1965 Falcon Coyote Project

[protasone]

Hello everyone! I have been searching around for a while for anyone that has put a Coyote motor in their Falcon. Has anyone heard of anyone doing this? My 65 project was originally going to be a 302 or 351 with an AOD. I have already installed the TCI M2 front end and the TCI 4-Link rear with a Currie 9" with 3.89's . I really like the idea of the Coyote but cant find anyone to look to for any guidance that has done this in this particular car. The closest I can find is a 65 Stang. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!!

[Jetfixr320]

Hello everyone! I have been searching around for a while for anyone that has put a Coyote motor in their Falcon. Has anyone heard of anyone doing this? My 65 project was originally going to be a 302 or 351 with an AOD. I have already installed the TCI M2 front end and the TCI 4-Link rear with a Currie 9" with 3.89's . I really like the idea of the Coyote but cant find anyone to look to for any guidance that has done this in this particular car. The closest I can find is a 65 Stang. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!!


I was just reading in Modified Mustangs & Fords about the Coyote motor. Listed dimensions of the engine and different ford cars.
Also it said several of the aftermarket company's were working on or have kits to install them. I know for sure it listed Rod & Custom Motorsports.

Maybe give TCI a call?

It will probably be a change to your motor mounts. And you will need a power steering pump kit if your running a power rack. I thought i read that the coyote doesn't have a pump mounted to it?

[protasone]

Good call Jet. I spoke to Sal (general manager) at TCI today at length about my "project". Really cool guy who seemed to want to temporarily talk me down from the ledge :) To start with, you basically need to fab the whole front clip and even into the cabin (push dash board back) and of course the trans tunnel etc. Not impossible but apparently more money and labor intensive than anyone is willing to put out hence "No one has done it." ..........Yet. I WILL do this.......someday :) Would have been nice to have a "one of a kind". The Coyote bug has bitten me and I always like a challenge. But not this time with this car.

For now (reluctantly) I'm taking Sal's advice and just sticking with building a bad ass small block and having fun with the car. I know someone will do this and am still surprised no one has yet!

Cant wait to see it when it happens!!

[Doodler]

Not a coyote, but still a mod motor.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/IMG_0849_zps276ff585-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/IMG_0850_zps3b672591-1.jpg

We pushed the firewall back 2". The car has a tube chassis now because by the time we redid the rear end and front end, we might as well just do the whole damn thing.

[protasone]

Thanks for the feedback Doodler! Nice! Looks like it fits pretty well!! I have a few questions if you don't mind. Is that mod the same dimensions as a Coyote? What are your plans for a trans? Did you need to make any adjustments under the dash, steering column etc? I assume you built a frame behind the new firewall for lateral rigidity correct? That looks really great and you are making me think I can actually do this now.

[tigerracer]

Protasone, I don't understand why installing a coyote motor in your Falcon would be to much different than installing it in a Mustang. The Falcon and Mustang just about share the same chassis, except the Falcon is a bit wider. I am installing a coyote in a 66 Mustang with TCI suspension and depending on what motor mount you use and what trans you pick determines the amount of cutting. I havent seen anybody get into the dash area. My thread is 66 Mustang, Coyote, T56, TCI

Dale Akuszewski
Dales Restorations
San Berdoo, Ca

[Bryce]

the falcon engine compartment has 3" less room between the shock towers and the firewall. Also the frame rails are 1" narrower on the falcon.

[protasone]

Hey thanks guys. Wow! Hey Bryce! I have been following your build for a while now. You've done a great job and provided tons of inspiration! If I remember right didn't you actually considered a mod motor? This whole thing doesn't seem to be as complicated as people are leading me to believe. I'm either OVER or UNDER thinking it. Sal at TCI seemed to kind of talk me out of it. If you have a moment I would love to hear what you think about this Bryce. Forgive me if your answer is in your 80 page build thread somewhere already :) I have viewed so many other threads now I cant remember s**t. Thanks!!

[Sales-TCI-Eng]

Sal and I certainly have differing opinions on these types of things. There is a running joke inside the office here about when I was in sales. They'd call them "Jason orders" because I was always thinking outside the box and placing orders they wanted nothing to do with. After all, I was the one that put the order in for "lowfast" who is running our Custom IFS 64-70 Mustang front end on his Falcon. Plus I enjoy a challenge just like many of our customers.

Having said that you'd be opening a gigantic can of worms by going with the Coyote. That engine is as big as a damn Hemi(side to side). Just be prepared to not only modify and or move the firewall, relocate the master cylinder and probably not have enough room for a booster. If you go with a manual tranny you'll be making a new tunnel to accomodate it. You'll probably be looking at custom headers also.

-Jason

[protasone]

There. It fits LOL! :rotfl:74293

[ramlinman]

"No one has done it". don't let that stop you. if it's what you want go for it. and don't be afraid of being the pioneer on such a build. i say go for it

[Tincup]

"No one has done it". don't let that stop you. if it's what you want go for it. and don't be afraid of being the pioneer on such a build. i say go for it

How hard can it be......

Pick up this months Hot Rod, it has all the dimensions on the Coyote ( it is actually shorter than a 289).

[Jetfixr320]

How hard can it be......

Pick up this months Hot Rod, it has all the dimensions on the Coyote ( it is actually shorter than a 289).

X2 on the comparison to a 289. That's what Modified Mustangs & Fords said also. Get a tranny tunnel from a late model mustang and your done with that mod at least.

Call R&C Motorsports and see what William or Willy have to say.

[Sales-TCI-Eng]

Call R&C Motorsports and see what William or Willy have to say.

^^^ Make sure not to do this.
Pretty much anything they tell you won't apply to our front end. Our crossmember tucks up tighter against the frame rails to allow more ground clearance while sitting low. This also puts the control arm pickup points closer together for more camber gain which couldn't have been done otherwise(uppers are as low as they can go on top of the frame rails). Sure, Falcons with our front end may have less space in the compartment but we feel it was a necessary trade off for improved geometry and ground clearance.

u6d8vkuO3mg

-J

[Jetfixr320]

Sal and I certainly have differing opinions on these types of things. There is a running joke inside the office here about when I was in sales. They'd call them "Jason orders" because I was always thinking outside the box and placing orders they wanted nothing to do with. After all, I was the one that put the order in for "lowfast" who is running our Custom IFS 64-70 Mustang front end on his Falcon. Plus I enjoy a challenge just like many of our customers.

Having said that you'd be opening a gigantic can of worms by going with the Coyote. That engine is as big as a damn Hemi(side to side). Just be prepared to not only modify and or move the firewall, relocate the master cylinder and probably not have enough room for a booster. If you go with a manual tranny you'll be making a new tunnel to accomodate it. You'll probably be looking at custom headers also.

-Jason

And thats coming from the guy that sold a Mustang kit to a Falcon guy. :-)

Not saying to do what they say, but I would be curious to see what the response would be for "Their" IFS.

If the Coyote is shorter, there shouldn't be much firewall issue. I've seen more then one Mustang II style IFS crossmember notched out for oil pan clearance. Were there not a bunch of people doing that to retrofit LS motors when they 1st came out and still doing it?

Who needs power brakes in a Falcon? No issues with stopping mine with manual disc.

If the OP or anyone else can source a engine for cheap enough, why not see how it fits. I think that will be the big hurdle. Finding one cheap enough. I checked ebay the other day $8 to $9K for a take out Coyote.

I may go pick up a used LS next week instead. Cant pass up $150 LS. Can't believe I even said that. LOL

[protasone]

^^^Jet. agreed 100%^^^ One of my main issues is finding the actual correct dimensions including headers. You know, something like an actual blue print of the engine showing motor mount bolt locations, overall dimensions with ALL accessories installed etc. I could even make my own measurements by looking at one that is complete and on a stand. That way I can do a mock up without actually plunking down the 13k for the motor and trans. Unfortunately I cant find anything on the net that I can trust. The drawings I do find are just that. Drawings. No actual dimensions. None of my friends have a Coyote just laying around. Maybe a Ford dealer has one on display? How do I do a mock up you ask? Its actually very easy. Block of Styrofoam rough cut into the actual dimensions of the motor and trans. Don't laugh. It works. Just don't spill any gas on it and your golden :) Saves TONS of time and labor for doing mock ups for **** like this. Much easier than hoisting the motor in and out 50 times with 3 or 4 guys helping you. For this build I'm in the unique position of NOT having the motor and trans in hand to "sculpt" after. Since I have not completely decided which route to go, foam is even more valuable to me. Just need to find the actual motor dimensions and I will get started.

[ramlinman]

How hard can it be......

Pick up this months Hot Rod, it has all the dimensions on the Coyote ( it is actually shorter than a 289).

be the pioneer. if we can get the new hemi in earl valiants and darts. ou can get the coote in a falcon

74307

[Doodler]

Thanks for the feedback Doodler! Nice! Looks like it fits pretty well!! I have a few questions if you don't mind. Is that mod the same dimensions as a Coyote? What are your plans for a trans? Did you need to make any adjustments under the dash, steering column etc? I assume you built a frame behind the new firewall for lateral rigidity correct? That looks really great and you are making me think I can actually do this now.

I'm not sure if they are the same. A 4.6 is almost as wide as the 460 that I was originally going to put in there. It's shorter but gets really wide, really fast. I ended up going with a Lentech 4r70w auto trans. I didn't touch the dash at all for the conversion. When I started, I just decided to go all the way knowing it's not going to be easy or cheap. But it's what I wanted, so why not try. So the frame is 1 piece all the way to the rear clip.

LIke Jason at TCI said, there are a lot of little things that I've found out with the 4.6. The Heidt's crossmember need's 1/4" notched out to clear the water neck on the block, new trans tunnel (but I was going to have to do that anyway), remote oil filter, master cylinder was relocated with no booster, and there is no way you are going to get off the shelf headers to work. Going into it, I knew almost all would have to be custom made so nothing really surprised me to this point. The car hasn't seen the road since 1996, so if it takes a little longer to get it to where I want it, so be it.

[Dave B]

The latest issue of Hot Rod Magazine has all the dimensions in it...makes me want to find a coyote for my Maverick....

[Jetfixr320]

The latest issue of Hot Rod Magazine has all the dimensions in it...makes me want to find a coyote for my Maverick....

What Grabber said. June issue of Hot Rod

And the March issue of Modified Mustangs has engine dimensions and also Engine bay dimensions of most of the Ford cars through out the 60's.

[65falkone]

Found this on another forum - can't say if it is correct or not:

5.0L DOHC
28" Length
26" Height
27-1/2" Wide

My opinion is that it would be relatively easy to get it to fit if you do something similar to what Doodler did to fit the mod motor - removed the inner fenders completely and open up the trans tunnel area. I have an FE 390 in my 65 Falcon and a C6 trans and it required some cutting, removing shock towers, new tunnel, moving brake MC over to clear VC etc but it does fit.... and they are also fairly big motors - long and wide.

74554

74555

This is the master after it was moved over 2" closer to the inner fender - it would not clear before even with the "low pro" stock valve covers.
74556

Fe details:
74552
74553

I would be far more hesitant with swapping one in this early with the complexity of the ECU and wiring to get it to work properly in your older car. Drive by wire pedal, sensors everywhere, EFI retrofit to your fuel system etc. But if you feel confident with that end of things I say go for it - would certainly be bad ass!

For what it is worth...most people I originally talked to said putting an FE in the Falcon was stupid, too nose heavy, look like a 4x4, headers will drag on the ground, handle like standing on the nose of a skateboard.....Now that it is in and done all those guys seem to have forgot those comments and think it was always the best option:geek:

[protasone]

Good info 65 and nice pic's! You guys are funny. You want me to go to the store and pick up a magazine? How quaint LOL! Spoiled on the "net"! Where can you even buy a Hot Rod magazine these days?

I'm not worried about cutting up the tunnel or moving things around so much. I already removed the towers and installed the TCI M2 IFS and sheet metal work is like second nature to me. The thing I'm most concerned with is buying the $8500 motor and it becoming more trouble than its worth (and taking more time and money than I want to spend NOT driving this car) to PROPERLY fit it like it should and then, if it doesn't work out, selling my "used" zero mileage Coyote for less than I paid for it. I know, I'm getting a s***y attitude now right? I guess it really bugs me that I'm considering the Coyote after I had originally started this build based on a small block Ford and AOD. I hate it when that happens:hammer:

I keep asking myself, Will the motor with the stock headers fit between the frame rails and control arm mounts with no contact? Will there even be ANY room for custom headers? Will the motor sit to high/low in the engine bay? How much cutting am I going to have to do to my K member or other components? All of that may not be a big deal but to what extent will I need to modify all of the above components to make it fit? Will all of this time, effort and money really be worth it considering its still a relatively new motor and ECU (which I hear has some issues of its own)?

You all brought up VERY good points that I will have to consider. Maybe I will wait until there are more aftermarket components available to me and just build a bad ass small block stroker for now. Impatience will probably get the best of me because the power-train choice is the only thing really holding me up right now. If your still reading this, thanks for listening to my rant.....It would be bad ass though wouldn't it? Damn! There I go again!

[Ron.in.SoCal]

74564

[Doodler]

Us northerners are "lucky" enough to have about 6-8 months of downtime every year to start big projects. And by downtime, I mean piles and piles of snow. We are supposed to get 6 more inches this week and it's April! UGH! I don't know exactly how close the the coyote is to the mod 4.6, but if you have any questions or need better pictures, just let me know.

[Bryce]

Sal and I certainly have differing opinions on these types of things. There is a running joke inside the office here about when I was in sales. They'd call them "Jason orders" because I was always thinking outside the box and placing orders they wanted nothing to do with. After all, I was the one that put the order in for "lowfast" who is running our Custom IFS 64-70 Mustang front end on his Falcon. Plus I enjoy a challenge just like many of our customers.

Having said that you'd be opening a gigantic can of worms by going with the Coyote. That engine is as big as a damn Hemi(side to side). Just be prepared to not only modify and or move the firewall, relocate the master cylinder and probably not have enough room for a booster. If you go with a manual tranny you'll be making a new tunnel to accomodate it. You'll probably be looking at custom headers also.

-Jason

I like those Jason orders!

[Bryce]

Hey thanks guys. Wow! Hey Bryce! I have been following your build for a while now. You've done a great job and provided tons of inspiration! If I remember right didn't you actually considered a mod motor? This whole thing doesn't seem to be as complicated as people are leading me to believe. I'm either OVER or UNDER thinking it. Sal at TCI seemed to kind of talk me out of it. If you have a moment I would love to hear what you think about this Bryce. Forgive me if your answer is in your 80 page build thread somewhere already :) I have viewed so many other threads now I cant remember s**t. Thanks!!

Thanks!

No mod motor for me. I had a 4.6 DOHC in my lincoln and enjoyed it but low cost and simple are not common terms used when describing the mod motors. I do not see the advantages of a mod motor in falcon. The new 5.0 is expensive and unneccessary in my opinion for a pro-touring car. A show car maybe, one up your friend... maybe. But an autocross car, nah. I think it woul dbe better to spend the time and money another way.

[andrewb70]

....I think it woul dbe better to spend the time and money another way.

Like sticking a LS engine in it...<<runs away>>

Andrew

[Thrillrr]

Check with ajeracing.com. I believe he has a kmember for the falcons and the coyote motor.

[Jetfixr320]

Good info 65 and nice pic's! You guys are funny. You want me to go to the store and pick up a magazine? How quaint LOL! Spoiled on the "net"! Where can you even buy a Hot Rod magazine these days?

I'm not worried about cutting up the tunnel or moving things around so much. I already removed the towers and installed the TCI M2 IFS and sheet metal work is like second nature to me. The thing I'm most concerned with is buying the $8500 motor and it becoming more trouble than its worth (and taking more time and money than I want to spend NOT driving this car) to PROPERLY fit it like it should and then, if it doesn't work out, selling my "used" zero mileage Coyote for less than I paid for it. I know, I'm getting a s***y attitude now right? I guess it really bugs me that I'm considering the Coyote after I had originally started this build based on a small block Ford and AOD. I hate it when that happens:hammer:

I keep asking myself, Will the motor with the stock headers fit between the frame rails and control arm mounts with no contact? Will there even be ANY room for custom headers? Will the motor sit to high/low in the engine bay? How much cutting am I going to have to do to my K member or other components? All of that may not be a big deal but to what extent will I need to modify all of the above components to make it fit? Will all of this time, effort and money really be worth it considering its still a relatively new motor and ECU (which I hear has some issues of its own)?

You all brought up VERY good points that I will have to consider. Maybe I will wait until there are more aftermarket components available to me and just build a bad ass small block stroker for now. Impatience will probably get the best of me because the power-train choice is the only thing really holding me up right now. If your still reading this, thanks for listening to my rant.....It would be bad ass though wouldn't it? Damn! There I go again!

Order it up! I will trade you my 331 stroker. 430hp. :-) I will start cutting.

[protasone]

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to post up! Your input is much appreciated! Well, after meeting up with Bryce last weekend Im going to pass on the Coyote. Larry Holt is building a nice little stroker for me as we speak. Ill put the Coyote in a future project :cheers:

[Matt@BOS]

I didn't realize you were local to San Diego. You could have dropped by to see the Coyote motor going in my '65 Mustang. I think one look would have talked you out of it. the narrowed frame rails could have been a major issue as you would have had to make a custom accessory drive to package everything. The few off the shelf offerings barely fit in between the Mustang frame rails as is. You will be happy with a built small block Ford, and you will probably have a lot less headaches and be on the road sooner.

Matt

[65falkone]

I know this is kind of a dead topic for you but....

I Was looking around on the h.a.m.b. site and found this neat stock car inspired 63 falcon with a 5.0 coyote motor. Lots of work but will be deadly when done.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=781356&highlight=63+falcon+build


75718

Man that looks HUGE in there
75717

75715

[protasone]

BAD ASS!! Lot of work though.....but still....BAD ASS!! :)

[GrabberGT]

That motor is just STUPID large. I need to find someone at Ford to slap over this. Just stupid! Dont they know their customer base is doing averything they can to stay loyal. We could use a little help here Ford! Anyway...

Love the look of that Falcon though.

Cant wait to see how your project progresses.

[protasone]

Here are a few pics from the last couple of months. Will upload more soon. Can t wait to drive this thing!!7577175772757737577475775757767577775778757 79757807578175782757837578475785

[protasone]

I know this is kind of a dead topic for you but....

I Was looking around on the h.a.m.b. site and found this neat stock car inspired 63 falcon with a 5.0 coyote motor. Lots of work but will be deadly when done.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=781356&highlight=63+falcon+build


75718

Man that looks HUGE in there
75717

75715

65Falkone, thanks for the pics! Damn! That motor IS HUGE!! Kind of glad I am going with the SBF now :) Looks a fun project though. I will eventually find something to stuff a Coyote in LOL!

[Jetfixr320]

I know this a old thread, but came across another 1963 Falcon with a Coyote, and with What? A TCI IFS. :)
http://www.paulsautomotiveengineering.com/projects/ford-racing-boss-coyote-swap-63-falcon-is-on-the-road

Not much other info on how they did it. But it looks great in there.

[xsboost90]

thats funny- Pauls is near me and i stop in every time i get a chance to check out cool projects. I saw that car a couple years ago when it was just done and that motor was wedged in there. Trans tunnel had been chopped up too but they all need that with a good trans.