lsx really all that great?

[Todd in Vancouver]

I want a T-shirt that says

"Ron = Wisdom"

;)



Nice post

Amen, that was really well thought out and pretty much sums it up. Put a fork in it this ones done!

[yellow1098Greg]

What I don't get with the LSx is the reasoning that goes into the swap, its all numbers and logic. Which is great! but begs the question, using that same reasoning for putting an LSx engine in your car, why on earth would you ever drive anything made in the 20th century? People will say you have to spend sooo much money to get a SBC to perform like an LSx... this coming from guys that are spending sooo much money to get their gen 1 camaro to handle like a gen 5 camaro. If the numbers argument works so well with the motor, it works equally well with the platform. Motors can be the heart and soul of a car, sad to think of the tri power GTOs that have an LSx because "the numbers were better", or someone can't afford to get their hands dirty doing routine maintenance the LSx engines don't need.

And for God's sake, if someone is so concerned about mpg, maybe the Prius is really the right car for that person.

This is a great point.....Is it just the outside shell of the older muscle that everyone loves? Or is it the sound, smell, feel, simplicity, the total package? I guess it's different for everyone. Both motors can be made to make tons of power but I don't think one is "better" than the other....I personally like those things about old motors and if I want new tech I would just buy a new corvette. A mix of both for functionality to compete against any car I can see, and what I personally want. But there is something about my old school big displacement power raping new computer geeks with there 70k plus cars and saying man you spent a lot of money and I'll still show you my tail lights while you smell my carb fumes!

[ho428]

This is a great point.....Is it just the outside shell of the older muscle that everyone loves? Or is it the sound, smell, feel, simplicity, the total package? I guess it's different for everyone. Both motors can be made to make tons of power but I don't think one is "better" than the other....I personally like those things about old motors and if I want new tech I would just buy a new corvette. A mix of both for functionality to compete against any car I can see, and what I personally want. But there is something about my old school big displacement power raping new computer geeks with there 70k plus cars and saying man you spent a lot of money and I'll still show you my tail lights while you smell my carb fumes!

Kinda turns things around huh?
I like running an engine most people don't know how to work on and some can't even recognize, but still puts out enough hp and tq to counter-rotate the planet. A Pontiac.
I get calls from LS guys that have an old car their working on either for themselves or someone else: How's this work? How's that work? Jet's? Power Valves? Air bleeds? Timing? Advance springs? WTF? Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my.

But, don't ask me what wiring harness works with an LS in a first Gen F, or what injectors size to use. Map sensor? Try Google maps, only computer map I know anything about.

[uxojerry]

Old School all the way!!! lol. I cant wait for my next build where I yank an LSX out of a classic muscle car, to drop in a built SBC or BBC! lol.

[1965gp]

Thought about putting a LS motor in my 70 GTO and stuck with a traditional pontiac. I couldn't get over how dated a 68 Camaro with an LT1/LT4 looks today (that was badass in 2000). In my mind when switching to modern power you are committing to continually upgrade to keep the car current.

Honestly- that is the attraction for some people- the evolution of their car. Not me- I have a lot of cars and really only want to build them once. 10 yrs from now my GTO will still look right as it sits today. If it had LS power and C6 wheels it would look like a dated project.

[shortrack]

Honestly- that is the attraction for some people- the evolution of their car. Not me- I have a lot of cars and really only want to build them once. 10 yrs from now my GTO will still look right as it sits today. If it had LS power and C6 wheels it would look like a dated project.

Never really thought of that but you're right. Saw a beautiful 57 Nomad pure show car last year at a show with a TPI in it. It would have been cutting edge in its day.

[1965gp]

Now if that was a TPI in an 80's Monte Carlo SS it would (at least in my mind) stand the test of time because it would be period correct. But, like you said in a 50's car- no matter how nice the car is now dated.

[shortrack]

Now if that was a TPI in an 80's Monte Carlo SS it would (at least in my mind) stand the test of time because it would be period correct. But, like you said in a 50's car- no matter how nice the car is now dated.

Yeah the car was beautiful, it was this pearl tangerine a foot thick with a tan leather interior, it looked like the car had never ever been driven but the uber polished TPI showed it was a give or take a 20 25 yr old build.

[uxojerry]

My car project has taken much longer to complete than I expected. Two years ago I bought an SBC 427, 8 stack efi, and 565hp. That power figure today is below par, as several SBC crate motors are available with 650hp. The car is not on the road yet and I am updating the top end for 700hp to try and stay current. Regardless of future trends, I am done at 700hp due to the limits of the drive train.

Two years ago, very few BBC NA pump gas builds were in the 800hp range. Now there are a lot of builds well above 900hp and 1000hp is easy to get, if desired. My point is in engine tech, nothing is static. Racing is still dominated by BBC/SBC and even SBF. LSX is making big headway in Forced induction and will probably be long lived as FI only, in the 1000hp range. Above 1000hp and most will turn to BBC.

Any LS motor with an LSX, RHS, ERL, or DART LS Next block will have some legs and the LS7, as an NA motor only. The rest of the LS engines are limited by bore size, and/or 4 bolt heads. GM must have designed these motors to become obsolete as they turned out new engines.

Wait until GM comes out with their new twin turbo LT(?) engine for the ZR1 follow-on. Will anybody want an LS9 based car? The safest course of action for a time less car, is to stick with time less architecture. It is cheaper to update than it is to replace!

[carguykeith]

I still say if you're talking anything besides sbc/bbc than LS is the best power plant for pro touring for the dollar. I have a (maybe) 600/600 combo that I have north of $10k into, gets single digit MPG, and literally every single piece on the motor is aftermarket or HIGHLY modified. If I were building the same power level today I could get a stock LSA, throw headers and and a $100 LS9 cam in it for less cash, get 20+ MPG, have 100k+ reliability and replacement parts available anywhere in the country. Who gives a sh*t if it looks outdated in 5-10 years, hell we may all be driving electric cars by then...

[dug]

I want a T-shirt that says

"Ron = Wisdom"

;)

Nice post

Absolutely. I feel like these threads can conjur up all sorts of emotional opinions from people but that was a well thought out and thorough post. Well said.

[mikesanto70]

29 mpgs w/ 4.10's wow, what would you be getting w/ 3.23's lol... I have been considering a stock motor Ls1, LS2, LS3, LQ9/LQ4 with a magnacharger in a 70-72 El Camino Pro Touring set up of course instead of a fully built 12:1 AFR/Ported L92 headed stroker monster N/A LSX for the efficiency of getting fuel mileage like yours because a built motor drinks gas but the SC will give me my power goals and keep fuel mileage I just did not know I could have that much gear and still make 30mpg hwy! What RPM's are you turning at say 75-80 mph in 6th?

Mike S
Scottsdale, AZ

[mikesanto70]

If LS swaps cost twice as much as they currently do, they would still be worth it. Once you come to the dark side you'll never want anything to do with a gen 1 sbc ever again. My car makes 450rwhp and still pulls down 29mpg on the highway with a t56 and 4:10s.

29 mpgs w/ 4.10's wow, what would you be getting w/ 3.23's lol... I have been considering a stock motor Ls1, LS2, LS3, LQ9/LQ4 with a magnacharger in a 70-72 El Camino Pro Touring set up of course instead of a fully built 12:1 AFR/Ported L92 headed stroker monster N/A LSX for the efficiency of getting fuel mileage like yours because a built motor drinks gas but the SC will give me my power goals and keep fuel mileage I just did not know I could have that much gear and still make 30mpg hwy! What RPM's are you turning at say 75-80 mph in 6th?

Mike S
Scottsdale, AZ

[uxojerry]

Hold on, 4:10 gears and 30mpg, hmmm. Soon it will be 4:10s and 40mpg with the Gen 5 crate, lol.

[mikes70]

^^^^exactly.

I just did it in my 2nd gen and if you would of asked me right after the swap if it was worth it i would of said NO. Too many hoops, not easy, not super hard either. After doing said install (and i've had many of problems with this swap related to the LS but not DUE to the LS swap) i drove it. Then I drove the sh$t out of it. And Wow. soooo different. Plus did the Goodguys to Texas road tour, avged 80 mph, did a few runs up to a 100, 3:73's & T-56 and got 24.89 mpg ( i only checked mpg so anally cause my new tank would'nt take more than 7+/- gallons at a time) over 2085 miles. I though i was getting 20+ but when i crunched the final numbers, 24.89. So i'm not penny pinchen over gas (my dd is an Trailblazer SS), but this swap will pay for itself over time and great linear hp as we get slideways.....my 2 sense....Miie

[Todd in Vancouver]

I've read, read and then read some more on the LS but had never owned one. That being said I was a believer and then I purchased a new Camaro to drive until my '67 is done being built. That was two weeks ago and all I have to say is WOW! If you are not a convert then please by all means get a hold of me because I have a fresh 475hp 350 SBC that has been dyno'd and broken in and I'd be happy to sell it to you so I can go buy an LS.

[bikefreak600]

attention all LS nut swingers please carefully read this article. a 402 LS stoker vs a 408sbc stroker with same intake, carb, comparable heads & cams. when the engines are built similar, there is not much difference at all HAHAHA
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...s/viewall.html

[bikefreak600]

attention all LS nut swingers please carefully read this article. a 402 LS stoker vs a 408sbc stroker with same intake, carb, comparable heads & cams. when the engines are built similar, there is not much difference at all HAHAHA
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...s/viewall.html
the ls has a few perks as in factory efi & gas milage. but the LS motor sounds like ****.

[Z06vet]

That article is nearly 7 years old. Both are cool motors. I'd take either one. I don't dislike the old sbc. Give me the choice & I'll swing my LS nuts. Add fuel injection, fuel mileage, and nealry 100lbs less with aluminum block & I'm now swinging some serious LS nuts. It seems that more of the top running cars are swinging them too. There are some bad ass SBC/BBC/Pontiac powered cars though. It seems like you're taking it personally. Enjoy what you have, you dont have to run an LS. There is no denying the easy power potential of the LS. And there are some cheap ones out there to be had, especially if you can buy wrecked vehicle or complete pullout. I've enjoyed reading this discussion and to see what you guys have done with various motors etc. Swing what ya like....

[kimosabi]

It's all about personal preference for me. LSx is still just another pushrod V8 IC-engine, sure you get EFI and better control over every little drop of fuel going into each cylinder, more efficient use of electric energy to each cylinder, better timing control, stronger mains, block etc etc etc. But that should only be expected after so many years of engine development. Is the LSx engines a "touch from God"? Nah, they are better in almost every way compared to early SBC, but if I wanted a super modern Camaro with greater mileage than my 2nd gen, I'd get a new Camaro.

My two cents on the matter.