Oil Pan Clearance Help

[censo69]

Just dropped the motor in my first gen. I have the original small block mounts with 3/8 plates and the energy suspension mounts and running a Holley pan. Question I have is how much clearance should there be to the cross-member ? Also is anyone running the additional torque plate that comes with energy suspension mounts?

Thanks

[Rod]

umm? I'm guessing you dropped a Gen III motor in first gen camaro with the holley pan, done correctly there's about a 1/2 to 3/4 inch clearance, there are 2 different height motor mounts also, along with 3 different size frame mounts

[censo69]

Yes, Gen III engine in first gen camaro. The frame mounts are the original 307 mounts and the Energy suspension mounts are 3.1120G. It went together after loosening the frame mounts but the clearance is 1/4 or less and touches in one spot towards the back of the cradle on the driver side.

Any thoughts ?

[Rod]

I'm headed to the shop this after noon and I will measure the frame and engine mounts while I'm there in my install for you

[censo69]

Thanks Rod Much Appreciated

[Rod]

here's a few pictures of the mounts and the motor installed

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_26361-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_2662-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_2663-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_2664-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_2665-1.jpg

[censo69]

Any chance you know the following dimensions ?
1. Distance between the frame and the center of the bolt on the frame bracket?
2. Distance between adapter plate and center of the prothane mount ?
3. Distance from bottom of block to the bottom of your pan ?

My set up looks very similar but of course with an interference fit to the cross member .
Thanks

[Z06vet]

I just put this setup in a 68 firebird & 69 camaro. I used the dirty dingo Double D adapter plates. Had same problem. I found that the frame stands on both cars had the same frame stands, but in both cases the drivers side stand was 1/4" lower than pass side. I guess we had the wrong stands. (i used some spare frame stands from a 69 camaro on the firebird). I used some thick grade 8 washers under the frame stands in both cases. I dimpled slightly that one spot toward the back side of crossmember on the drivers side, just in case. Based on the motor mounts we used, I have the short/wide setup on both cars. Maybe the tall/narrow would work without mods. My frame stands measured 2.25" from mounting surface to the bolt hole on the pass side & 2" on driver's side. I thought I had a mismatch set until we measured my buddy's 69 and it was the same. Scott

[Rod]

you got it vince, I will measure those up tonight for you (monday) or in the afternoon on Tuesday


Any chance you know the following dimensions ?
1. Distance between the frame and the center of the bolt on the frame bracket?
2. Distance between adapter plate and center of the prothane mount ?
3. Distance from bottom of block to the bottom of your pan ?

My set up looks very similar but of course with an interference fit to the cross member .
Thanks

[censo69]

Hey Rodney hate to be a PIA but did you have a chance to get those measurements I'm chomping at the bit to get this thing in.

[censo69]

Thanks Scott, my stands measure the same as yours. I guess I feel better shimming knowing someone else had this issue. I was thinking of shimming mine with body shims as the have a larger surface area to disperse the load.

[Rod]

Got some pics next to a tape, hope this helps a little

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_2676-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_2679-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_2680-1.jpg

[censo69]

ok so here are some pics. This weekend I bought some new frame mounts from NPD and confirmed they are exactly the same as what I have. also bought the 302 mounts and confirmed they are not what i need.

Rod my measurements are the same as yours when measuring from the 3/8 adapter plate to the center of the bolt, however even with the 3/8" worth of shim on the bottom of the frame mount and 3/16" on the top I only get a total of 3-7/8" between the frame and the adapter plate. With the shims in place I have a bit less the 1/4" of clearance in the worst spot between the pan and frame.

If I go the shim route i will make a shim up and weld it to the bottom of the frame mount but I wanted to post this out there to see if anyone else had some ideas on the best way to fix this issue56014560155601356012

[Z06vet]

I would have welded my washers(spacers), but i can't weld. Not wanting to be held up, I just got some new, longer grade 8 bolts & bolted everything together. I'm sure some guys will look down on me for this, but I think it will be ok. Once the car is finished & running, I'll report back if any problems are encountered. Post up some pics when you are finished with yours. I have been meaning to call holley & see what stands are needed for this pan. I wasnt expecting to have this problem. Scott

[censo69]

Yeah I plan to call Holley tomorrow.... should of went with the mast pan.

Rod - Do you know which stands you have ? Am I reading your pic correct ? it looks like you have about 4.5 inches between the adapter plate and the frame. looks like we are the same ~1.5" from the plate to the main bolt.

Thanks

[daytonayellaz]

Hey Vince....are your adapter plates the same as Rodneys? and if so are your motor mounts/plates installed the same as Rodneys? If so, you should be able gain aprox. 1/4" " by swapping the adapter plates from side to side....which will force you to rotate them 180* Then the motor mounts will also automatically rotate 180* (1 hole up and 2 holes down ) Should raise the motor up about 1/4"

Also... it doesnt look like you have the extra steel shim that comes with the motor mounts installed? This would raise your motor some as well.

[Rod]

I looked at the pictures and the difference I see is the urethane motor mount (mine is 1 1/8" tall) yours is 3/4" tall only, you should end up with
4-1/2" tall setup, yours is just 3-3/4 inches tall

[censo69]

Travis, I know I don't have the same mounts as Rodney He has Prothane's and I have Energy. Not sure what plates he has but the look like 3/8 thick and I assume they are neutral position as far as height goes, and no I didn't use the shim in the Energy suspension kit. I was thinking I could get away without using it since it's purpose is a "pre-load plate" which is essentially what the adapter plate is doing. Plus the shim has a small hump which would need to be ground down (which I'm fine with). Thanks for the idea of switching the plate around I will give that a shot tomorrow after work.

Rodney, I see what you you talking about an I didn't' notice that at first. I'm not sure if that is the ultimate issue since the distance between adapter plate and mount bolts appear to be 1.5"-1.75". It looks like the metal portion of my mount is longer then yours , making up for the shorter urethane portion. Do you happen to know which frame mounts you have (Brand and or Part #)

Thanks for everyone help.