Thinking of doing a 71 cuda...

[bret loibl]

Iam thinking of doing a 71 cuda with all the pro touring mods (late model hemi, air ride etc) the problem is i have done mostly gm stuff and know all the sources for these but hardly anything about the mopar stuff...Who are some of the better companys for aftermarket suspention and driveline componants or anything pro touring related for mopars??? I feel stupid for as many cars i have done over the years i have never really messed with mopar stuff.....Any help in the right direction would be great Thanks Bret

[thedodgeboys]

some friends builds
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=75207.0

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=28465.0

and my 70 challenger build sorry a lot of the early pictures are gone.
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=41617.msg417925#msg417925

[Moparposterchild]

Riley Motorsports for the front k member. It'll give you rack and pinion steering and the ability to run adjustable coil overs or air ride along with better geometry for alignment and handling. They also make a four link rear which will also accomodate air ride or coil overs. You can also use any Mopar motor you wish, old school or new gen Hemi.

There's also a company called Magnum Force that offers a similar concept with a different approach to its build. Theirs is tubular.

There's also XV Motorsports if you reall wanna spend some dough but I've heard mixed reviews.

[71duster]

do it. just do it. try UScartool for some body mod type parts. Firm Feel has some neat stuff,i use them alot,but they are more stock suspension upgrade parts,but check them out. i also heard that DSE may start a little mopar addition,may be worth waiting for. Riley makes some good stuff,but i would kinda steer clear of Magnum Force,personally i have never heard anything good about them.
for great info check out http://www.forebodiesonly.com/

[go-fish]

If I could do it over again I would save a bunch of cash and go the Hotchkis TVS route. Look up the E-Maxx Challenger of theirs and look at it's awesome performance form their OEM based suspension. Their car is a Challenger T/A but imagine and AAR Cuda E-Maxx version!

I have Reilly Motorsports' Alter-k-tion front suspension and love it. Like said before it will allow you to run Air or coilovers, gives you MII style spindles so that you can have any brakes that fit MII, a flaming River front steer rack.
style.
If I were going all out on the rear I would build a 3 link. Impossible to keep the rear seat though. I went with Ride Tech's Air Bar tri-angulate 4 link. It's an easy solution for a rear suspension due to it's bolt-in status.

Definately shore up that uni-body. Screw all those kits and laser cut sub-frame connectors that fit the contour of the floor pan. THey never fit right and these cars are all over the place in regards to being consistent so a laser cut contoured SFC for one isn't going to fit another. On top of all that they are 3 sided and rely on the floor pan as being the top once you weld it to the floor. You need thicker gauge metal than what the floor pans are. Go with some 2"x4" stock and make your own.

You can get away with a 315 in the back without mini-tubbing but your measuring skills will have to be an exact science and you'll need to nail the custom wheel offset. Anything more and you'll need to minitub but it sounds like you can handle it.

There is a group we used to run with called WAM (Wichita Area Mopars). Check them out. They were very big in the Mopar show scene in the 90's and are probably still around. They had a show or came to an OKC or Tulsa show every weekend back in the day. There might be some people running the RMS front suspension you can peek at.


Word of caution, Magnum Force suspensions have a reliability issue with welds and is widely believed to have design flaws. Sales are low due to this.
XV Motorsports has an excellent product but have been know to take a year or more to get your stuff to you. They hardly ever pick up the phone and many of their customers including myself have given up on them because of the headache.

[sccacuda]

Don't know where your at, but if if near Florida, my shop can help with the engine and wiring. I've done a few swaps for people using the late '09-'11 CAN BUS engines/trans. Can even make the traction/stability and ABS work for you.

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?86743-just-another-twin-turbo-Cuda-build

[High Plains Mopars]

Open up your wallet. You will be shocked by the increase cost of parts compared to your prior GM experience, and the 71 Cuda is the pinnacle of it.

Mopar support here is kinda of thin. To familiarize yourself with things mopar, check out moparts.com, protouringmopar.com, and maybe cuda-challenger.com. Cherry pick info where you find it as most mopar guys are into restoration and drag racing.

[frankenstang]

Jeff Schwartz now offers a FULL chassis for that car. Very minimal floor mods to get it under car. About the ONLY aftermarket part that's the same thru the different brands.
He's doing a 70 or 71 Cuda right now. Full chassis and a Mopar crate Hemi.

www.schwartzperformance.com

[Bigblue73]

Here is one for you. Check out the build of Mr. Byrds '71 Cuda at Rad Rides......Notice the rear suspension that Rad Rides has installed. Yes that is a DSE Quad-ra-Link in a Mopar. There are options out there for building just not as many. I hope the canvas that you have is a solid car that has all the trim. As mentioned in prior, you are messing with the holy grail of Mopar and for some reason I guess the stuff is made of unobtainium. I'll tip my hat to the Hotchkis components. It works for me and my budget.

[rrunner68]

This topic has been beaten to death, but it is worth re-iterating. All of the "Bolt in" front suspension systems that use a coil over are putting loads on a chassis that was never designed to carry the forces generated by a modern performance tire. Without serious modifications to the entire car, I would never recommend RMS, Magnum Force or XV to anyone if they plan on driving their car more than on and off a trailer.

[bret loibl]

Hey thanks everyone for the input...This has givin me plenty of ideas on the direction that i may go...Kinda been looking at the schwartz chassis...we'll see again thanks Bret

[Ripped]

That would be an awesome build. I was also thinking of a AAR Cuda or T/A Challenger. Hemi 'Cuda would be very cool. Good luck!

[sniper]

Open up your wallet. You will be shocked by the increase cost of parts compared to your prior GM experience, and the 71 Cuda is the pinnacle of it.

This man speaks the truth. A friend of mine just built a 70' Cuda. He bascially did an OE stle restoration. Everything but the gauges, wheels some engine dress up parts and a serpentine system was OE style. He did all the labor himself for all but the interior (oe style stuff) and paint. Without those two things he spent $50k+ in parts. THAT'S ZERO LABOR. He purchased the "perfect" body for 20K, and it was *****. He had to do full quarters, floor pan, closeout panel, and door skins.

[elitecustombody]

I would just reinforce the floors with subframe connectors and mainly core support,inner fenders,cowl schwartz chassis would be nice,but it adds quite a bit of weight

[Modo Innovations]

It is good to see more folks turning these classic Mopars into Pro-touring machines. These are not suspension related, but we have pedal covers for some of the most popular Mopars. Our pedal covers have been used in many Pro-Touring cars.
Mopar Pedal Covers (http://www.modoinnovations.com/mopar_pedals.html)

[MS68EFI]

I built a 1968 Charger and did not go with the bolt on front route. Just did not like the overall feel and steering issues it brought on. We went with a combination of Hotchkis, Ride Tech, and Firm Feel parts initially. Now that I have a relationship with Hotchkis, 100% now. Could not be happier........I have access to a $250k build Roadrunner, it has all the bolt on coil over stuff and our car out runs it with no problem.

We went fast with it at the OUSCI and we no handling issues what so ever. You will be hard pressed to beat any of the top GM cars out there right now because we are limited a bit, but when a 1968 Charger hits in the road course........

[Bill Howell]

I think I can say that no one has protoured a B or E body (mine is B body) and beat on it anymore than I have, or driven any more road miles on their car than I have (about 25000 now). I put XV stuff on my car and have been pretty much happy with it other than the poorly designed first run UCAs. I think that has been fixed now. They are hard to nail down on delivery, so be sure to handle that part before payment but their stuff works if you want the best. That said, since I bought, Hotchkis has introduced their suspension and if I had it to do over, giving everything I know now and price being part of the decision, I would probably go with Hotchkis. Be careful with some of the other manufacturers out there. I personally don't want parts on my street car that are labeled up front as off-road use only...just saying....

One last thing, XV makes a killer stiffing kit that truly works, check it out even if you go with another suspension setup.

[Schwartz Performance]

I would just reinforce the floors with subframe connectors and mainly core support,inner fenders,cowl schwartz chassis would be nice,but it adds quite a bit of weight

The Schwartz G-Machine Chassis actually SAVES about 75-250lbs (depending on the model). Weight loss is a result of our efficient frame design, race-bred components and ditching a bunch of the heavy original metal and pieces (like switching the heavy steering-box with a much lighter power-steering rack).

So, even though it might seem like you would be adding weight, you're absolutely not—it's quite the contrary.

[mikedc]

The stock B/E Mopar unibody is very stiff. And the sheetmetal & subframes are not very heavy aside from the stock suspension parts. The platform gets near modern-car rigid by the time you add a few well known reinforcements. I would think retrofitting newer suspension parts onto the existing unibody would be a better plan than starting over on the whole thing.

[sccacuda]

The Shwartz chassis is a very nice piece. It depends on if your a "purist". I chose to to reinforce my 'Cuda and leave it as a unibody, but my car was a very solid rust free Cali car. If I started with the typical rusted E-body, I would have gone the Shwartz route for sure.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/IMG_0251-1.jpg

[Schwartz Performance]

The stock B/E Mopar unibody is very stiff. And the sheetmetal & subframes are not very heavy aside from the stock suspension parts. The platform gets near modern-car rigid by the time you add a few well known reinforcements. I would think retrofitting newer suspension parts onto the existing unibody would be a better plan than starting over on the whole thing.

We think designing something from scratch for a specific purpose is better than trying to "fix" old engineering. Our G-Machine Chassis has entirely different geometry, changing the camber curve, roll-center, etc., that is race-bred and proven. It is nearly infinitely adjustable and tunable.


The Schwartz chassis is a very nice piece. It depends on if your a "purist". I chose to to reinforce my 'Cuda and leave it as a unibody, but my car was a very solid rust free Cali car. If I started with the typical rusted E-body, I would have gone the Schwartz route for sure.

Thanks. We completely understand the purist approach; we love doing OE restorations.
However, our G-Machine Chassis shouldn't be considered a "fix" for a rusty car, as it works in conjunction with the unibody structure. With our G-Machine Chassis, your engine, rear-end, steering and suspension are isolated from the body. The G-Machine Chassis becomes the main support for your car and the uni-body structure simply becomes added support, helping to tie together the G-Machine Chassis. This isolation also makes the cars very comfortable to drive without losing a connected driving feel/experience.

Although we feel our approach is the most efficient and successful for ultimate performance, we're not suggesting that the pure-unibody approach is wrong. We built a very fast Vega that didn't have our chassis (but we're pretty confident it would have been even faster with our chassis).

[bret loibl]

Well iam not a purist for sure... I like'm low and wide...I built a 56 for a guy last summer and was waiting for some comments from the tri-five guys.....It wasen't that bad ....Bret

[jvike]

I have a 70 Cuda, AAR style. :D I've got the XV Motorsport suspension. The Front is Corvette C5/C6 based with a 05 Mustang Rack. It drives and handles real nice. Rear is a 3-link with a panhard bar (and a rear seat). Massive splined swaybars front and rear. Brakes are also from XV, manufactured by StopTech, they are 14"/6 piston front and 13"/2 piston rear. Designed (scaled pistons) for hydraboost, and application spesific for E-bodys. Dampers, by multimatic, have different valving for whatever engine you're using. Also I'm running 335's on 18x12 in the rear with no tubing! Had to absoulutly NAIL the backspace, but pulled it of. Chassis stiffening kit is also installed, very rigid body. I truly think it is the best engineered suspension available for ANY musclecar! I am very happy with both XV and their product. Prices are the same range as DSE and TCP. XV also does GenIII Hemi engines. Other good suspensions are RMS and Hotchkis, but I have no experience with any of them, but have never heard anything negative about them. The Magnumforce is a more dragrace oriented suspension. I would not use it on the street, but again, no first hand experience with it.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/10845349858-1.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=349858)

[sccacuda]

Hey JVike, seriously nice car!! Any more pics than what's in the link?

[jvike]

Hey JVike, seriously nice car!! Any more pics than what's in the link?
Thanks, I have a few on my homecomputer that I can upload, but not many. But I'll try to snap a few new ones, and hopefully some action pics too!

Cheers, Joakim

[High Plains Mopars]

We think designing something from scratch for a specific purpose is better than trying to "fix" old engineering. Our G-Machine Chassis has entirely different geometry, changing the camber curve, roll-center, etc., that is race-bred and proven. It is nearly infinitely adjustable and tunable.


Well, since you guys do this for a living, I can't really discount the fact that you have probably forgotten more about chassis dynamics than the average enthusiasts thinks they know, but the above statement really sounds like a generic sales pitch.

So if the chassis you have are all designed for a specific purpose, which purpose is that? Does the buyer need to specifically define that when buying you set up? Can you build to meet specific rule sets if required? I can see some major problems if any rules require stock pick up points or prohibit specific parts make swapping.

Also, looking at the stock mopar set up, they can adjust roll center heights from -6 to +6, so that is a pretty broad range. They also already have a fairly decent negative camber gain curve built in to them, unlike the positive camber gain that is experienced by some other makes/models out there. I'll grant you that beyond that oint, adjustability is lacking in the stock mopar set up to be able to gain decent caster change in a postive direction, and with torsion bars and strut rods, one also has to be congnizant of creating bump steer issues with too much component swaping.

In all seriousness though, it doesn't take a huge amount of effort or money to get some mopar suspension systems capable of road holding that is beyond a most driver's abilities.

[AusMarty]

^.

Because they can.
That's why.

Personally - I'd rather a VERY stiff, solid FULL body frame under any classic muscle car if I was to give it any track abuse.
Not the "strength" that flimsy flexible welds and 30+ year old metal gives you.
Sure you can seam weld it etc.
But Imagine having the handling of a tight import, with the corner precision of a Ferrari under the body of a classic muscle car.
Sounds good to me.


Each to their own though.
Having custom frames isn't just for the handling side of things.
Adds torsional strength to a shell and makes it more responsive on the road in my opinion.

That being said, I have only driven one full custom sub frame car and it's non custom equivalent.
And that was a 72 Challenger on an Art Morrison (I think) frame, Vs. a stock 1971 Challenger with rims and a brake upgrade.

I gotta say, I wouldn't take any modern car over that '72 challenger I had the pleasure of driving.
wow.
Felt so good to drive.

Whole reason I got into Pro Touring in the first place.