Oh crap, is Protouring becoming too mainstream?

[yody]

Well, i don't know if this is a sign or something but Some dufus I know, told me today that on his 68 firebird that he was going to put 20" torque thrusts on the back of his 68 firebird. I told him that that was going to be detremental to handling and ride quality and that it might look funny since he will have 18's on the front. He said that he wants a protouring car, and that protouring cars don't care about going fast in a straight line and that they are supposed to have baer brakes and big wheels and that a lot of it is about looks!!!!! I went on to tell him that protouring is the exact opposite, it is all about performance including straight line. And that protouring is about getting max performance at everything and still retain comfort and ride quality with all the latest improvements/amendities. I think with all the mag exposure and such that people think that protouring is just about lowered cars with big billet wheels and "Baer Brakes" I mean i am one to talk with 19" wheels but i do have tires that have just as much of a sidewall as any 18" tire. I always have bascically wanted/or built cars that did everything, handling,comfort,braking, drag racing, and the latest stuff. way before i even heard the term "pro-touring" but it wasn't till i found this site and started to hear the terms that the definition of what kind of cars i liked was born.(about 3 years ago) I really enjoy this style because it is original and different, i hate mainstream, i like to have something really cool and differnet, and it starting to seem that everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.....which is fine, but it seems that a wide variety of people have no real idea what this is really about. Now my car isn't some one of a kind, everything fabricated, super duper car, but it is well thought out, very nice, car, that Is not just big wheels, brakes, autometer dash, and manual transmission. I think it is good pro-touring is getting bigger. but i hate to see it go the way of prostreet, and this guy just kinda pushed a button.

[zbugger]

He's mistaking "Pro-Show" with Pro-Touring. He has to see the light. Maybe he will when he finally crashes because he's made his car undriveable.

[jannes_z-28]

I think you are right,

I have seen many cars over here this summer with nothing more than tall wheels. It is patethic to see 17" TT2s and small drumbrakes behind them.

I beleive that many guys just think that ProTouring is only big wheels and that they haven't understood the concept in general.

We who "know" will be satisfied with what we are doing but it will for sure make us disappear in the crowd.

Common trends are often started by enthusiasts that take it to the limit, the followers usually takes the simpler approach.


A "real" Pro Touring car will stand out when the performance is shown.


Jan

[yody]

yeah, hes the type of guy, who wants all the best/most expensive "bolt on" goodies, doesn't do any work of his own, and NEVER drives his car fast at all or push it in anyway, not that i condone street racing or anythign but i don't think he has ever raced anyone in his life. I think he is more into the bragging rights and the looks of nice parts. I think he should bolt on some tubular control arms, since they look so coooool! He should probably own a hotrod not a muscle car. I hate to rag on the guy,but at least he is in to amercan cars, even though his first car was a civic SI!!! I guess he is entitled to his own taste/opinion, but i don't think he should go around telling everyone he has a protougin car because he has an aluminum radiator, Baer brakes, and 20" torque thrusts

[yody]

yeah i can't wait for all the top builders of show cars to start making "pro-touring" cars that never see any type of track/performance time, kinda like that yellow mustange that boyd built. I guess i want my cake and eat it to. Wouldn't it be great if there were a lot of aftermarket companies and lots of support for pro-touirng but still keep it a "different" style that wasn't mainstream. I just can't wait for the day where people ask my if my car is protouring than why don't i have baer brakes!

[Martin71RS]

first corner will tell if it is PT or not.....
some dont consider my car PT (because I dont have baers or 400HP ?)....they just didn't see me drive yet
Just let those guys THINK they have a PT car...


Martin

[XcYZ]

The term Pro-Touring is thrown around way too much. It's becoming diluted, watered down. Here's a thought for you - so the guy with the firebird has stock suspension and wants to call it PT, and there's a guy here that wants to go PT with a 97 Mountaineer. With all the good parts bolted on the Mountaineer, it still won't run with the basically stock Firebird. See where I'm going? At what point does it go from being a Tuner (bolt on performance) to Pro-Touring?

[Little Bob]

Does anyone know what the true definition of Pro-Touring is. The reason I ask this question is, because I'm trying to build my car as a Pro-Tourer (if thats a word). But I still don't want to get lost in a croud of muscle cars with big wheels and tires. I want my car to handle as good as it's going to look. I used to do a lot of auto-x and time trials. I want my car to handle as good or better than my Neon Acr. I also want it to look like a kick ass show car too.

So the true definition would be great to know.

Thanks

[XcYZ]

I'm with you, I want the total package. I want it to look as nice as it handles, I want it to accelerate as hard as it brakes.

As for a definition... I don't see how that would change anything that I'm doing. I have inspiration from several different types of racing, builders, and cars. I'm taking what I love about each and blending it in to my build.

[Pro-touring towncar]

there's a guy here that wants to go PT with a 97 Mountaineer. With all the good parts bolted on the Mountaineer, it still won't run with the basically stock Firebird.

That would be me. I will lay money down that a Saleen XP8( explorer) would out run with a basicly stock firebird. Well the definition of pro-touring that I read out of Tony H's book was taking a vehicle that had moderate performance( all around , handling,brakes Etc) and improving on it. That is what I was wanting to do with a mountaineer, and I AM doing with my town car.

Like it says above it is pro-mine if you don't like it :LOL:

Tim

[MrQuick]

way before i even heard the term "pro-touring" but it wasn't till i found this site and started to hear the terms that the definition of what kind of cars i liked was born.(about 3 years ago) I really enjoy this style because it is original and different, i hate mainstream, i like to have something really cool and differnet, and it starting to seem that everyone is jumping on the bandwagon I think it is good pro-touring is getting bigger. but i hate to see it go the way of prostreet, and this guy just kinda pushed a button.

Yody, you gotta remember in a way we are all jumping on the band wagon. We are all building in this style,al beit some earlier than others.Growth is a normal factor with something new.
Ok it was ok when you got into it now you want it to stop growing?
Just because something is going mainsteam doesnt mean its not going to be fun for us. Remember a movement is only as strong as its practitioners.Pro street is still alive in some parts of the country just not as main stream as it use to be.
Lets try to educate that big rims on a car isn't pro-touring,it does seem to be a real common practice of hot rodding these days.
As far as bolt on stuff, I think im faily talented but I cant weld up good looking valve covers,weld up a custom intake,machine a transmission case or fab up a rear end girdle so where eles would these parts come from. I like throwing bolt on stuff. How eles would it go on? I don't think we should look down on each other cause we gotta pay to get a paint job or buy parts from a vendor. dont be afraid yody we got you

[Little Bob]

Yody, you gotta remember in a way we are all jumping on the band wagon. We are all building in this style,al beit some earlier than others.Growth is a normal factor with something new.
Ok it was ok when you got into it now you want it to stop growing?
Just because something is going mainsteam doesnt mean its not going to be fun for us. Remember a movement is only as strong as its practitioners.Pro street is still alive in some parts of the country just not as main stream as it use to be.
Lets try to educate that big rims on a car isn't pro-touring,it does seem to be a real common practice of hot rodding these days.
As far as bolt on stuff, I think im faily talented but I cant weld up good looking valve covers,weld up a custom intake,machine a transmission case or fab up a rear end girdle so where eles would these parts come from. I like throwing bolt on stuff. How eles would it go on? I don't think we should look down on each other cause we gotta pay to get a paint job or buy parts from a vendor. dont be afraid yody we got you

I don't think Yody has a problem with bolting things on to create a car. Just look at his car. It has a big block Chevy in a Pontiac and Corvette brakes. It also has a lot of other bolt on's too. None of which take away from the car. The only thing I could not find is; a roll cage. So does this car have any track time, can't tell. I personally think people should be able to create what ever they want to. Everyone works just as hard as everyone else. Lets not put labels on people for what they drive. Just because I drive an Integra GSR to work every day. Doesn't make me a "Ricer". I like to be able to do 140 mph when I want and still get great gas milage. Maybe some people can't afford to do the dollar projects that are on this site. I know I can't. So watch those people and advise them to what they are doing so they don't waste thier money or get hurt.

All gear heads need to stick together.

[RobM]

Hi im rob i used to post as faststcarinschool on the old board. I think we should all just build the cars the way we like them and forget about this classification stuff, now im all about pro-touring/g-machine performance, but im not building my car to fit a class. I just know that my car will turn and stop and accelerate as well as my current driving skills and funds will alow. If this guy is all about looks then let him be that way he wont give good handling cars a bad name. just because his car lacks performance and suposedly gives pro-touring a bad name because he has stock suspension and "pathetic" drum brakes doesnt mean any of our cars are less cool or well engineered

[ZZ430]

Hi im rob i used to post as faststcarinschool on the old board. I think we should all just build the cars the way we like them and forget about this classification stuff, now im all about pro-touring/g-machine performance, but im not building my car to fit a class. I just know that my car will turn and stop and accelerate as well as my current driving skills and funds will alow. If this guy is all about looks then let him be that way he wont give good handling cars a bad name. just because his car lacks performance and suposedly gives pro-touring a bad name because he has stock suspension and "pathetic" drum brakes doesnt mean any of our cars are less cool or well engineered

Well said.

[Chuck Byram]

I also thought I invented what's become Pro-Touring about three years ago. I wanted to build a race car for the street like Shelby did with the '65 and '66 Mustangs but with a/c and a killer stereo. Then I saw an article or two in PHR and CHP which led me to this site. The rest is history. I've always been somebody who wants to corner and stop as well as go fast. My '89 IROC is far from a finished product but it does have a full on Global West suspension, quick ratio steering setup, rebuilt and beefed up 700R4, Wilwood 13" front brakes and Michelin Pilot Sports for the Fikse 17s. I'm fairly handy but nobody mistakes me for a mechanic so most of the work on my car has been done by Lance Clontz and his guys at California Street Machine in Suisun City, CA. Good Lord willin' and the creek don't rise they're going to build me a motor soon.
I think the point is to enjoy what you're doing with the cars and not worry about the posers and wannabes. They'll come around as their knowledge (and budgets) grow. If they don't, oh well. Knowledgeable folks like yourself will always be able to look at a car and know it for what it is.
Best,
Chuck

[RatMalibu]

I follow the "Pro-Mine" trend......if someone doesn't like it, eh well they're not driving it :D

[Little Bob]

I follow the "Pro-Mine" trend......if someone doesn't like it, eh well they're not driving it :D

I like the Pro-Mine attitude. Everyone should have that attitude.

[yody]

Vince; I didnt' say i didn't want protouring to stop growing, as a matter of fact i said i hoped it didn't. My main problem is that there a bunch of dufus's out there building halfway cars and going duhh, and telling everyone its protouring, in effect i can see the general population being uninformed and ruining the name protouring.
I also never said i invented protouring, I merely stated that this was the type of cars i liked and all of the attributes of protouring style cars was what i wanted. I think the influence came from really liking italian/german high end cars when i was little. I used to get the really big books and memorize all the specs on them. Then i met muscle cars and kinda put the two together. I had never built has a high end car as this before due to money constraints. Also this site and the internet in general has greatly inabled me to learn more and really find the way "how" to build a car like this. Yes there are plenty of bolt ons on my car. The brakes were not a bolt on, and an engine isn't really a bolt on, most everything on my car is somewhat universal and wasn't really meant to bolt directly on the car, except for anything left that is stock. But it is not nearly as radical as many cars on this site. But i think this car will be a tranistion car for me. I am only 23 and have a ton more time to build something more radical. I really like highly detailed cars, and that came over going the radical way on some things. Also when I started the car it wasn't going to be nearly this expensive or complicated. Now next time, I can set out to build a car entirely, and preplan everything and hopefull build a radical car that isn't just a typical first gen camaro with your average goodys. There is nothing wrong with bolt ons, people put aftermarket bolt on front clips, aftermaket bolt on rear suspension(well actuall weld on) bolt on kits to drop in LS1's already engineered, bolt on adapters for T56's, bolt on tubular control arms, bolt on hydroboost, bolt on custom dashs(made mine myself, no on makes one for my car) bolt on custom seats, even pre made roll bars. So most of the time everything is going to "bolt on" i mean what else is going to hold your car together rather than bolts?? The problem is when people bolt on one or 2 simple things and suddenly think there car has made a transformation! I got me Baer brakes which are really just C4 calipers wiht someones crosdrilled rotors, and some tubular control arms and some 20's. Now i can tell everyone my car is a major handling car built as a protouring machine! Obvioulsy there aint much i can do rather than inform them(which I did) but i thought i would vent a little
p.s. i didn't put a rollbar in the car, because 1. the car wasn't planned from the begining and i didn't think i would go that far and 2. you don't necessarily need a roll bar to go to the track for the day and 3. it is a mostly street car and i don't want to have to climb in and out over some bar. It guaranteed will go to the track. That doesnt necessarily mean i am going to be driving a race car, it is going to take me a few tries before i even now what i am doing as far as driving skills on a track go. Maybe i willl get hooked and build a car way more radical for the track?

[Stu Seitz]

I follow the "Pro-Mine" trend......if someone doesn't like it, eh well they're not driving it :D

Ditto, I couldn't have said it better my self. A lot of people in my auto classes said I was making a big mistake by putting a small LS1 in my car, instead of a big block .

[slck6t9]

Is there a step by step checklist we wonna-be's are suppose to follow and until we fill in all the squares we can't consider our cars pro-touring? If that's the case the percentage of real pro-touring cars on this site is pretty low. I've only seen a couple of cars that could classify as having the "checklist" filled out. Don't get me wrong I would like to have everything that is said to be on a car to make it pro-touring but money is an object and always will be for that matter. Until then I would like to consider myself as trying and be on that pro-touring band wagon. I'm also of the belief of the it's Pro-Mine attitude. Just my little feelings.

Scott