SCCA is adding a class just for us!

[71RS/SS396]

Tim,

Actually, my modified stock subframe is better than yours AND you have a weight penalty. Sorry :-)



Those are the rules SCCA has had for a very long time. There are rules and ways to take them to the limit.

Brian

I know, that's what I find ridiculous about it and why I will likely never run an scca event. They claim all their rules are there to level the field but in fact they're not doing that, kudos to you for being smart and taking advantage of them. I suppose running a 315 street tire on the front will be penalized too?

[juniorjohnson]

I think the one thing I've learned now is that it's all about fun. In the end we are all playing for little plastic/wooden trophy's...

I'm building my new car for me. I don't care what class it runs in, no matter the club/series. I want to enjoy the car, and the people that love cars as I do. The big positive here is FINALLY the SCCA has seen some kind of light in terms of American Muscle Cars. I also like that there aren't a lot or rules. Let's face it, how much power can you really use on 200 tw tires anyway? I say build what you want, and have a ton of fun while you do it! :-)

[71RS/SS396]

I think the one thing I've learned now is that it's all about fun. In the end we are all playing for little plastic/wooden trophy's...

I'm building my new car for me. I don't care what class it runs in, no matter the club/series. I want to enjoy the car, and the people that love cars as I do. The big positive here is FINALLY the SCCA has seen some kind of light in terms of American Muscle Cars. I also like that there aren't a lot or rules. Let's face it, how much power can you really use on 200 tw tires anyway? I say build what you want, and have a ton of fun while you do it! :-)

I like to use all the power I have, it might not be the fastest way around the track but it sure is fun.

[SSLance]

I think the one thing I've learned now is that it's all about fun. In the end we are all playing for little plastic/wooden trophy's...

I'm building my new car for me. I don't care what class it runs in, no matter the club/series. I want to enjoy the car, and the people that love cars as I do. The big positive here is FINALLY the SCCA has seen some kind of light in terms of American Muscle Cars. I also like that there aren't a lot or rules. Let's face it, how much power can you really use on 200 tw tires anyway? I say build what you want, and have a ton of fun while you do it! :-)

That is IT...in a nutshell. +1

[soloracerSD]

I think an adjustment to SCCA SM is needed.It's a 4 seater class allowing 100% of bolt on suspension replaced.That has all the streetable and body panel stuff like CAM It has a 4 seater exclusion list for 4 seater sports cars.The list of cars excluded are from the 80s and older.So 944s are out.In our region we have SC FRS a AUDI TT vs 1999 Mustang ,SC Pontiac G8 IRS and M3.FRS and AUDI TT are smaller then the SSM classed RX7 and 944.A wheel base rule might help.
The class has good mod and weight drop allowances for live axle cars.Just another Muscle Car possibility.
CAM can be their first choice.After seeing what sticky tires can do in other classes.They have other choices like ESP, SM,CP for the stickies.I think thats good for regional events.WE have already had deluting class warnings if we have CAM used from other Muscle Car members.So it can go both ways.

[soloracerSD]

[QUOTE=soloracerSD;1042168]I think an adjustment to SCCA SM is needed.It's a 4 seater class allowing 100% of bolt on suspension replaced.That has all the streetable and body panel stuff like CAM It has a 4 seater exclusion list for 4 seater sports cars.The list of cars excluded are from the 80s and older.So 944s are out.In our region we have SC FRS a AUDI TT vs 1999 Mustang ,SC Pontiac G8 IRS and M3.FRS and AUDI TT are smaller then the SSM classed RX7 and 944.A wheel base rule might help.Or add cars to the exclusion list.
The class has good mod and weight drop allowances for live axle cars.Just another Muscle Car possibility.
CAM can be their first choice.After seeing what sticky tires can do in other classes.They have other choices like ESP, SM,CP for the stickies.I think thats good for regional events.WE have already had deluting class warnings if we have CAM used from other Muscle Car members.So it can go both ways.So we satisfied what our vintage PT guys wanted for last year plus.A class for them.CAM says Classic cars and flexibility in rules for regions.Cars newer then 79 have to choose FS,STU,ESP,SM or CP if having 4 seats.Reducing possible deluting.

Your first couple of events classes won't matter to you.So ask to run without class in X.3 events later you will think class ,IT's Fun!

[IndyDave]

The latest issue of SoloMatters is out and it has a blurb on CAM, no turning back now! :D

http://www.solomatters.com/

[Damn True]

Many years ago when I first started planning my build there was no OUSCI, no Goodguys Auto-x, no RTT"x" events. Just local club auto-x, SCCA auto-x and open track days. I knew then that if I wanted to "race" I should build an actual W2W race car and if I wanted to be competitive in Auto-x I should buy a miata or something. Thing is, what I wanted was to build, drive and enjoy a 1968 Camaro. I didn't care then what class Id wind up forced to run in and I don't now because I'm doing it to enjoy the car I want in the way I want. I don't think I'm a rarity in that regard.

This class allows me to do that w/o some yutz protesting my car (whether it's actually faster than his or not....I've seen it happen) and allows me more opportunity to do so.

I think it's a net positive from damned near any perspective.

Will people spend cubic $ to build all out efforts for this? Probably, but not many more than are doing so in other classes or at GG & OUSCI....and if the do? So what. I'll still be having fun. Besides, what are the odds that a region is going to bone 99% of the participants in a class to "equalize" the 1% car?


Now....I just gotta get back to work on my car before my wife completely buries the darn thing in the garage.

As the great Phil Edwards once said, "Contests? Who cares? The guy who's having the most fun is the real winner."


.

[SSLance]

At our local Region awards banquet last weekend there was quite a lot of talk about CAM there and everyone seemed pretty excited about it. One veteran even said "I've never owned an American made muscle car...but this class has me thinking it's about time to".

This excitement level is the reason behind the class in the first place, something new and different to try to spark some interest. I said something to the effect that "as long as we can keep the SCCA types from mucking it all up" and got a big laugh from everyone. I guess it might happen eventually but for the meantime, the wide open run what you brung concept should be fun. I don't see many people building cars just for this class until it becomes national class eligible, then all bets are off.

[rustomatic]

For Nor-Cal people looking for some motivation, the American Auto-X series is supposed to start up in March . . . just in time for me to take my engine out again and put it back...

[IndyDave]

Talked to Raleigh last night. He said CAM is THE hot topic within the SCCA right now and it's all positive. People are very excited about the entire concept. One of the funny common themes is how astonished many are that the SCCA could write a set of rules that's only two pages long! LOL! I'm not kidding! Doug Gill has been fielding tons of calls from regions about the class. Really looking forward to this season.....

[Red67Mustang]

This is exciting, also appropriate when you consider how instrumental the original SCCA Trans Am series (67-72) was in the development of the muscle car movement in the first place...

[Derek69SS]

The problem is this class allows scratch-built tube-frame monsters with a tiny footprint, massive aero, and race car weight distribution (60%+ rear)...which is not anything like what P-T is about. It wouldn't have been that hard to exclude obvious ringers, while disallowing practically nobody.

I'm not complaining, but will be holding off on changing my car until they come up with a place where stock-bodied classic cars on street tires have a legitimate place to play.

This is just a "provisional" class - not a real one. There is no championship on the line.

If you're reading this thread and thinking "Hmm I'd like to build a car to do well in CAM" - my suggestion - don't! If you already have a car come run it, but don't spend any more money to improve its chances in the class.
If the class begins to succeed (as we all hope it will) there will have to be many restrictions added. If I sound frustrated at all in this thread, it's because I don't wish to see honest good-faith competitors throw away money (not to mention time, energy) with anything they do in building for a class state they thought was there to last. We have a large pool of serious car enthusiasts here, that would make great potential long term SCCA members...but if their first few years are spent suffering the pain of relentless "takebacks", they are not likely to stick it out.

I fight for the people! Be careful everyone!

It's great that they're thinking about us, but I'm with Jason 100% on this one.

I'll continue running my Miata in ES until some sort of sanity is brought into this CAM class.

One guy building a car "to the rules" would make the entire target audience outclassed to the point of not being worth entering with any hope of competition. I'm not going to travel long distances to run big SCCA events without hope of competition.

To those who don't care about competition or rules, you can already enter your car in classes that you're outclassed in... run CP or XP or whatever your car fits in. By trying to make the class "all inclusive" they're making 95%+ of the PT cars not viable for the class.

The current rules would allow someone to build something that looks like this, around a T-bucket shell with some carpet and headlights.


There are already plenty of places for "race cars" to compete. What this class *should* be trying to achieve is to level playing field for the majority of PT cars. Solid rear axle, steel body, full glass, etc.

[IndyDave]

It's great that they're thinking about us, but I'm with Jason 100% on this one.

I'll continue running my Miata in ES until some sort of sanity is brought into this CAM class.

One guy building a car "to the rules" would make the entire target audience outclassed to the point of not being worth entering with any hope of competition. I'm not going to travel long distances to run big SCCA events without hope of competition.

To those who don't care about competition or rules, you can already enter your car in classes that you're outclassed in... run CP or XP or whatever your car fits in. By trying to make the class "all inclusive" they're making 95%+ of the PT cars not viable for the class.

The current rules would allow someone to build something that looks like this, around a T-bucket shell with some carpet and headlights.


There are already plenty of places for "race cars" to compete. What this class *should* be trying to achieve is to level playing field for the majority of PT cars. Solid rear axle, steel body, full glass, etc.

You do realize that CAM is a REGIONAL ONLY class? Who's going to build a car "to the rules" or travel "hundreds of miles" just to win a regional event? You do also realize that the rules for CAM are pretty much a copy of Goodguy's Rod and Custom rules and the A-Mod T-bucket some are so fearful of hasn't materialized over there? If it were to happen it would happen there as there is a monetary incentive to winning. You do realize that according to CAM rules, that A-Mod T-bucket would have to have all street equipment, a finished interior, and be titled, licensed, and insured?

SCCA is reporting that they have been getting a huge response to CAM and it's all been positive and the people the class is trying to attract are contacting them thanking them for creating CAM. That's the whole point of CAM, give people with Pro-Touring cars another place to play with rules they are used to. No longer will they show up at an SCCA Regional event and be classed in a way where they have no hope of being competitive because their car wasn't built to a rule set. They're hot rods, street machines, customs. They don't follow rules other than those imposed on them by the BMV to allow them to drive their creations on public streets legally. If someone does build that A-Mod T-Bucket just make sure it has at least 2 seats, weighs at least 3000#, 200TW tires, has all it's street equipment in place and works, and has a valid title, registration, insured, and current license plates and you'll be welcomed. In the end this class is about having fun, all that's on the line is a $1.00 dash plaque.

[Derek69SS]

I own Model T's (original ones) a "finished" interior is a rubber mat on the floor and cardboard door panels. Lighting equipment is a pair of headlights and one taillight. No wipers, no brake lights, no blinkers, no heat, no defrost, no mirrors, etc. All legal to register, license, and insure in all 50 states without any of that equipment because it was never on it from the factory.

That may be an extreme example, but it's what the rules allow, and PAX will have to take into consideration.

A slightly less extreme example would be a Factory Five coupe with big tires and big HP.


Also, per the rules, a modified 2014 Corvette will be legal as well? Rick Ruth has already adjusted CAM PAX to account for that.
How is this a class "for musclecars" when anything resembling a musclecar will be the least competitive car allowed?

You guys have fun, I'll be competing elsewhere.

[SSLance]

There's always one or two of them around...aren't there...

There is a guy in our Region that races a real fast C6, he mentioned also that his car would be legal in CAM and jokingly considered trying to find some 200 TW tires to fit it and compete with us. Not sure if he was trying to get a rise out of me or what, but I told the group sure, bring it on. Him bringing that car to run with us in CAM will be seen as exactly what it is...and I'd rather deal with that than write 30 extra pages of rules to try to prevent that from happening and screwing up the class for the rest of us.

Right away he mentioned that while he could do that, he'll just keep running in the class he built his car for. I think that is the common sense approach and hopefully more will take that avenue than won't...but I'm not going to upset the apple cart just to prevent the few from doing just that.

Now if another guy that has never autocrossed before comes along with a basically stock C6 and is told about CAM and decides to give it a try running with us, I say bring it on as well and will take the guy under my wing and help him every way I can. It is my opinion that he'll have a better time running with and against us in CAM than the other fully prepped C6s with experienced drivers in their class and might be more apt to come back time and time again and become a regular.

Isn't that what this class is all about?

[IndyDave]

I own Model T's (original ones) a "finished" interior is a rubber mat on the floor and cardboard door panels. Lighting equipment is a pair of headlights and one taillight. No wipers, no brake lights, no blinkers, no heat, no defrost, no mirrors, etc. All legal to register, license, and insure in all 50 states without any of that equipment because it was never on it from the factory.

That may be an extreme example, but it's what the rules allow, and PAX will have to take into consideration.

A slightly less extreme example would be a Factory Five coupe with big tires and big HP.


Also, per the rules, a modified 2014 Corvette will be legal as well? Rick Ruth has already adjusted CAM PAX to account for that.
How is this a class "for musclecars" when anything resembling a musclecar will be the least competitive car allowed?

You guys have fun, I'll be competing elsewhere.

Not to be sarcastic, but with that attitude, no one will miss you.

[mpozzi]

Well said, Dave. And most regions will set a MY limit for CAM as well. I think SFR has theirs at 1978 or close.

As a start-up class for regional Solo events, CAM will work just fine. Over time and when CAM becomes so popular to gain SCCA's attention for Tours, Divisionals, and the Nationals, then the rules will need more limitations and definitions to keep things fair and equal.

Mary Pozzi

[Bryce]

In our region the rules read pre78 for CAM. Is that the national rule?

At the end of the weekend, we don't win ANYTHING except a great time with friends. And all the muscle cars get to run together. I was at the san diego region's first event today and had a blast with at least 10 muscle cars running CAM.

[Damn True]

Pics and video my man!