Need opinions, for Project Prodigy

**ProdigyCustoms** · 09-10-2005

OK, I need opinions. Long story short, the motor we were going to run in Prodigy was an old motor I had. It never really ran right, so we tore it down. Upon tear down we found some bad news in the block, cylinder wall taper. The rotating assembly is perfect and new, so we are getting a new block. A Bill Mitchell Aluminum block!

So now we have a 11th hour decision. We can build the motor NA, no ProCharger, and save 225lbs off the nose and a lot of fabrication issues. I could build it 700HP easy and put some laughing gas on it and easily see 1000HP, or ProCharger it and see the same 1000HP.

Either way it will be fuel injected and all aluminum. My dilemma is it really seems to be a high end PT car, it really needs to be Forced induction. But I hate the bad weight of the intercooler hanging in front of the radiator, that's horrible weight, and the ProCharger hangs off the front of the head, more bad weight. So losing the 225 off the nose will go a LONG ways towards better weight balance. The ProCharger is about 80LBS.

Realistically, 700HP would be PLENTY, but in a world full of 1000HP cars, it needs to have it. Nitrous is no problem for us, very familiar with it, I can get a fogger for it easy. But does it belong on a PT Car?
It really was not even a consideration until we ran into the aluminum block deal, and the chance to ditch the extra weight. It will weigh less then an iron / aluminum head small block. Plus Nitrous puts 30LBS in the trunk to help even more balancing things.

So please vote, and I would really appreciate it if I got some comments from everyone, especially some of you that play with higher end PT cars, you know who you are. I do not want to kill the wow appeal, or value, even though it is not for sale. It still matters.

Just so you remember. Prodigy is full framed 67 RS / SS Convertible, C4 suspension, Double adjustable QA1s, 14" 6 piston Wilwoods all around, 12" wide 295 / 30 / 19s up front, 14" wide 345 / 25 / 20s out back, TKO 600, 500" all aluminum big block, four C5 buckets, Leather, custom one off dash, full console, power everything, video, navigation, etc. It is really a everything car. So I do not want to cheat it. Also, we do plan to enter it is exhibition of speed events, so it needs to work.

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**1970cuda** · 09-10-2005

go with the bottle. personally i think a fogger kit looks killer. worst case you can put the charger on later and jet the fogger way down and use it as a chemical innercooler. you just don't see nicely laid out fogger systems any more. there is a lot of work getting all the individual lines to looks good (run parrallel etc.) just my two cent work. either way if you don't like how it turns out i would be willing to take the car off your hands so that you don't have to look at it......

**69Nova** · 09-10-2005

If a ProCharger system weighs 225lbs I would go NA with the help of nitrous. Because if you plan on driving the car hard on a track 1000HP would make no sense (and you would probly put the tire store owner's kid through college).

Just my 2 cents.
Andrew Petty

**steemin** · 09-10-2005

Frank,
I am not a high end builder. I am just a guy that loves cars.
Let me start by saying that I do not believe for a second that Prodigy needs 1,000 Hp to take its place as a high end elite PT car.
In this regard the design and execution of your car stands on its own.
Furthermore I really do not get the "I have a 1000 hp street car" mentality.
Yes I love lots of power but only if it is truly usable power.
For me 700 N/A HP works.

Scott

**ProdigyCustoms** · 09-10-2005

225LBS is the total I will lose going from a planed iron block ProCharged motor to a Aluminum block Nitrous motor. The motor itself is 150LBS lighter, about half weight. The Procharger / nitrous difference is 80LBS, but the ProCharger is a horrible weight hanging in front of the suspension, And the nitrous move 30LBS to the trunk, so it efectivly is a 110LB weight balance difference. I bet the car is super close to the magic 50/50 balance without the blower. According to my math, best estimate will put her at 3100LBS wet, so its pretty light anyway.

**suh weet** · 09-10-2005

Frank, I am by no means a pro car builder, so take it for what it is worth. Build the car for what you will be doing with it. If you take it to an open road event, what speed do you want to run? I don't know what kind of difference 300hp makes in an event like that, but you really couldn't use a painkiller (nitrous) system. On an open track day, you can't use the juice to much. Nothing beats the wow factor of either a supercharger or a nice set of turbos, though. It is your car, my vote is build it for what you or your son will be using the car most for. Don't let the car take on it's own identity. Like I said, take it for what it is worth. You have been doing this kind of thing for a hell of alot longer than me. Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will be the right decision!

**F70t/a** · 09-10-2005

ProCharger

**MuscleRodz** · 09-10-2005

You need a "C" ""needs neither" in your poll. I don't care for bottles unless you are a stop light racer and they have to be refilled all the time. The Procharger is an unlimited supply of extra go when you want it. Personally the Procharger is not a deal breaker on the car. It has plenty of WOW factor without 1000+ hp.

Mike

**yody** · 09-10-2005

screw both, just build a nasty stroker BBC, you can get an easy 800 horse from a 540 with "decent" street manners. I wouldnt go with spray or the procharger, I would build a motor with a peaky torque curve also, use big everything, that way the motor will be somewhat usable on the street. The procharger is heavy and overdone and is going to create way too much torque instantly. Look at Big red, it is NA

**68protouring454** · 09-10-2005

franks getting a 454 block, and already has the stroker crank brand new 4340 peice, so it will be 496 or there abouts, which is still plenty of cubes
i say alum block n/a all the way
jake

**yody** · 09-10-2005

hmmmm, should of went with the 4.500 bore block.....

**Martin71RS** · 09-10-2005

Frank, 700 is enough as it is... why follow other "high end" PT cars... you are building yours with your vision....

if you "need" the extra HP, go for procharger... since power will allways be available...hitting nitrous and noticing you have an empty bottle when you need it is not "high end" IMO.

so I vote for "C" none of the above.
Martin

**Mean 69** · 09-10-2005

Frank, this is really not a personal knock on you, at all, but

you are building yours with your vision

Why are you asking others what YOU should do to YOUR car? Are you building it for your own enjoyment, or to please or woo others? I suppose if you are building a car that is intended to be a show winning car, you would want to inquire what the judges deem popular (funny side note, my buddy took a local car show trophy because a cool custom twin tubular air cleaner, the judge thought he had twin turbos. Should have seen his face when he told him that he didn't).

I'm sorry, but it just frustrates me to read the threads from folks asking others what they should do on their cars, I just feel that you should build the car the way YOU want.

I'd doubt that you'd be able to go any faster with 1k HP than you would with 700, or even 550 honest HP on a road course. Unless your name is (was) Mark Donahue.

M

**Pzary3233** · 09-10-2005

Supersharged is always cool but with 700 horses N/A do you really need it?? I would think it would just be overkill and more motor than needed in any situation... Either way it's still an awesome car... I agree with the guys about nitrous though... empty bottles would suck!

Paul Z.

**Roger Poirier** · 09-10-2005

Originally Posted by steemin

Frank,
Let me start by saying that I do not believe for a second that Prodigy needs 1,000 Hp to take its place as a high end elite PT car.
In this regard the design and execution of your car stands on its own.
Furthermore I really do not get the "I have a 1000 hp street car" mentality.
Yes I love lots of power but only if it is truly usable power.
For me 700 N/A HP works.

Scott

Agreed! Frank the car is a work of art. No since putting useless horsepower in a vehicle you can't use.

R.P.

**ProdigyCustoms** · 09-10-2005

Originally Posted by yody

hmmmm, should of went with the 4.500 bore block.....

It's a long story, but I have a 496 crate motor I bought, it had 1000 miles on it, that really never ran right. The engine builder told the buyer to screw off, and I against a noew motor and replaced his motor with a motor from us. Come to find out at tear down, it had 8 to 10 thous clearance and taper, and the pistons were falling over, which I kind of expected. It's already 60 over. The rotating assembly is killer and the psitons are fine. So, I am changing the set up with a whack on the heads, a roller and some porting she will easily go 700+

I would only out the hit on it for drag racing as Michael would be hungry for power at the dragstrip. He is used to driving a low 9 second 900HP car since his 15th B Day, so it will take some real power to please him. But you are absolutly correct on a road coarse, nitrous is useless. On the street to as I suspect it will kill the 345s on motor.

I only ask opinions because this car is Michaels, but it is also a calling card and I want to be sure to attract attention.

I am very curious to see what Steve thinks since he has his finger on the trends button.

**67Sally** · 09-10-2005

Show us what you guys can build on motor only and save the rest for ruture upgrades.
W.

**Damn True** · 09-10-2005

No bottle, no procharger. 700 is plenty. 700 is nearly as much as any modern trans-am car runs. You won't be able to put down any more power than that so what would be the point?

**Nine Ball** · 09-10-2005

Nitrous installs don't have the visual "wow!" factor unless they are a nice direct-port layout. The ProCharger will attract more eyes, since it is something to look at. Forced induction cars are attention getters, and I know that you are looking for maximum exposure.

As for the "700hp is enough" replies, keep in mind that this car isn't being built for practicality or grocery-getting. Its a SEMA car, and is supposed to be extreme. Cars at SEMA are typically the most extreme builds of them all, tough competition for those cameras and media guys if you show up with "only" 700 hp. ;)

PS, there are Honda Civics at SEMA with 1000 hp. That should motivate you some haha.

**primate** · 09-10-2005

go for the gas.

700 hp is an enormous amount. i have seen 400 hp cars whoop up on high hp cars at the track. as you know, its only as fast as your suspension and tires will let you go.

but for the strip, the bottle would be awesome!!!!

run 2 10 lb'ers in the back for better weight distribution.

either way, i know its going to be incredible.

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Need opinions, for Project Prodigy

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