and hold the **** on.
no i am not a carb expert, but know a few guys on and off the board that will help, and i am sure if i have issues next year at power tour there is some genius in orlando who will help
i am just going with the majority of proffessionals who i have asked.
IS THAT SO WRONG??

[68protouring454]

why even respond, you are not envolved and all steve said was cody was wrong about compression, again like cody he was stating opinion, then cody jumped on everyone cause they do not like his opinion, .
so steve should be banned for a rebuttle that could have been 100 times worse, and he prtrayed it in a way i bet cody even laughed.
maybe you should be banned

[yody]

okay.......have fun, there was so much nonsense in that post i can't even begin....

[yody]

okay Matts right this thread officialy sucks now. Thanks jake.........see ya
p.s. sorry frank

[Steve Chryssos]

wow, i see you must have different rights than i do ! i hope the next time you get on you get banned !

Woops! Yeah, you're right.
/Steevo

[awr68]

OK, I'm bored with this...it's not going anywhere!! Cody give up...these guys have a lot more, proven, experiance. Not that you don't know your way around a car...you got yours back on the road and a 100 miles on it!!

Understand Frank likes to take things to the limit and isn't looking for the ultra reliable (conservitive) build here...he wants the most power he can get! Look at the car he didn't hold back on a thing...it's not his style. If he ever wants to sell the car, I'm sure Mike can spend a couple days swapping in a nice SBC or what ever it takes. I personally dig the power house he has planned...it's what he needs for this show...remember this is their marketing tool at the moment and they have to get noticed!

Frank knows better than anyone that I would love to see a blower on the car, but I understand he is truely out of fabrication time and his wicked NA BBC plan really is the only way to make the show. They can always change things around later, I say go for it guys!!! Just imagine what people will think when they hear a bad ass all AL BBC cruising threw the convention center...a lot different than a quiet TT SBC!!!

Keep up the good work guys...tic-tock-tic-tock!!