Monte 12 bolt in a Camaro

[Quickboat]

I know this sounds nuts, but can a cut down 12 bolt Monte Carlo rearend be used with a 4-link setup in my 67 Camaro? I was planning on custom axle length anyway and the price is right. Are the link eyes in a useable location for say a RideTech setup?
TIA

[Quickboat]

No one?

[astroracer]

Is the housing already narrowed? If so, is it the correct width for your set-up? Cost is relative to the modifications required. If you have to narrow it and buy new axles it may be better to simply go with a 9 inch and build it accordingly. I would contact Ride Tech about bracket spacing. I am sure they have on-line instructions so you could measure what you have to determine usability.
Mark

[Quickboat]

The housing is out of a first gen Monte. The guy wants a 100 bucks for it. I has not been touched and I am in the market for a 12 bolt anyway and first gen Camaro 12 bolts are at a premium. I dont really want a 9 inch and will not need the leaf spring perches anyway.
I am looking hard and cant find much about the width of the first gen 12 bolts but I think they are narrower to start with. Anyone chime in?

[Quickboat]

I found out by looking at axle lengths and the first gen Monte is 1 1/16th longer then the first gen Camaros axle. Moser wants about $2500 w/o brakes for a custom 12 bolt.

[exwestracer]

I'd say it really depends on how much tire you plan on putting under it. Putting a stock type 4 link in a 1st gen isnt the easiest thing in the world. If the lower brackets are too close to the ends to clear your tire, you really arent gaining anything by trying to use it.

[Quickboat]

I'd say it really depends on how much tire you plan on putting under it. Putting a stock type 4 link in a 1st gen isnt the easiest thing in the world. If the lower brackets are too close to the ends to clear your tire, you really arent gaining anything by trying to use it.
I was looking at a RideTech or another brand of 4-link. I am mini tubbing and want a 325 tire.

[exwestracer]

Ah. If you're planning on cutting all the stock brackets off anyway, go for it...

[19,69camaro]

This is what I would do/should have, but I didn't know any better.
Cut off ends and have big ford housing ends welded on. http://www.moserengineering.com/circle-track-packages-and-parts/deep-bore-gm-car-bored-for-45mm-bearing.html

Get new axles

Weld on leaf spring perches (super cheap)

Install bolt on Ridetech 4-link.

Use f-body ls1 brakes

But hey if you still want to use c-clips I have some brand new axles I can sell you.

[Quickboat]

This is what I would do/should have, but I didn't know any better.
Cut off ends and have big ford housing ends welded on. http://www.moserengineering.com/circle-track-packages-and-parts/deep-bore-gm-car-bored-for-45mm-bearing.html

Get new axles

Weld on leaf spring perches (super cheap)



Install bolt on Ridetech 4-link.

Use f-body ls1 brakes

But hey if you still want to use c-clips I have some brand new axles I can sell you.

Ride tech said I should use the weld on axle brackets instead of welding on leaf spring perches and using the bolt ons. The stock Monte upper link brackets will work, so I can delete those weld ons from the kit. This might work!
I am planning on using a shorter axle then Camaro stock, so c-clip eliminators will be used when I shorten the housing.

[19,69camaro]

Just to let you know there is a difference in c-clip eliminators and tapered bearings. C-clip eliminators are not designed for lateral loads.

[Quickboat]

Just to let you know there is a difference in c-clip eliminators and tapered bearings. C-clip eliminators are not designed for lateral loads.

Got any links to what is needed for an upgrade that will take the lateral loads?

[19,69camaro]

The ends that use large ford type bearings like I posted above.

[Quickboat]

The ends that use large ford type bearings like I posted above.

Those will only take the Hobby Stock 500-600 dollar axles? Isn't that a biy of overkill?

[19,69camaro]

Depends on what your doing with the car

[Quickboat]

I was planning on occasional Autox/RR days, not but a couple a year. I want it strong but I do have a budget too. I have to get a posi unit and brakes too. What is the next best option?

[Skip Fix]

Strange makes a "street" C clip elim that uses taper bearings.

Heck I'd snatch it clean it up and sell it for $500-what cores go for here and buy a new Moser housing/axles with what you need. Pretty sure it's the same as an A body.They have stouter caps also.

[Quickboat]

Strange makes a "street" C clip elim that uses taper bearings.

Heck I'd snatch it clean it up and sell it for $500-what cores go for here and buy a new Moser housing/axles with what you need. Pretty sure it's the same as an A body.They have stouter caps also.

I thought of re-selling but went ahead and removed the brackets
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/P1020825_zps939857ff-1.jpg
I guess I will find a kit like one of the ones above for a 33 spline setup.

[davidk68]

Hey Jim,
There was an episode of Musclecar on TV this weekend where they shortened an Impala rearend and put on new Moser housing ends made to work with big Ford Brearings and Special Ford/Chevy axles and eliminated the C-clip You can probably watch it on Powerblock TV. They kept the same 30 splines as stock 12 bolt though.

I'm running a shortened Monte 12 bolt in my 68 Camaro. This C-clip conversion is now on my wish list

David

[Skip Fix]

Just be sure who ever welds on the pads has an idea what angle for pinion angle to use. I had picked up a 12 bolt years ago a guy had cut off the leaf spring perches to use a floater but never finished the project. Found a chassis guy that did a lot of circle track Camaros welded on the Mopar style pads. Fast forward to 2 years ago(10 years after the welding-guy is gone) when I go to put it in my Camaro project and find the pinion angle is WAY down. Found some steel angle shims in different degrees from the 4x4 guys to get it right. So find a housing to copy the angle of the brackets vs the pinion-or I can sell you a few steel shims for a good price:)

I've heard about the TV show deal-they did not even use a solid jig made for welding the ends on straight just used the axles!

[GeoffP]

Hey I was going to mention the Musclecar episode this weekend but someone beat me to it. The guy used a stainless band clamp aligned with a tape measure to create the straight line to cut against with a sawzall. The he bevelled the edge and tacked the end in place, checked it for smooth axle insertion and rotation and called it good. It left me thinking if I could weld that I could do that in my garage.

[Quickboat]

Just be sure who ever welds on the pads has an idea what angle for pinion angle to use. I had picked up a 12 bolt years ago a guy had cut off the leaf spring perches to use a floater but never finished the project. Found a chassis guy that did a lot of circle track Camaros welded on the Mopar style pads. Fast forward to 2 years ago(10 years after the welding-guy is gone) when I go to put it in my Camaro project and find the pinion angle is WAY down. Found some steel angle shims in different degrees from the 4x4 guys to get it right. So find a housing to copy the angle of the brackets vs the pinion-or I can sell you a few steel shims for a good price:)

I've heard about the TV show deal-they did not even use a solid jig made for welding the ends on straight just used the axles!

Skip, I will be welding on the brackets from a RideTech 4 link kit. Ridetech says they have full weld on instructions. I hope that is correct. I will be buying an angle finder, I'm sure that will help. I will be using the big ford bearing ends with the GM pass flange. I am going to make bushings for the caps and ends that I can pass a 1.5 inch precision rod through before welding the ends on. I will document the process.

[Skip Fix]

Jim sounds like you have it covered correctly. Just be sure they have soem specs for the brackets vs the pinion.

You would think Moser could have lent the TV show guys a jig to use, axles could slide in with toe in, toe out or camber all over the place.

[davidk68]

Pics would be great Jim when you get going on it. It does seem like a jig should be used - the guy that shortened mine years ago used one. Not trying to steal your thread Jim but I have a question on this set-up. On the show, Tommy (who seems to me to do pretty good work) had to open uo the center hole on the brake backing plate. Is this plate what holds the axle in? I'm running a Wilwood disc rear brake set-up so would the caliper mounting plate/bracket serve this role for me?? I assume this is the case but wouldn't there need to be a gasget or seal to keep the rear end fluid in.??

Thanks,
David

[Quickboat]

Pics would be great Jim when you get going on it. It does seem like a jig should be used - the guy that shortened mine years ago used one. Not trying to steal your thread Jim but I have a question on this set-up. On the show, Tommy (who seems to me to do pretty good work) had to open uo the center hole on the brake backing plate. Is this plate what holds the axle in? I'm running a Wilwood disc rear brake set-up so would the caliper mounting plate/bracket serve this role for me?? I assume this is the case but wouldn't there need to be a gasget or seal to keep the rear end fluid in.??

Thanks,
David

Hey David we dont own threads in my world, chime in all you want. I am new to this game but I read and observe a lot. So what I can tell you is not all yet first hand but will be soon. I assume anything that goes on behind the axle needs to fit ove the larger "torino" bearings/seals. The retaining plate is "u" shaped and fits over after the axle is in. The seal goes in outside of the bearing into the housing bore ends but inside of the retainer. Brake backing plates will have to slide over the axle and bearing/seal before inserting the axlethen bolt on sandwitched with the retainer is my guess.

[Skip Fix]

What Jim said- the axle AND bearing has to slide in the backing plate. Most the good bearings are bigger 3.150 for the taper bearings and most factory backing plates(or even disc caliper backing plate) are for a smaller bearing to fit in. Then the retainer plate holds in the bearing and axle.

[Rhino]

The seal goes in outside of the bearing into the housing bore ends but inside of the retainer. Brake backing plates will have to slide over the axle and bearing/seal before inserting the axlethen bolt on sandwitched with the retainer is my guess.

I picked up a moser 12 bolt with the Torino bearing ends for use in my '68. The bearings are pre greased, sealed units and the axle seals are on the inside of the tube, behind the bearing.

The way the GM brakes work you're absolutely right that they'll need to be butted up against the housing end to be aligned properly. I'm using 4th Gen F-body brakes on the rear. The backing plate is cast aluminum and has an inner bore smaller than that of the bearing. As such it's acting as as the retainer as well.

[Quickboat]

I promised pictures after I got going on this 12 bolt and here they are people..
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/P1020871_zpsa0582bb8-1.jpg
made a fixture to cut off the ends
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/P1020870_zps0ecc454a-1.jpg
Cleanup
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/P1020872_zpsea71389f-1.jpg
Made some bushings and some 1 1/2 ground rod
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/P1020874_zps5f859be1-1.jpg
bushings in the main caps
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/P1020877_zps9a0d7cdf-1.jpg
And the end one at a time
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/P1020880_zpsc8d08091-1.jpg
end is welded and the brackets are ready
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/P1020879_zpsde7c361a-1.jpg
final mock up

[GeoffP]

Somebody's got some skills! I'm very impressed!!!

[Quickboat]

Thanks Geoff, I'm not quite Mr Welder, I get my guys at work to do the real welding. But i will post more as I finish the rear.

[GeoffP]

This is one thing my car really needs - wish I had the funds or the skills (I'd be happy with either!). :)

[Quickboat]

This is one thing my car really needs - wish I had the funds or the skills (I'd be happy with either!). :)

I'm putting way too much $$$ in this bucket of bolts not to be running at least a built 12 bolt...IMO
The skills required are not that impressive, but many times is requires the equipment and as a engineer/fabricator by trade I have access to them.

[Quickboat]

Here is the finished weld on the ends and brackets.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/P1020891_zps45f8a5f9-1.jpg
I will be getting axles this week but have to finish the trunk floor and tubs before mocking up the upper brackets. I will photo document that process too.

[GeoffP]

It looks great!

[davidk68]

Looks great Jim. When you get your axles, if you could take some "assembly" photos, showing the axle/backing plate/retainer order, that would be great.

Thanks,
David