AFCO Adjuster and Spring help!!!

[jbcamaro68]

I'm new to the 1st gen camaro world so I have a question. I have a 68 with a 396 with aluminum heads and no air.
I've done a little reading but want to try to get a clear setup answer. Is the following a good setup.

5" x 9 1/2" spring at 650#'s.
with AFCO adjusters.

I want to make sure I have some adjustability. Once I get the ride height that's probably how it will stay. Not building a
racer, just a cruiser.

Thanks for any help
Joey.

[TheBandit]

Hi Joey. I am working on the same setup for my Nova, but using 600# springs. The adjusters need a helix cut into them to sit properly in the spring pocket and I highly advise welding a stud (all thread) to hold them up to the sub frame while you assemble the springs. You can use the existing inspection hole or drill a new hole somewhere more convenient for that stud to go through. The stud isn't a requirement but it will make it much easier to get everything clocked and positioned if you intend to assemble the springs into the frame by yourself.

Here is some info from my build. Since then I have added studs and installed them into the upper pocket.


Next I decided to start prepping parts for getting the car back on all four eventually. I think I mentioned a long while back in this thread that I plan to use AFCO adjustable spring spacers and springs on the front of my car.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/ly6swap351JPG-1.jpg

The AFCO spacers are flat ended, but both the control arm and subframe have tapered spring pockets to accept the pigtailed coil springs. To determine the taper, I took a 4-1/2" cuttoff wheel, which happens to be the same diameter as the AFCO spacers, marked it every 45 degrees, and measured the depth of the taper using some wood skewers. I found the taper to be approximately linear, going from 0 to 1/2" depth around the 360 degrees. You can see here I measured from the lower control arm; the subframe pocket appears to be the same and should be based on the symmetry of the spring.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/ly6swap352JPG-1.jpg

Next I laid out a template on a piece of paper. The circumference of a 4.5" circle is about 14-1/8", so I had to tape two pieces of paper together to get enough length.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/ly6swap353JPG-1.jpg

I cut my template out, wrapped it around the spacer, and marked it as shown below. If you do this be very careful to verify the taper goes in the right direction.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/ly6swap354JPG-1.jpg

I decided to lay this out so that when the adjuster was mid travel, I would have a 2" lowered height, trying to replicate Hotchkiss 2" drop height coil springs. The Hotchkiss springs are the same rate (600lb/in) and have a 12.5" free length. To get this, my taper removes from 1-1/8" to 1-5/8" from the AFCO spacers. I can adjust these a full inch in either direction, which translates to about 1-3/4 inches of ride height in either direction (lower control arm ratio of 9/16). So I should theoretically have any where from 1/4" drop to 3-3/4" drop depending on where I adjust them.

Before cutting, I verified the total free length of 12.5" with the adjusters mid-travel

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/ly6swap355JPG-1.jpg

Then I clamped the spacer onto a folding workbench and made the cut with a cutoff wheel.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/ly6swap356JPG-1.jpg

Wala! It fits the pocket with even contact all the way around:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/ly6swap357JPG-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/ly6swap358JPG-1.jpg

From what I've seen, people usually put these into the upper spring pocket, citing interference when placed on the lower control arm. I decided to try mocking it up in the LCA and it appears it would clear just fine in either position.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/ly6swap359JPG-1.jpg

That's all for now. Next step - get the engine to a machine shop and paint the exposed sections of the frame.

[TheBandit]

I should warn you my car is not on the road yet so I don't know if the ride height will work out. I did confirm the rate and overall length of the Hotchkiss springs before I modified the spacers.

[exwestracer]

Clint,
Another reason those are typically mounted on top is the lower arm travels in an arc, and the height of the adjuster magnifies that arc. You have the potential for the threads to rub against the inside of the spring as the suspension cycles. With the limited travel we see on modern PT type cars, it's not likely to be a huge issue.

Are you planning on welding the adjusters to the lower arm? Have you tried installing the springs with the adjusters in place.

[TheBandit]

Thanks Ray for the added info. I did cycle the LCA with the adjusters in place on the LCA pocket and the "nut" portion adjusted to the worst case position to replicate he spring (the OD is very similar). There was actually quite a bit of clearance as the LCA moved through its arc so I think you could run these on the LCAs if you wanted to. I just found it more awkward to install the adjuster and spring in that situation so I decided to mount them to the upper pocket with just the stud. Having the stud on the adjuster makes it easier to line up the rotation of the helix in the blind assembly of the subframe pocket. I have completely assembled one side with the springs and spacer (in the upper pocket) without issue.

[j-rho]

I'm pretty sure the stock front spring diameter on a first gen Camaro is 5.5".

Here's some photos of some similar Afco adjusters on my '67:
http://www.rhoadescamaro.com/build/?p=889

With the Afco adjuster you have about 2" of adjustment at the spring, which is about 4" of adjustment at the tire - should be a plenty wide range. The important thing to note is what Clint did - he modified the lower cup part, to put the middle of his adjustment range, about where he thought he'd be.

You can add some upward adjustability later with a spacer below the spring, and downward adjustability by cutting the spring.

[TheBandit]

I'm pretty sure the stock front spring diameter on a first gen Camaro is 5.5".

I believe you are incorrect. I bought AFCO 20600 which is a 5"x9.5" spring (NOT 5.5") and it fit my spring pockets perfectly. They also matched the size of my original springs pretty well (in terms of overall diameter). My subframe is '70 Nova which is the same as '67-'69 Camaro and '68-'74 Nova. Carl C also used 5" springs in his Camaro: http://www.geocities.com/casanoc/

I have been thinking of adding a set screw to the adjusting nut to keep it from moving during install and while driving down the road. I wonder if that would be worthwhile.

[TheBandit]

Here's another thread on this topic: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?84107-2-inch-versus-3-inch-drop-67-Camaro

[j-rho]

You're right Clint - first gen is 5", second gen is 5.5".

[TheBandit]

Jason I don't think I've ever really chatted with you, but I did want to say awesome work and engineering on your build.

[regal454]

Clint,

Will the body of your shocks clear the adjuster mounted on the lower control arm? BTW, I've been following your thread, I like the way you did the G-Mod. Hope you are getting close to driving her.

--Marc

[TheBandit]

Marc that's a good question. I haven't checked the shocks yet; the ID of the adjusters is very close to the ID of the springs (you lose only maybe 1/8"-3/16" on edge with the adjusters over the ID of the springs)

[exwestracer]

Clint,
I was referring to the threads on the adjuster sleeve hitting the inside of the spring itself as the LCA changed angle with suspension travel. Same thoughts would apply to the shock clearance issue mentioned above.

[jbcamaro68]

Thanks to everyone, all the comments have been good insight. I am for sure going with the AFCO adjusters, my main concern was spring rate. I know for sure the direction now, Thanks again for helping out a new guy. I'll post pics when complete.

Joey

[TheBandit]

Clint,
I was referring to the threads on the adjuster sleeve hitting the inside of the spring itself as the LCA changed angle with suspension travel. Same thoughts would apply to the shock clearance issue mentioned above.

Sorry I misunderstood before. I'm not sure if that would be an issue, but I ended up with the adjusters in the upper subframe pocket. I don't think it's as much a concern in that location.

[marolf101x]

For those looking for a great "OE" replacement shock you may want to consider our new "Q" Series:
http://www.ridetech.com/store/components/shocks-components/

-They are available as RQ (fixed valve) and HQ (rebound adjustable).
-We have units that fit the original OE application, as well as lowered vehicles
-they can be rebuilt
-they can be custom valved
-the lower mount OD is 1.80", while the body is 1.65" (which may be enough to clear these adjusters when mounted on the lower arm)
-can't forget to mention the 1,000,001 mile warranty

[Quickboat]

Hate to hijack, but I am interested in these AFCO spring adjusters also. I now have Eibach 1 inch drop springs but will be installing two inch drop spindles soon and worry it might be too low. So adjusters might be the answer. My question is the spring rate. You guys are talking 600-650 lb springs and my Eibachs are 500ish. Wont the ride be really harsh at 600 plus?

[j-rho]

It's all relative, and there is more to harshness than spring rate. Motion ratio, shock valving, tires, even the type of seat you run. I run springs over 1300lbs. and that front natural frequency is lower than other car's I've run in the past.

[SLO_Z28]

It's all relative, and there is more to harshness than spring rate. Motion ratio, shock valving, tires, even the type of seat you run. I run springs over 1300lbs. and that front natural frequency is lower than other car's I've run in the past.

Agreed, theres a LOT more to it than just the spring rates.

[Quickboat]

Makes sense, I guess I will have to experiment.
Thanks.