making my own brake lines

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

Thinking about making my own brake lines. have a cpl of questions before I get intoo deep.

1. I want to use stainless. Is annealed the way to go and od/id/wall thickness sholuld I use ???

2. I'll need a good flare tool. Any thoughts on this tool ???


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/KTI-70081/

[neki67]

Go for Cunifer lines. It will be (far) less of a challenge, cost less, look good and last as long as the stainless.

On top of all that, you won't need a fancy flare tool.

[parsonsj]

I prefer to use AN (37 degree single) flares with SS. Use 3/16 x .035 fully annealed SS line, and a good bender and flare tool. I used Ridgid benders, and an Imperial manual flare tool.

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

I prefer to use AN (37 degree single) flares with SS. Use 3/16 x .035 fully annealed SS line, and a good bender and flare tool. I used Ridgid benders, and an Imperial manual flare tool.


Any preference to sleeves and nuts ???

[parsonsj]

Any preference to sleeves and nuts?No. I've used Russell, Earl's, and Summit. Mix and match with no issue. Some say you have to use steel fittings, but I don't. I think aluminum works well -- the softer material seals better with stainless better.

[claytonisbob]

AN single flares for brake lines? When the flex lines, master cylinder, and (I'm assuming) most prop valves having 45 degree seats, why do AN? Seems like it would make things more complicated, and are AN flares rated for 1000 lbs of pressure? I know it's easier to flare stainless at 37 degrees, but I figured that was mainly for fuel line.

[dontlifttoshift]

I do it all the time. I honestly don't know what the flare seat is rated to but I have never had a problem with 37* AN flares on brake lines. I also use aluminum fittings although you shouldn't.....supposedly. Adapting to AN stuff isn't that hard. Most adjustable prop valves are 1/8" npt and most braided lines are AN already so that only leaves the master cylinder to fight with.

These guys have every adapter you could ever need inluding cool banjo setups for the master cylinder http://www.purechoicemotorsports.com/

I get all of my AN stuff from http://www.phenixindustries.com/index.html

Here is the flare tool I use http://www.brakequip.com/tools_ft.html I have had every kind of flare tool you can imagine and this is the best hands down. The imperial mentioned above (with the rollers) works well and was my go to until I got the Brakequip one.

Donny

[parsonsj]

What Donny said.

Are AN flares rated to 1000 psi? You bet: http://www.sealexcelfittings.com/37_flare.html

Oh, and a big second on Pure Choice: http://www.purechoicemotorsports.com/

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

Go for Cunifer lines. It will be (far) less of a challenge, cost less, look good and last as long as the stainless.

On top of all that, you won't need a fancy flare tool.

I found one place to get this stuff. Fedhill brake lines. Any other places to get this stuff??

Found this site too. Pretty cheap fora 25' coil.
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-warehouse/SRR-BREZ100-p-SRR02.html

And can you do a 37* AN flare with this stuff ?? I ask about AN flares because I was originally going to plumb the entire car with Aeroquip teflon braded lines and have a ton of AN fittings. But am thinking about not doing the whole car in braided and would like to use the fittings I already have. I know stainless uses 37* flares. Just wasn't sure if you could use it with the Cunifer tubing.

[CFster]

Go for Cunifer lines. It will be (far) less of a challenge, cost less, look good and last as long as the stainless.

On top of all that, you won't need a fancy flare tool.

+1. Cunifer all the way on my car.

[MrQuick]

What Donny said.

Are AN flares rated to 1000 psi? You bet: http://www.sealexcelfittings.com/37_flare.html

Oh, and a big second on Pure Choice: http://www.purechoicemotorsports.com/

John,
Vince here, Where do you buy your stainless?

Thanks....I like the Pure Choice stuff too.

[dontlifttoshift]

I get it from McMaster Carr. They are not the cheapest or the most expensive but if I call in the morning I get it that afternoon. Pure Choice carries tubing as well.


But am thinking about not doing the whole car in braided and would like to use the fittings I already have.

DO NOT run the entire brake system in braided stainless hose. It is strong stuff but still flexes and you will end up with a mushy pedal. I try to keep total flexible hose in a car under 3 feet whenever I can. 3 feet even sounds like a lot but when you drop a hose at each wheel it adds up quick. The less hose, the better.

I don't see any reason you couldn't single flare, 37*, the cunifer tubing. It's seamless so it should work.

[parsonsj]

I get my stainless and aluminum tube from Dillsburg Aeroworks, but apparently Charley Vogelsong is calling it quits. I don't understand it.. the man is only 93. :)

When I lived in Maryland, I would drive up there and bring home lengths (20-22'), but lately I've been getting them cut into 8' sections for shipping by UPS. I guess I'll move on to McMaster -- but they only offer 6' lengths.

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

Thanks for all the feedback so far. Excellent info.

Now one last question. I have the large single pistion calipers in the back as well as the front. They are actually late 70's Caddy calipers with parking brakes built in. Should I run 1/4 tubing to the back or will the 3/16 be sufficient?

[parsonsj]

I would run 3/16 everywhere. 1/4" will lower your pressure in the back, though it's debatable if you'll be able to measure the difference.

[neki67]

And can you do a 37* AN flare with this stuff ??

I don't have any experience with doing 37* AN flares on Cunifer but I assume it's no problem. It's far easier to shape and far more plyable than stainless. I know Tobin (Kore3, aka Apogee on here) also likes cunifer. Might be worth it if you gave him a call/PM.

[Twentyover]

I would run 3/16 everywhere. 1/4" will lower your pressure in the back, though it's debatable if you'll be able to measure the difference.

No. No pressure change.

No reason to go bigger than -3. You're using fluid to move pressure, not to move fluid (although there is minor fluid movement.)

[BBPanel]

I found one place to get this stuff. Fedhill brake lines. Any other places to get this stuff??
Found this site too. Pretty cheap fora 25' coil.
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-warehouse/SRR-BREZ100-p-SRR02.html

NAPA carries the NiCopp (cunnifer) but you have to special order it - here is what their cust support sent me and I ordered the 3/16" roll - came in the next day:

3/16 x 25 coil – SKU # 641-3347
1/4 x 25 coil - SKU # 641-3349
5/16 x 25 coil – SKU # 641-3351
3/8 x 25 coil – SKU # 641- 3353

[MuscleRodz]

AN is plenty rated for pressure, you could even run it in aluminum if it was not under the car. Aircraft hydraulic systems are in excess of 2000 psi in certain systems. the issue is with vibration and cracking the flare. But I do not see that as a problem with stainless.

[Greg from Aus]

I do it all the time. I honestly don't know what the flare seat is rated to but I have never had a problem with 37* AN flares on brake lines. I also use aluminum fittings although you shouldn't.....supposedly. Adapting to AN stuff isn't that hard. Most adjustable prop valves are 1/8" npt and most braided lines are AN already so that only leaves the master cylinder to fight with.

These guys have every adapter you could ever need inluding cool banjo setups for the master cylinder http://www.purechoicemotorsports.com/

I get all of my AN stuff from http://www.phenixindustries.com/index.html

Here is the flare tool I use http://www.brakequip.com/tools_ft.html I have had every kind of flare tool you can imagine and this is the best hands down. The imperial mentioned above (with the rollers) works well and was my go to until I got the Brakequip one.

Donny

Have you compared this with the Mastercool Hydraulic? I am looking for a flaring tool as well. also would you have a rough idea on cost.

Greg

[dontlifttoshift]

Yep, I have the mastercool hydraulic. It works pretty well for double flare but I never like the marks it left on the tubing. the holding dies are serrated on the master cool, they are smooth on the brake quip. the dies on the brakequip are machined in a way that they grip the tubing very tight without marring or crimping the tube you are working on. the brakequip kit we bought does 45* double flare on mild steel and 37* single flare (AN) on any seamless tubing. It is the fastest and most accurate flare tool I have used to date and I very rarely have any leaks at a flare seat.

It has been a few years but I think it was right around $400. I had about $700 tied up in our mastercool and imperial flare tools.

I found this demonstration video that shows a double flare. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB7q2_p_vDE

BQ350 is the professional model and BQ 351 is the standard.

[parsonsj]

One thing I noticed on that tool is how much straight tube is required to hold it in place in the holding die. One advantage of the Imperial hand tool is that it only needs about 1/3 of that length, though it does leave a mark in the tube, especially in aluminum.

Another thought: if you just doing the plumbing on your own car, don't worry about the speed of the tool. If it takes 5 minutes per flare instead of 30s, who really cares?

[rohrt]

My advice is don't do it.

I was given that advice and I didn't listen and still tired to bend my own SS lines. Most of the connections leaked no matter what I did. I ended up replacing it all with mild steel pre-bent lines. They still look good after several years now and only took a 1/2 day to install. For what I spent trying to get a good flaring tool that would flare the SS I would have been money and time ahead If I would have just bought the mild steel pre bent kit to begin with.

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

If my setup was a stock setup I could use pre bent lines. But it's not a stock setup. I'm leaning towards using the cunifer tubing. Sounds like a nice alternative to SS tubing and still looks good. Or at least different.

[Bryce]

I made all my brake lines from SS hard line with double flares and steel flare nuts.

[dontlifttoshift]

One thing I noticed on that tool is how much straight tube is required to hold it in place in the holding die. One advantage of the Imperial hand tool is that it only needs about 1/3 of that length, though it does leave a mark in the tube, especially in aluminum.

Another thought: if you just doing the plumbing on your own car, don't worry about the speed of the tool. If it takes 5 minutes per flare instead of 30s, who really cares?

Yes it does take quite a bit of straight tubing compared to the imperial but no more than the mastercool hydraulic.

I get caught up in the time thing and I hate spending time doing repetitive work, but yeah, it's really not a big deal for the DIYer.

The biggest point is that for a little more money than the Imperial 37* flare tool you can have a tool that will do both kinds of flares very well.

[sjaroslo]

Resurrecting from earlier in the year.... Looking at the McMaster-Carr 3/16" stainless for some brake lines and they list both Type 304 and Type 316 stainless; any suggestions? Also, it is listed in varying wall thicknesses. I've read John Parsons' posts that seem to indicate that .035" works well and I've read others that seem to indicate that thinner is easier to work with. So, .028 or .035? Not that I'm certain that .007 is going to make a huge difference for a novice such as myself. Thank you.

[dontlifttoshift]

304 is what I use and I also use .035" mostly for dent resistance more than anything.....tubing works better when it's round.