Suspension options for a 68 camaro???

[Bmf5150]

So what are my options to make the old car handle like the newer sports cars??i see option of like art Morris sub frame and four link!are there cheaper yet just as good handling options???

[Rod]

I would use a Hotchkis TVS kit, and add a set of Global west tubular control arms and go win some races!

[rocketrod]

Call Mark at SC&C a site sponsor, http://scandc.com/new/, explain to him your goals and budget and he will steer you in the right direction.

[BuzzKillian]

X2 on SC&C. You should get college credits after talking to Mark.

[Jeff70]

What's your budget?

[TheJDMan]

There are sooo many options and directions you can go with suspension. The best thing you can do is just spend as much time as you can reading this and other forums. Everyone is going to have an opinion on the best setup but you need to educate yourself to what is available and what costs are involved so you can make your own informed decision on what works best for you. I spent over a year researching suspension options before making a decision.

[rocketrod]

X2 on SC&C. You should get college credits after talking to Mark.LOL. It's like a four semester credit hour course crammed into a 1 hour conversation. You may also want to get his book, http://www.amazon.com/Make-Your-Muscle-Handle-Performance/dp/1934709077/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1297722973&sr=8-1

[Hotchkis]

Hotchkis has an awesome kit for the 67-69 F-Bodies. Click this link below:
http://www.hotchkis.net/stage-2-total-vehicle-system-19671969-camaro-firebird-coupe-small-block-2-drop.html
Call me for questions, 888-735-6425, My name is Drew and my ext is 226. I have this kit on my 69 and love it!

[Smoker03]

I think it depends on your budget. Figure that out and u can go from there.

[makoshark]

No one can accurately give you pointers as to what you should get/want until your budget has been brought into the equation.

[Bmf5150]

Ok ,budget of $10,000

[makoshark]

That's a very workable budget...

Do you have fabrication skills along with the right tools and facilities to execute those skills? Not trying to be a smarta$$, just trying to gauge what would be best for you

[Bmf5150]

Yes,but I prefer to fabricate to a minimum!rather a bolt in method,weather it be swapping out parts or even subframe!

[makoshark]

If that's the case, then I would keep the stock frame and go full Hotchkis suspension. That is really the only true bolt in setup. Add a nice steering box and have fun:)

[rocketrod]

What are your intended purpose and goal of the suspension upgrades? Are you turning this into a auto-cross car, or will it be driven mostly on the street? Do you plan on re-using any of your existing suspension, brakes, or wheels (rimes & tires)? If I remember correctly you just installed new brakes and wheels so if your going to use those it "may" limit your choices depending upon the route you go. There are plenty of good bolt on options. Hotchkis, SPC, Ridetech, etc.

I would still suggest you call Mark at SC&C to discuss what your trying to accomplish....his advice is free and the guy is a suspension guru.

Call Mark at SC&C a site sponsor, http://scandc.com/new/, explain to him your goals and budget and he will steer you in the right direction.

[Bmf5150]

Thanks guys for advice!the car will be mainly driven on the street around town!i will occasionally go to the drag strip with the car,so i want the rear to hook up alot better!other than that I just want closer handling to modern camaro or vette!i have kore 3 c5 brakes and I'm using foose legend 18 wheels!!after talking to frank I'm looking hard at the ride tech coil over setup with 4 link!if there is something better u guys prefer let me know!im open to opinions!!thanks for the help!

[makoshark]

That's the suspension I am running. I did my front a bit different. I utilized the Speedtech Performance ATS/Chicane upper coilover brackets. The Ridetech Airbar requires some fabrication.

[Bmf5150]

Are u happy with the ride tech??

[UMI Tech]

Do you know your wheel tire combo yet?

[Rod]

Ran my car at Delmar and had 5th fastest time overall there (it didnt count due to illegal tires), and then drove my car to Goodguys pleasanton, loaded with 8 folding chairs a BBQ, an EZ-up, and food, myself and my girlfriend, unloaded the car did no adjustments to shocks or cambers and ran all weekend and clicked off a 3rd place time of 30.500 (but I hit a cone) even in 8th place finish I was the fastest 1st gen camaro there, (pro or street machine) and then loaded it back up and drove home, I'm running the Hotchkis TVS kit, Hotchkis Handle bars, global west arms and QA1 single adjustable shocks, to me thats an all around suspension

[makoshark]

Are u happy with the ride tech??

I haven't driven on it yet. However, the quality of product and customer service is second to none. You will not be happier if you go with Ridetech

[makoshark]

Ran my car at Delmar and had 5th fastest time overall there (it didnt count due to illegal tires), and then drove my car to Goodguys pleasanton, loaded with 8 folding chairs a BBQ, an EZ-up, and food, myself and my girlfriend, unloaded the car did no adjustments to shocks or cambers and ran all weekend and clicked off a 3rd place time of 30.500 (but I hit a cone) even in 8th place finish I was the fastest 1st gen camaro there, (pro or street machine) and then loaded it back up and drove home, I'm running the Hotchkis TVS kit, Hotchkis Handle bars, global west arms and QA1 single adjustable shocks, to me thats an all around suspension

Great setup you have with impressive results. Imagine what you could do with a set of Ridetech shocks or coilovers, not to mention the better ride quality.

[Rod]

Great setup you have with impressive results. Imagine what you could do with a set of Ridetech shocks or coilovers, not to mention the better ride quality.

maybe yes maybe no... you never know...

60936

[Bmf5150]

So is ridetech going to have a better ride quality??

[BMR Sales]

I usually ask a few questions before I make any suggestions to determine the best possible bang for the buck.

I think many guys spend more than they need or will use. I pride myself in asking as many questions as possible before making a decision on what is best for the customers hard earned money.


First question is what do you have for goals for the car once it is done? Is it going to be a factory restoration, daily driver/weekend cruiser, weekend warrior/drag car, Pro-Touring/handling machine, etc.


the car will be mainly driven on the street around town!i will occasionally go to the drag strip with the car,so i want the rear to hook up alot better!other than that I just want closer handling to modern camaro or vette!i have kore 3 c5 brakes and I'm using foose legend 18 wheels!!


Second question is do you have a specific budget in mind?



Ok ,budget of $10,000



Lastly, do you plan to do the work yourself?


Yes,but I prefer to fabricate to a minimum!rather a bolt in method,weather it be swapping out parts or even subframe!



We offer a very affordable complete suspension that can be configured at slightly more than $5K once you pick your coil-overs


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/kitpricing-1.jpg


The rear suspension is a true "Bolt-on" kit that can be done with normal hand tools in a driveway.


Here is a install article that Super Chevy did a few years back:

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...all/index.html


Here is a VERY informative tech article written by our R&D manager explaining what it does:

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ems/index.html


We also offer a Torque Arm kit for guys who want a Ford 9" that includes a bare Strange housing for $600 more. Take a look at the link below detailing an install that a member here completed with our Ford 9 in. kit in his 1973 Firebird:

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?80483-BMR-Torque-Arm-Installed-on-my-73-Firebird/page2&highlight=TORQUE+ARM



Our new A-Arms are caster corrected and we now have a easy to install Coil-over conversion for your stock sub-frame:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/IMG_20120403_173829-1.jpg


We also have weld-in sub-frame connectors which are under $200:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/SFC006_large-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/IMG_8624-1.jpg

[Rod]

thats damn good looking!!! makes me want to get another camaro just to have this setup also!!





https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/kitpricing-1.jpg

[Bmf5150]

How does the BMR suspension with torque arm handle versus say a 4 link setup(ridetech)???

[Bmf5150]

Anyone know??

[makoshark]

They handle well, but are not well adapted to drag racing. The Ridetech 4-link can do well in both scenarios with minor adjustments made. The BMR setup adds considerable weight. If you aren't willing to fabricate, then go with Hotchkis leafs

[SR71]

tq arms are a great all around set-up. they will do it all by adjusting the trailing arms up or down in the rear end brackets.

speedtech makes a very nice tq arm set-up that works as well as anything out there in its price range. while not the eye candy that the bmr is, the speedtech is a proven performer and much cheaper as well. take the money you save and upgrade the real tuning aids.....the shocks.

my ridetech tripples have been the best money that I have spent on my car. I can dial in a nice cushy street ride, nose up drag launches or corner carving handling. all with the same high quality shocks. ridetech knocked it out of the park with these shocks.

as said already, mark at sc&c is the man to talk to. while you can save a few dollars by buying from someone else, his insight and tech support is priceless.

[LSX67]

tq arms are a great all around set-up. they will do it all by adjusting the trailing arms up or down in the rear end brackets.

speedtech makes a very nice tq arm set-up that works as well as anything out there in its price range. while not the eye candy that the bmr is, the speedtech is a proven performer and much cheaper as well. take the money you save and upgrade the real tuning aids.....the shocks.

my ridetech tripples have been the best money that I have spent on my car. I can dial in a nice cushy street ride, nose up drag launches or corner carving handling. all with the same high quality shocks. ridetech knocked it out of the park with these shocks.

as said already, mark at sc&c is the man to talk to. while you can save a few dollars by buying from someone else, his insight and tech support is priceless.



Well said.

[BMR Sales]

They handle well, but are not well adapted to drag racing.

Actually the Torque Arm itself is designed to provide traction. Our Torque Arm suspension system can be tuned to give you the maximum straight-line hook. We provide multiple control arm mounting holes for adjusting a vehicle’s anti-squat characteristics. Every vehicle has an imaginary point where the suspension links would converge if they were extended forward. This is known as the instant center and it is a virtual lift point for the suspension. Instant center dictates the vehicle’s attitude under starting line acceleration. If this point is too far forward, the car will squat, wasting energy without hitting the tires hard enough to transfer weight properly to plant the tires. If the instant center is too far rearward it has an opposite effect. Each car will have a different instant center location based on the vehicle’s center of gravity. With that adjustability, our suspension system allows the user to find the sweet spot of their specific vehicle.




The Ridetech 4-link can do well in both scenarios with minor adjustments made. The BMR setup adds considerable weight. If you aren't willing to fabricate, then go with Hotchkis leafs

Four-link suspensions are a very common upgrade over leaf-spring set-ups and we could have easily built one. However, we started our business offering improved suspension pieces for the 93-02 F-Body. After mastering the 4th gen's Torque Arm rear suspension we wanted to bring it's proven design to the early F-Body cars. Our BOLT-ON kit replaces the leaf springs with coilovers, lower control arms, a HD torque arm and we added a Watt’s link. In a leaf-spring suspension, the springs are responsible for both positioning the rearend beneath the car and suspending the car in the air. Our bolt-on kit isolates these two functions by using coilovers in addition to lower control arms which allows each component to do its job more effectively and without compromise.

There are various adjustments built into these separate components. For instance, the control arms are adjustable in length to fine-tune wheelbase and the angle of the control arms is adjustable to tune instantaneous center. The coilovers allow easy spring rate changes by selecting from a variety of off-the-shelf 21/2-inch-diameter coil springs readily available throughout the industry. Furthermore, spring rate is adjustable on the car with the coilover’s adjustable collars, and ride height is adjustable via the multiple mounting holes provided on our coilover mounts. The above examples are really just adjustability perks. The fact that each component is designed to do only its specific job means it does not have to be compromised in order to fill other requirements.

While our kit adds some weight as compared to a factory set of leaf springs the additional weight comes with incredible benefits. Suspension components must endure tremendous loads so only the finest materials are used to ensure that our torque arm kits are as durable as possible. All round tubing used in the construction of our torque arm kit is 0.120-inch wall thickness DOM. We use a combination of 3/16- and 1/8-inch laser-cut steel for all of our mounting plates and gussets. Additionally, our Watt’s link is mounted in double-shear fashion, and our torque arm is mounted to the rearend with a 1/2-inch-thick steel plate that practically doubles as a rearend reinforcement. All machined components are 4130 chromoly steel, Delrin, or 6061-T6 aluminum. Likewise, all mounting hardware is Grade 8 steel.



tq arms are a great all around set-up. they will do it all by adjusting the trailing arms up or down in the rear end brackets.

speedtech makes a very nice tq arm set-up that works as well as anything out there in its price range. while not the eye candy that the bmr is, the speedtech is a proven performer and much cheaper as well.

While this may be true, please take a good look at ours and what you get with it for the dollar:


Our kit is entirely made here in the USA by US Citizens with steel and materials from the USA. :usa:
Our Torque arm is a true BOLT-ON kit for GM 10 or 12 bolt applications (customers have the ability to buy a 12 bolt plate if they started with a 10 bolt)
Our Ford 9” kit that includes a back-braced Strange housing in your choice of widths.
Our kit is also entirely powder coated. Last but certainly not least is the presence of the Watts link(see below).



Most street-style four-links are canted-bar systems that minimize the need for a lateral locating device, like a Panhard rod or Watt’s link. This design is generally more for simplicity and cost savings than it is for functionality. Regardless, a canted four-link still does not laterally locate the rear as precisely as a Watt’s link. Alternately, some street four-links use a Panhard rod, which does a better job locating the rearend than a canted four-link. The downside is that Panhard rods still allow slight side-to-side movement of the rearend due to the arc of travel that the Panhard rod follows while the suspension extends and compresses. The Panhard rod must rotate on a fixed arc relative to the body as the suspension goes through its range of motion. This arc creates dynamic side-to-side movement that gets progressively worse as the suspension travels. Another shortcoming of a Panhard rod is roll center migration. During suspension travel, a Panhard rod allows the roll center to migrate left to right, which affects the roll axis of the car. This inconsistency is due to the fact that a Panhard rod pivots from only one side of the body. A Watt’s link fixes the roll center location dead center, allowing the body weight to roll on it. As such, Watt’s links always remain true to center as each link is equal in length, pivoting from one common center.

Our Watt’s link mounting plate has multiple vertical points to provide roll center height adjustment as well. This is very helpful in tuning roll axis of the car, which enables you to counter understeer or oversteer through the corners.


take the money you save and upgrade the real tuning aids.....the shocks.my ridetech tripples have been the best money that I have spent on my car. I can dial in a nice cushy street ride, nose up drag launches or corner carving handling. all with the same high quality shocks. ridetech knocked it out of the park with these shocks .

Agreed, the shocks you choose will compliment the suspension to make it do what you want, but a system with more usable features will get you more for a minimal investment. The guys at Ridetech have a great shock. We designed our kit to work with the major players in the shock category.

[makoshark]

I've driven and owned torque arm suspension cars before. They handle well, but they lacked the bite for drag racing. No suspension is going to do it all well. There is a compromise in either direction. Detroit Speed's rear suspension is known to be soft on take off as well.

[SR71]

most street-style four-links are canted-bar systems that minimize the need for a lateral locating device, like a Panhard rod or Watt’s link. This design is generally more for simplicity and cost savings than it is for functionality. Regardless, a canted four-link still does not laterally locate the rear as precisely as a Watt’s link. Alternately, some street four-links use a Panhard rod, which does a better job locating the rearend than a canted four-link. The downside is that Panhard rods still allow slight side-to-side movement of the rearend due to the arc of travel that the Panhard rod follows while the suspension extends and compresses. The Panhard rod must rotate on a fixed arc relative to the body as the suspension goes through its range of motion. This arc creates dynamic side-to-side movement that gets progressively worse as the suspension travels. Another shortcoming of a Panhard rod is roll center migration. During suspension travel, a Panhard rod allows the roll center to migrate left to right, which affects the roll axis of the car. This inconsistency is due to the fact that a Panhard rod pivots from only one side of the body. A Watt’s link fixes the roll center location dead center, allowing the body weight to roll on it. As such, Watt’s links always remain true to center as each link is equal in length, pivoting from one common center.

Our Watt’s link mounting plate has multiple vertical points to provide roll center height adjustment as well. This is very helpful in tuning roll axis of the car, which enables you to counter understeer or oversteer through the corners.



Agreed, the shocks you choose will compliment the suspension to make it do what you want, but a system with more usable features will get you more for a minimal investment. The guys at Ridetech have a great shock. We designed our kit to work with the major players in the shock category.

even with a lowly panhard bar, speedtech cars are still kicking ass.

I looked hard at your system. it absolutely floored me the first time I saw it. if it would have still been at the $1995 pricepoint that it started at, it would be under my car now. I could have justified the difference for that price. but it jumped to $2399 by the time I got my money together. so the difference between your set-up and the speedtech paid for my upgrade to those badass ridetech tripples. I'll take them over a watts link upgrade anyday.

again, I will say that nothing on the market looks like your system. it is a real shame to hide it under the car.

[SR71]

I've driven and owned torque arm suspension cars before. They handle well, but they lacked the bite for drag racing. No suspension is going to do it all well. There is a compromise in either direction. Detroit Speed's rear suspension is known to be soft on take off as well.

no man. tq arms have no bite. that's why those 4th gen f-bodies with bolt in tq arms and lca relocation brackets can put lots of air under the front tires at the drag strip. lowering the rear of the lca adds antisquat. a simple set of lca relocation brackets knocked 3 tenths off of my 60' times on my 98 ta.

...and wolfe racecraft doesn't make a mustang tq arm kit for no reason either. the fastest mustang ss drag cars were running it in any class it was allowed in. when they replace the best working stock suspension in the business with a tq arm it kind of says something, doesn't it???

[makoshark]

I believe I said, in my post, no one will do it all. Torque arms can be setup to either drag race or corner carve. They can't do both. A 4 link can't either, but it can be adjusted to handle one or the other. Torque arms aren't as adjustable

[SR71]

I can drop the lca's down about as quickly as you can change the rear tires with normal hand tools. so, I guess your not going to bolt any drag tires on at the track either??? afterall, no one set of tires will do it all either.

[makoshark]

Take a chill pill and relax. Its just a car forum

[SR71]

I am relaxed. I'm just making counterpoints to yours. :cheers:

[Quickboat]

I hate to jump in here and hijack this thread but it seems you guys are the ones to ask. Originally I started my build with handling in mind and I was in contact with Pozzie back in the day. He recommended the Gulstrand mod at the time, so when I had the sub out for welding, blasting and powder coat, I had it done. How does this mod effect a future upgrade?

[Rod]

I hate to jump in here and hijack this thread but it seems you guys are the ones to ask. Originally I started my build with handling in mind and I was in contact with Pozzie back in the day. He recommended the Gulstrand mod at the time, so when I had the sub out for welding, blasting and powder coat, I had it done. How does this mod effect a future upgrade?

theres a tough question and the answer is.... it depends on the mods done later..
it wil work with many upgrades, as long as youre not running the tall ATS spindle I think every suspension tube arm set up needs the Guldstrand, Using the Guldstrand will let you lower the upper control arm pivot points by .75 inch. This raises the front suspension roll center from below ground level, to a point well above the road. This will reduce the angle of the lower control arms and make them more parallel to the ground, giving you a more favorable camber curve. The new holes will also move the top of the spindle rearward .25 inch from stock. This will create more positive caster, which will make the steering feel more "snappy. no control arm I have seen can change the pivot point

[Quickboat]

Thanks Rod, I also, with the Gulstrand, added Eibach springs (1" drop), Koni classic shocks, 1" sway bar, all new moog suspension parts and a IROC steering box. I guess the next upgrade mods I can think of would be for biigger rubber and bigger brakes? Maybe some urethane parts? The occasional autocross/road course is all I am looking at. mostly cruisin the streets. Do I need to swap out what I have for all of the componenets I'm reading about? Will it make much difference? In the rear I have heavy duty leaf springs, traction bars, disc brakes and Konis. I know a four link /sway bar would be nice and I need a bigger rear end anyway since I'm only sporting a 8.2" Richmond posi unit now. What do ya think?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/RSresto029-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/P1010031-1.jpg

[Rod]

Thanks Rod, I also, with the Gulstrand, added Eibach springs (1" drop), Koni classic shocks, 1" sway bar, all new moog suspension parts and a IROC steering box. I guess the next upgrade mods I can think of would be for biigger rubber and bigger brakes? Maybe some urethane parts? The occasional autocross/road course is all I am looking at. mostly cruisin the streets. Do I need to swap out what I have for all of the componenets I'm reading about? Will it make much difference? In the rear I have heavy duty leaf springs, traction bars, disc brakes and Konis. I know a four link /sway bar would be nice and I need a bigger rear end anyway since I'm only sporting a 8.2" Richmond posi unit now. What do ya think?


Yep more tire! keep the leaf springs there fine, leafs are great for all around, great on the autocross, drag racing and daily driving, I only suggest getting rid of the traction bars(i know they look cool I really like the caltracs bars myself) but traction bars put a lot of stress on the front half of the the leaf and eyelet. I would put a sway bar instead, 8.2 with the posi is fine unless your engine is pumping out 600+ HP it will last a long time

[Quickboat]

Yep more tire! keep the leaf springs there fine, leafs are great for all around, great on the autocross, drag racing and daily driving, I only suggest getting rid of the traction bars(i know they look cool I really like the caltracs bars myself) but traction bars put a lot of stress on the front half of the the leaf and eyelet. I would put a sway bar instead, 8.2 with the posi is fine unless your engine is pumping out 600+ HP it will last a long time

OK, so I guess I did good listening to Pozzie on my budget mods. Likely there are more gains to be had in the front and rear if I wanted an all-out race car and had the ($$$). You like leafs, but aren't they what is limiting me on the rubber end of things in the rear? I know now my DOT slicks are 275/60's and are all I can fit in the rear. If I went with 18 inch rims and tires what is interference limit to bigger rubber in the rear with leafs? In the front which mods must be done for bigger rubber/brakes there with the same budget constraints?
Without the traction bars wheel hop was extreme. I'll look at the caltacs...

[makoshark]

You have 2 options for larger front tires; aftermarket subframe or Ridetech's Truturn. For the rear, 275 is about your limit without mini tubbing the rear.

[Quickboat]

You have 2 options for larger front tires; aftermarket subframe or Ridetech's Truturn. For the rear, 275 is about your limit without mini tubbing the rear.

Is it mainly the steering arms that allow for deeper wheels? Or do the spindles move the wheel outward also? I know my steering arms are close now. 1.75 inch taller spindle? That seems like a bunch. My Gulstrand mod will have to be reversed then? Will the stock hubs work on these spindles? I have Hooker competition headers, wont these be in the way also?

[Vicinity]

Is it mainly the steering arms that allow for deeper wheels? Or do the spindles move the wheel outward also? I know my steering arms are close now. 1.75 inch taller spindle? That seems like a bunch. My Gulstrand mod will have to be reversed then? Will the stock hubs work on these spindles? I have Hooker competition headers, wont these be in the way also?

For front wheels, the outer tire rod will always be your enemy in getting a larger wheel. Tru turn or an aftermarket sub is really the only way to do it. I've tried every other method, and they just don't work or require entirely too much effort.

The headers might be an issue with Tru turn, as it raised the inner and outer tie rods by an inch or two. Otherwise, headers make absolutely no difference. Anyone who designed headers for the car, designed them around stock steering.

[SR71]

Without the traction bars wheel hop was extreme. I'll look at the caltacs...

traction bars cause bind in the rear suspension.

for about the same money as caltracs, you may want to consider a set of landrum rear leaf springs. because if you go to stiffer front springs, you have a choice of several different rear rates to match things up. also landrum says that no traction bars are required with their springs as wheel hop control is designed in. the only drawback is that they are an ugly blue color and you will have to paint them black.

[Rod]

I have an 8inch front rim with 255/40/17 tires and on the rear a 9.5 rim with a 275/40/17 on the rear I was running a 285 tire before but it did rub on the inner well at the track, I didn't mean to say run a traction bar, I mention I like the look but I would recommend not to run a traction bar of any kind(sorry if I confused any one)

[Quickboat]

I am running Eibach front coils and they are rated for 500 in lbs linear. What tension leafs do I need if I change out the rears?

Has anyone modified the rear inner fender well enough to squeak a few more mm's worth of tire under there without relocating the shock or mini tubs? Where do the shock mounts go with mini tubs?

[SR71]

check out http://www.pozziracing.com/first_gen_suspension.htm#Handling%20discussion for info on spring rates.

when you minitub, the usual practice is to move the shocks inboard of the frame rails with a aftermarket shock crossmember(I made my own when my car was still leaf sprung). they are readily available and can go from mild to wild depending on your budget and fab skills.

[Vicinity]

I am running Eibach front coils and they are rated for 500 in lbs linear. What tension leafs do I need if I change out the rears?

Has anyone modified the rear inner fender well enough to squeak a few more mm's worth of tire under there without relocating the shock or mini tubs? Where do the shock mounts go with mini tubs?

You have to keep the rear shock mount in mind, as well.

[BMR Sales]

even with a lowly panhard bar, speedtech cars are still kicking ass.

I looked hard at your system. it absolutely floored me the first time I saw it. if it would have still been at the $1995 pricepoint that it started at, it would be under my car now. I could have justified the difference for that price. but it jumped to $2399 by the time I got my money together. so the difference between your set-up and the speedtech paid for my upgrade to those badass ridetech tripples. I'll take them over a watts link upgrade anyday.

again, I will say that nothing on the market looks like your system. it is a real shame to hide it under the car.


Panhard bars are not to be ashamed of by any means...... they are fine for most applications w/o question. I agree that the Ride Techs triples are just about as good as it gets, I just wish they were attached to our kit on your 69.:smoke: BTW; our Watts link does more than just center the rear; it can be adjusted to change rear roll center.




I believe I said, in my post, no one will do it all. Torque arms can be setup to either drag race or corner carve. They can't do both. A 4 link can't either, but it can be adjusted to handle one or the other. Torque arms aren't as adjustable


Not sure what car you have driven with a Torque Arm, but I'm fairly sure it was not one with ours..... here is a peek at the LCA adjustablity we offer on the Ford 9"


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/IMG_20111216_103248-1.jpg



I can drop the lca's down about as quickly as you can change the rear tires with normal hand tools. so, I guess your not going to bolt any drag tires on at the track either??? afterall, no one set of tires will do it all either.

BINGO........ I can say that no other kit has the ease of installation (BOLT-ON), drag and/or handling potential, ride height adjustablity our kit has and if you decide to sell the car tomorrow the system can be UN-BOLTED from the car and returned to stock in literally a matter of minutes!

[killer69]

The Speedtech Torque arm is EQUALY as easy to install and has all the SAME adjustments. there is a total of 8" of welding that is needed to complete the install.

Shown here with 345/30/20 and 3" Exhaust.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/Speed_Tech_59-1.jpg

[BMR Sales]

The Speedtech Torque arm is EQUALY as easy to install and has all the SAME adjustments. there is a total of 8" of welding that is needed to complete the install.







Blake,


With all due respect and I mean respect. Any part that necessitates welding to install is not as easy as a bolt-on kit. You mentioned that your kit offers the "SAME" adjustments, but I cant see the way in which your customers can adjust roll center like ours can. Does your kit have a provision to easily adjust pinion angle?


FWIW, The BMR & speed-tech kits share a common design concept, but are actually quite different in features, construction and execution.


We also offer a kit for guys who want to use their stock or new 10 or 12 bolt rearends.


BTW: We are an American Company and our kits are made here in the USA from a US steel by US citizens. :usa:

[killer69]

Blake,


With all due respect and I mean respect. Any part that necessitates welding to install is not as easy as a bolt-on kit. You mentioned that your kit offers the "SAME" adjustments, but I cant see the way in which your customers can adjust roll center like ours can. Does your kit have a provision to easily adjust pinion angle?




FWIW, The BMR & speed-tech kits share a common design concept, but are actually quite different in features, construction and execution.


We also offer a kit for guys who want to use their stock or new 10 or 12 bolt rearends.

Same Here.

you can see the exhaust fitment on the previous picture as well. lots of room.


BTW: We are an American Company and our kits are made here in the USA from a US steel by US citizens. :usa:

First off thanks for the "Respect"

Ok I have had some BOLT ON parts that don't even come close to fitting, ( I am positive 99% of everyone on ths board will agree with me on that FACT) they may use "bolts to hold them on" I am sure yours are not in that catagory. if you can handle a 110 welder then you can handle this install. Don't let 8" of welding dictate your buying descision.
Roll center adjustment. The chassis side of the panhard mount has a 3" slot in it that allows the bar height to be adjusted, as well the housing bracket has 2 mounting holes that ad further adjustment capability.
The pinion is easily adjusted using simple shims. To date on the installs we have done no adjustment has been needed. The pinion mount is a CNC machined billet aluminum part that has all the correct geometry built into it during manufacturing. If you ended up running some weird engine trans combination and did have to adjust the pinion angle then yes it is easy.

BTW our products are made both in the Good OL US of A as well as in Canada, our employees are highly skilled ticked trades people and are highly paid as well. just keep in mind that there are ALOT of excellent products made both inside and outside the USA. I won't list them.

This is not a pissing match just a product comparison, each product has features that are different.

if a customer has decided that a watts link is the "best" and knows how to adjust it correctly and exhaust over the rear end is not important to him then the BMR Torque arm fits their requirements.
if all MR. Customer wanted to do is install the part set the bar to level at ride height and go racing with full 3" exhaust out the back of the car then the Speedtech Torque Arm fits. We have spent a grand total of 2 minutes adjusting the panhard bar in my Nova so far.

Like one of the previous posters mentioned our torque arm had proven itself to be as good as any other design on the market

Thank You for allowing me to further clarify my previous comments

[BMR Sales]

just keep in mind that there are ALOT of excellent products made both inside and outside the USA. I won't list them.

You are correct, unfotunately a large amount of products come from companies outside the USA. We simply take pride in offering folks "Made in the USA" in this day in age and all of the money made stays here and supports American workers and suppliers.




This is not a pissing match just a product comparison, each product has features that are different.

Couldn't have said it better......


if a customer has decided that a watts link is the "best" and knows how to adjust it correctly and exhaust over the rear end is not important to him then the BMR Torque arm fits their requirements.



Actually, our kit will allow dual 3" tubes over the axle as well.....


What shocks are included with your kit for the advertised price?

[makoshark]

Is this thread to answer the question from the original poster or is it a product showcase from different companies?

[rocketrod]

Is this thread to answer the question from the original poster or is it a product showcase from different companies?
I was wondering the same thing....

[killer69]

I would say BOTH.

[killer69]

Actually, our kit will allow dual 3" tubes over the axle as well.....


What shocks are included with your kit for the advertised price?[/QUOTE]

I have Yet to see a installed picture of exhaust over the axle.

Our kit is supplied with QA1 single adjustables.

[Bmf5150]

So what gives you best ride quality and doesn't drive like a 40 year old car

[makoshark]

Here's the best way to answer these types of threads. Decide your budget, what your goals are and what level of skills you have. Then, take all the systems that fit that criteria and write each one down on an individual piece of paper. Get some scotch tape and tap each one to a wall in an orderly fashion with each in close proximity to one another. Get an old school dart, not a plastic to one and stand back about eight feet from the wall. Throw the dart at the wall making sure the dart hits one of the pieces of paper. Then take that piece of paper with the dart in it and sit down pulling your wallet out. Remove your credit card and call a dealer to purchase the system the dart landed on. From there, you wait for the brown Santa Claus to bring your new suspension. Once it arrives, get busy installing it and then have fun:)

[Bmf5150]

Lol, I hear ya!!!

[Carl @ Chassisworks]

So what gives you best ride quality and doesn't drive like a 40 year old car

This (http://www.cachassisworks.com/cac_press_67-69Camaro.html).

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