Question for the PT crowd?

[Off Duty]

I've been hanging around here for a while, and have seen some absolutely amazing builds.

While I absolutely love the 1st and 2nd gen Camaros and 'Birds, I also have a love for the boats, the Impalas, Chryslers, and big Fords, not routinely associated with "road hugging" performance.

I've had the desire to get back into the "fray" lately and have been wanting to do something a bit different.

Recently, I found a 1965 Ford Thunderbird Coupe very close to me.
It's ready for paint, but doesn't run, and was the lady's husbands "project" before he passed away.

The price is right, and the body seems to be solid from what I see in the pics.
I'm going to look at it on Thursday.

I did some searching here and found one very short thread on a 65 Bird build, and I don't think it was followed up.

I've looked all over the net, but apparently no one has bothered to PT one of these cars.

So here's the question!

What does the PT.com crowd think of the potential for such a ride?
To start with, it's a heavy SOB at over 4k lbs!
So, I'm thinking some weight reduction in the form of some CF is going to be in order.

Of course, a modern power plant and running gear goes without saying.
Any suggestions there?

For the chassis, I'm thinking a tubbed rear and bags, if not a full on custom build?

Intended uses:
Sure, I want it to corner well.
I want it to be quick.
And I want to be able to get in, put the wife and grand kid in, and go to a show or event, or across the freaking country, in style and comfort:smoke:

Something "different"
Something "unique"

Give me your ideas, suggestions and your feedback please.

TIA

[cheapta]

I think it sounds awesome-a real "outside the box" car. At that weight you may not ever get it to keep up with some of the more agile PT cars through the cones or down the quarter mile but you can definitely improve the all around performance. If you're serious about corner carver maybe a Scwartz chassis?
Good luck and keep the pictures coming

Peter

[Off Duty]

It's definitely a boat, and not an auto crosser by any means, but that's what I'm thinking too.
In the spirit of "pro-touring" as I've read it here, it's a car that will do several things pretty well, no one thing best, and is able to be driven daily or cross country with the comfort and reliability of a newer car.

For a track car, I'd prefer a 2nd gen camaro or bird, or a C3 vette.
I'd planned initially to the vette, but my granddaughter likes to tag along to shows and such, and there's just not enough seating, and I don't want to trailer it everywhere. Where's the fun in that?

The 2nd gen was and still is, one of my favorites, but I keep looking at this old Bird and thinking....damn!!!
That could be :smoke:

I had a 62 Impala as a kid, and a few heavier cars growing up, so I pretty well know the limitations.

Just wanted to do something different.

Can you fill me in on the Scwartz chassis please?

Anyone else have some suggestions?

Here's the base platform (not "the" vehicle) I'd be starting with.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Give me some ideas:cheers:

[baz67]

Katz had a 63 or so Riv and it was a blast to drive. I say you are on the right track.

[NJSPEEDER]

That would be a sweet PT car.

You will have some challenges with the weight but remember that a lot of the modern stuff is way lighter than the classic parts. So many more things are made out of aluminum that you will save 100+lbs in engine and trans alone. You can also manage the weight with a lot of tire, there are drag guys that throw 275/60-15 DR's and stockers with 30x9 slicks without any modding to the wells.

Always loved the look of that generation of T-bird. I say go for it and good luck.

-Tim

[Off Duty]

Thanks Tim, and the rest of you for the support.

The cars look best with the fender skirts on, so I'm not too sure about stuffing much in there without a tub. then again, that'll be fine too:)

I'll be looking at the car this week.
The $$$'s right, so if the body/frame are even close to decent, it's mine:) and I'll post pics ASAP.

Keep the suggestions coming please.
I have a few ideas of my own spinning around in my head, that I think would make this an awesome ride.

Also, I pm'd one of the people here that do renderings, but haven't heard anything back.
I know there's some serious talent here, so if any of you rendering types are available, please shoot me pm.

I'd love to see how some of these ideas might look on paper.

Thanks.

[tylers88]

I think it would have a lot of potential to be a fun quick car, the 5th gen F bodies are over 4000lbs so you could be looking at a decent range being able to hang with a new Camaro, Mustang or Challenger since they're stacked pretty even for performance.

[Off Duty]

I think it would have a lot of potential to be a fun quick car, the 5th gen F bodies are over 4000lbs so you could be looking at a decent range being able to hang with a new Camaro, Mustang or Challenger since they're stacked pretty even for performance.

Thanks, I never thought about the weight comparisons.
The aerodynamIcs should be close as well since both have large frontal areas.

My preference would be the lsx platform for an engine, but keeping it all ford would be cool as well.
Lot to think about.

[The Stickman]

Just do it. With a well thought out plan and parts there is no reason you can't make it work. My wagon is just over 4k and handles great. It needs more power but the chassis is well sorted and balanced. Could use more tire though both in size and grip.

[mc84_zz4]

I'd love to see a recent (2000 or so) cobra supercharged engine in there.
With a pulley swap, exhaust, and a chip you are hitting 500 HP
That should rock the boat pretty well. Love the project idea too BTW
:twothumbs:

[Off Duty]

How about a TT'd version of that cobra engine?:smoke:

[BulldawgMusclecars]

A TT'd Cobra motor, with a 6 speed trans and a Schwartz chassis would be an awesome combination. I for one would like to see a "different" car like this taken to that level, instead of yet another Camaro or Mustang.

[Off Duty]

A TT'd Cobra motor, with a 6 speed trans and a Schwartz chassis would be an awesome combination. I for one would like to see a "different" car like this taken to that level, instead of yet another Camaro or Mustang.

...Then this it shall be!:cheers:

And the search begins...
I'll get some pic up of the one I'm going to look at on Thursday.:fingersx:

[Bill Howell]

I read your post and thought I would chime in. I am certainly one that thinks outside the box so first, I am glad to see others do it.
I would suggest this, if you really want a car you can track and compete with, this is not the right choice. I have spent way too much money on my 72 Charger, but finally realized that I just can not overcome the weight and more importantly, length of my car. If you want a touring car, that will get looks, be different and be a blast to drive, you are dead on the money here. My first build, 65 GTO convert, was just that, never meant to be on a track, but certainly was the best road trip hotrod I have ever had. Ridetech setup, with bags and swaybars would probably be all you need suspension wise and will ride like a dream. Late model drive train, mini tub and you are done.

[Off Duty]

Bill,

Thanks for chiming in.:cheers:
I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions, and the professionals like yourself and Bulldawg above, just confirm to me that I'm on the right track.

I'm not going to fool myself into believing that this is a "track car" by any stretch of the imagination.
A 1/4 miler, with a LOT of work, maybe, but never anything that would be competitive in a short, twisty course:lmao:

You've pretty much nailed the purpose of this build.

I want to be able to load the wife, grandbaby, and some luggage, get in, turn the key, and drive to California if I so desire!
All without having to worry so much about dependability and reliability, and be able to do so in comfort and "style."

Yeah, I like to turn heads:yeah:
A friend of mine once said, "you've always had an 'interesting' car":)

I've had some boats in my day too, from a 63 Impala SS, and a 71 Superbee through 2- 77 Grand Prix's.
I like the comfort and styling and the ROOM.

I've also spent my time hauling a 2000 Z28 and an 87 Corvette through the cones on more than one occasion, and trained multitudes of officers to do similar crap with fully equipped patrol vehicles, from dodges to Crown Vic's.
Even had an undercover Jag thrown in the mix...(:secret: what a pig at low speeds and in tight turns!)

As for the weight and size of this thing, a lot of that can be addresses with "special materials."
Then again, how much coin do you put into a rig, and what do you want to lose in the compromise?

My true loves are the 2nd Gen Camaro's and Firebirds.
The one's I've seen here and on Nasty Z28 make me :drool:
One day, I'll build one, and it'll be a weekend, track/show/fun car.
If it goes cross country, it'll do so on the back of a trailer :rotfl:

But for now, I'll be happy just being a little "different", cruising the coutryside, and occasionally blowing the doors off some poor unsuspecting fool with "grandpa's" hot rod....:smoke:

As a final note, I have some of the folks here to thank, or to blame, for my sudden change of direction:squint:

After seeing several of the "heavy metal" rides done up in PT style on the board, the bug bit.

I actually started looking for another 63 Impala.
Later I looked at the 60's Impy's and Biscayne's, and even started looking at the real heavy iron, the 50's model Fords, Chrysler's, Chevy's and Pontiac's.
My parents had a 56 Pontiac Chieftain as I was growing up, and my dad had a sweet Bonneville 4 door.
The thought of revisiting my childhood was definitely there.

Then one day, while randomly perusing porn, uh, I mean cars, I ran across a 65 T-bird.
It was nothing special, but it hit me like a brick....That's it!! :seizure:

No one does them (thus the different theme), they're cheap (as compared to a 2nd gen Camaro/Firebird) and they're BIG & HEAVY...everything you'd want in a Pro-Touring machine, right?:screwy::lmao:

So there you have it.

Thanks for all the support and suggestions.
Please, keep it coming.

As soon as I make a decision, I'll post the pics and start a thread.......this is gonna be fun...I think?..:smoke:

[Scott Parkhurst]

An aftermarket chassis is what it'll take to work. Keeping it all Ford is cool- and late-model Mod motors certainly have potential.

I like turbos with automatics- not so much with stickshifts. You can't load up or maintain boost as easily, and the boost might come up on you when you least expect it- like on corner exit when modulating power is pretty critical.

A supercharger (Roots or centrifugal) would be more predictable and linear with a stick trans.

I'd love to see a car like this built, but keep your expectations honest. You see the F-bodies with loads of CF, excellent aftermarket chassis, and ample power winning P-T events. Your car probably won't dominate them. You can't honestly expect to win against them (especially since the best drivers seem to favor them as well...). If you're okay with that, then build the car and enjoy it for all it's worth!

Take it from a guy with a station wagon- I love to go to P-T events, but I have no dreams of beating anyone. I recently finished 20th out of 32 cars at the Heidts event in Joliet. A friend asked if I felt bad finishing 20th out of 32 cars, and I told him I feel worse for the 12 cars that got beat by a station wagon than I do for myself.

I push my car as hard as I'm capable, and my driving talent is just as limited as my car's performance is. I have no aspirations of greatness, but I have more fun than should be allowed. The great thing is that the events teach you to be prepared and how to tune your car. I just won the Car Craft RSE because none of the big players with F-bodies showed up, and my car was ready to do it's best in every event. I won 2 of the 3 events and the RSE title because my crew chief and I knew how to tune the car for each challenge. We got the max out of it, and knew we'd done our best. In this case, that was enough (just barely) to win. All the other events were worth this education.

[Off Duty]

Scott,
Again thanks for sharing your input.

As you may have read in my posts (I know-they're freaking llooooooonnggg-:lmao:)
I have no misunderstandings regarding the capabilities or potential of this build.

It's a "for fun" build.
Something to be a little different.
Something hopefully interesting, that will make people go :smoke: Cool!
Not something you'd see every day, and hopefully comfortable, with the ability to carry over two (2) people and luggage, and still be a kick in the pants to drive:)

Dominate isn't even in my vocabulary (well, there was this "lady" once..:evil:).

It think it'll be a neat platform to test some theories as well regarding big cars, weight & balance and overall performance.

To me, it's the difference between a "go fast" and a trawler.
They'll both get you where you're going, but in their own distinct way.
One obviously faster than the other, but both providing their own level of excitement and intrigue along the way.

And when they tie off at the dock, both will garner their own crowd of interested followers :cheers:

[Off Duty]

Any other thoughts on the build before I wrap this one up?

[SRD art]

This is a fantastic build. I think there's really 2 types of pro-touring cars- ones that are great on a track and leave some comfort out of the equation. Then there are those that have the look and some decent, whoa, go, and better than stock cornering capabilities, but also have the comfort for cruising. Having both worlds equals fat wallets. I remember in high school when I was building my Nova to go fast a friend bought a stock 67 Caprice from an old guy. I was so jealous of him, that thing looked great, was a blast to cruise in, and floated down the road.

This particular 'Bird has some of the most unique features of any car of it's day. It's almost like it's in a category by it self, different than anything else. With the right stance, color, and some wide billet wheels it would be an insanely cool cruiser. I can also picture it in my mind with the full PT track killer look, low, sleek and mean. The car already reminds me of Jaws or something, like it's coming up behind to rip your rear bumper off. I'm with you though, even if you go for the ultra mean track look it should be built to cruise.

Either way, I say go for it. This coming from a guy who's first fast car was a street driven '73 4 door Nova sleeper that ran 11's and now I'm building a station wagon to hang with Corvettes in the curves. Unique is a good thing!

[NOT A TA]

I wouldn't do it Gordon. For several reasons. I like the "unusual" builds, and I do like 61-66 T-birds, BUT......

1. Although we don't expect to ever get our money back out of these types of cars, the unusual vehicles take an even bigger hit than the more popular models, and take much longer to sell if you decide you want out. The more heavily modified the car is, the harder it is to find that one person who wants it. I don't think there's a line of buyers waiting to buy fully PTed versions of a 65 T-bird. How much time & money do you think the gentleman that passed away had in the car already vs. what it is for sale for?

2. The finishing of a car with the mods discussed above will take time, LOTS of time. Unless you have a shop build it, or have a tremendous amount of free time, 1-2-3 or more years would be a rather speedy build of the scope mentioned in posts above. The grandaughter will be years older before you can even drive the car. She will reach an age where hanging with friends will probably take priority over car shows with gramps in how long? Meanwhile instead of taking her to car shows or whatever with your free time you'll be wrenching.

3. Since you did mention you're a grandpa, we can assume you're not 20-25-30 years old with many decades of time for future builds. Whats the realistic likelyhood of building another car that you really like AFTER a build of the T-bird with the scope discussed previously? Would it make sense to get in a car with a higher initial cost that you could enjoy immediately? With the costs of a frame, suspension, driveline, wheels/tires, and paint job added to the initial cost of the car you will probably be in it for 20 thousand or more . You could buy a nice driver of a model that you like more than the T-bird, and slowly make mods that will improve handling, speed, and braking WHILE you enjoy driving it to shows, events, etc.

4. CHROME! Lots of it, and it's expensive to have redone. Have you really looked at how much chrome is on/in a 65? I would not be surprised at a bill for several thousand dollars to get all the chrome redone. The bumpers are massive and the interior of 65's are overloaded with chrome. With the humidity where you live constant care of the replated chrome will be mandatory if you expect to keep it nice.

MY OPINIONS: If you're dead set on building a 61-66 T-bird you might want to look at the slightly earlier ones. I prefer the exterior lines and interior styling of the 61-63's with the curved dash that wraps into the door panels creating a "pod" on each side of the console for the driver and front seat passenger. You really have to sit in one to appreciate it, very comforting. The 61-3 front end seems more gracefull and appears more aerodynamic from the side because of the way the front fenders come to a point on the sides of the headlights. I also like rear fender wingettes and the jet engine inspired tail lights. I'd only do a vert in any of the 61-66 cars. In my opinion, that generation of T-birds look like they were designed as verts and then they stuck a hardtop on them.

[SRD art]

Here's some motorvation...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/overhaulin-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/65thunderbirdgraphite-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/20809600048_large-1.jpg

[SRD art]

Not meaning to disagree in a negative way...

I agree on some of those points, but I'm hearing the Skipper saying he wants something that stands out in a crowd, does ok in performance, and something he can feel good about cruising everywhere. It sounds like the price is right and hopefully since it was a project it was done somewhat right.

I agree, the earlier cars are better looking but if you google these years there are very few photos of rodded 65s but plenty of the earlier cars. Looks like the 65s are more unique.

Lot's of chrome. But, if it's old and ugly, just paint it! I've got a picture in my mind of the car done that'd prolly make some folks soil their shorts in surprise! :naughty:

[M.P.G.]

I am nobody in the protouring world. I dont even have an OLD car. I have a very nice and pretty quick 95 cobra. and always had somewhat newer cars that I built "protouring".
So my advise means nothing, BUT I think it's cool as hell to see something different. I never look at the resale of a car I just do it up 4 me.
I personally am not a huge fan of those cars, But if it holds a spot for you than go 4 it. and if it turns out like that last pic of the orange t-bird
than that will be an easy sale. just my .02

[zombiekiller]

I'm a bit biased, as I'm building a big ford, BUT, I'll say this...

I'm tired of late 60s camaros and mustangs being all that you see built up.

I've been reaching out to some different smaller MFGs for help with aftermarket support. It'll come as more and more of the mid 60s bigger fords come into favor. there are not many mid 60s cars that are buildable for your average joe any more. Things like galaxies or Tbirds are great looking cars and are still attainable.

Then again, i'm stuck building fords. My FIL was one of the Sr. Engineers responsible for the US and Austrailian versions of the falcon. He worked for ford for 53 years.

My Galaxie will get some home brew engineering, but for the most part, the suspension will handle well. I have no illusions of winning a track day, but in my definition of PT, touring is at the forefront, not cone killing.

Be a bit different, stick out like a sore thumb.
"
With chrome in mind, pick and choose what you rechrome and what you shave. I'm keeping my hood " mohawk" as it was a weird option in 66 and not many cars got it. I'll be shaving the rocker and wheel well moldings though.

YMMV

[The Stickman]

Take it from a guy with a station wagon- I love to go to P-T events, but I have no dreams of beating anyone. I recently finished 20th out of 32 cars at the Heidts event in Joliet. A friend asked if I felt bad finishing 20th out of 32 cars, and I told him I feel worse for the 12 cars that got beat by a station wagon than I do for myself.

I push my car as hard as I'm capable, and my driving talent is just as limited as my car's performance is. I have no aspirations of greatness, but I have more fun than should be allowed. The great thing is that the events teach you to be prepared and how to tune your car. I just won the Car Craft RSE because none of the big players with F-bodies showed up, and my car was ready to do it's best in every event. I won 2 of the 3 events and the RSE title because my crew chief and I knew how to tune the car for each challenge. We got the max out of it, and knew we'd done our best. In this case, that was enough (just barely) to win. All the other events were worth this education.

And yet you did win an event. So is it really all that impossible? And who says you need to compete with anyone to do a track day or AutoX with you car? These events are all about having fun with the cars we like. This is not the SCCA Nationals. They are supposed to be events where we can have fun thrashing our cars the way we want with like minded individuals. When I get on track or AutoX I want to improve myself to be better. And in doing so I learn more about driving and what my car wants and how to make it better. If we get to the point where all this is just a competition then there are only going to be a choice few vehicles chosen because those are the only ones that can compete. Again I say build what you want, the way you want, and drive it when and where you want. I have been taking odd vehicles and making them run(and yes even compete) for 17 years now. I took an S-10 and made alot of much more expensive sports cars look silly back then. It was good enough to win a championship in ESP with a V-6 in what was then considered the muscle car class. So you can do whatever you set your mind to.

[nekkidhillbilly]

all for it

but i would keep something like a 390 in it

[Off Duty]

I wouldn't do it Gordon. For several reasons. I like the "unusual" builds, and I do like 61-66 T-birds, BUT......

1. Although we don't expect to ever get our money back out of these types of cars, the unusual vehicles take an even bigger hit than the more popular models, and take much longer to sell if you decide you want out. The more heavily modified the car is, the harder it is to find that one person who wants it. I don't think there's a line of buyers waiting to buy fully PTed versions of a 65 T-bird. How much time & money do you think the gentleman that passed away had in the car already vs. what it is for sale for?


My thought is not that much.
The car ran, was prepped and ready for paint, and the interior was next on his list, when he passed.
I've never owned or built a car or bike, with the intent of selling. That's the last thing that crosses my mind, if it enters the picture at all.
I didn't really make anything on my 87 vette when sold. As a matter of fact, I lost money.
But I also had several years of head turning, knuckle whitening, tooth grinning fun with the car!
In the end, when you add it all up in dollars and cents, I lost. When you take the enjoyment, the wow factor, and the friends I made through the association with the car, I made out like a bandit!

2. The finishing of a car with the mods discussed above will take time, LOTS of time. Unless you have a shop build it, or have a tremendous amount of free time, 1-2-3 or more years would be a rather speedy build of the scope mentioned in posts above. The grandaughter will be years older before you can even drive the car. She will reach an age where hanging with friends will probably take priority over car shows with gramps in how long? Meanwhile instead of taking her to car shows or whatever with your free time you'll be wrenching.

well chit!
Thanks for the buzz kill bro:lmao:

Seriously, although you're correct if I were planning a frame off resto or total remake.

For the immediate future, I'll keep it simple.
Get the old buzzard running, get a set of bags under her, and some paint on it's wings.
From there, you can build as you have the time and resources.

The fact is, I can probably have it painted and running in a few months.
It certainly won't be the "dream cruiser" I've depicted here, but hell, I don't have that kind of disposable $$$$ laying around anyway.

Being the sole breadwinner in a family with 4 adults and 1 child, ain't all that and a bag O' chips:pat:

Although I don't have a shop to work in, I do have access to a couple of friends shops that are willing to let me park it there, and help me work on it.
One mechanical and one paint & body.
The P&B guy is a huge custom car guy, and really knows his stuff. He's already helping me start on my son's 87 Grand National, and my 89 Landcruiser wagon.
I also have access to a custom "rod shop" which certainly won't hurt.
Rather than buying a lot of parts 'off the shelf', we'll probably do some experimentation and fabricate what we can.

As for the car shows, I've NEVER attended a show with the intent of winning.
I don't have the $$$$ to win, nor am I anal retentive enough to care.
The hours of polishing and waxing, matching part numbers, and all that crap, just isn't me.

I truly appreciate those that do, and respect what it takes.
But it's not for me.

I've always gone for the friends, the "cause" (used to do a lot of children's fundraisers), or the locale. If it was a beautiful venue, close the water...I was there!:cheers:

Heck, one night I attended a children's fundraiser in Bradenton.
It was a last minute thing, and I took the old 87 vette.
I didn't even bother to wash the road dirt off, and parked it in a corner.
I registered for the show to make a donation and got a dash plaque.
At that point, I was done, and went off with my buds for Hooters and cokes.

At the end of the night....I WON!:dunno:
Don't even remember why, but it was funnier than hell :rotfl:

I'll continue in that vein, and take the family with me.
Besides, who know? Might take another "Rat Rod" trophy again:naughty:

3. Since you did mention you're a grandpa, we can assume you're not 20-25-30 years old with many decades of time for future builds. Whats the realistic likelyhood of building another car that you really like AFTER a build of the T-bird with the scope discussed previously? Would it make sense to get in a car with a higher initial cost that you could enjoy immediately? With the costs of a frame, suspension, driveline, wheels/tires, and paint job added to the initial cost of the car you will probably be in it for 20 thousand or more . You could buy a nice driver of a model that you like more than the T-bird, and slowly make mods that will improve handling, speed, and braking WHILE you enjoy driving it to shows, events, etc.

See above:cheers:
At this time, I have:
87 GN and an 89 Landcruiser FJ62, that are both undergoing mods.
The 87 GN is not a driver.
The 89 Landcruiser is. As a matter of fact, the grandbaby and I are planning some canoe/kayak trips, "yuppie" camping (Say Disney), and some explorations of the State of Florida and some of it's off the road, back road towns in the very near future. All in that Land cruiser, or "Crusher" as it's lovingly known.

And yes, I'll be 55 in October.
Time?
Who knows?
My dad lived to be 93 before a stroke got him and in 3 days, he was gone.
Up to that point, he drove daily, maintained his own affairs, and had full faculties and mobility.

Many of the guys that hang around the shops I've mentioned, and even more that attend the events, are in their 50's through their late 70's, and still building hotrods.
With any luck, by the grace of God go I:fingersx:

You never know when your ticket's going to get punched.
Between 30 years total as a LEO, my military history, and present occupations and interests, I've had more than one occasion to think "well, it's been a hell of a ride!"

The fact is, I could go buy a new Camaro, mod it up a bit, throw on some nice rims and tires, and drive cross country with absolutely no concern(with a AAA card of course).
And I'd blend into the countryside like everyone else.

One day, the right 2nd gen will come along, and I'll pull the trigger on that to. But for now, I'm really diggin' the "lead sled" appeal of this ride. FWIW, I've always had a little place in my heart for the old school buzzards.
A neighbor had a pristine early model (61?). Always drooled over that thing.
So it's not something I'm unfamiliar with.

4. CHROME! Lots of it, and it's expensive to have redone. Have you really looked at how much chrome is on/in a 65? I would not be surprised at a bill for several thousand dollars to get all the chrome redone. The bumpers are massive and the interior of 65's are overloaded with chrome. With the humidity where you live constant care of the replated chrome will be mandatory if you expect to keep it nice.

You make a great point.
If I were going for a resto-mod, or cared about the chrome, then I'd be concerned.
MY actual thought was to powder coat a good bit of it.

Remember my earlier statement?
I'm too damned lazy to be polishing acres of chrome:rotfl: and too ADD to care.

MY OPINIONS: If you're dead set on building a 61-66 T-bird you might want to look at the slightly earlier ones. I prefer the exterior lines and interior styling of the 61-63's with the curved dash that wraps into the door panels creating a "pod" on each side of the console for the driver and front seat passenger. You really have to sit in one to appreciate it, very comforting. The 61-3 front end seems more gracefull and appears more aerodynamic from the side because of the way the front fenders come to a point on the sides of the headlights. I also like rear fender wingettes and the jet engine inspired tail lights. I'd only do a vert in any of the 61-66 cars. In my opinion, that generation of T-birds look like they were designed as verts and then they stuck a hardtop on them.

In all seriousness my friend, thank you for all your input.
As you know, I've followed a lot of your stuff on here and the posts on our Florida Musclecar site as well (on there, I'm "Off Duty"), and respect your ability and candor:twothumbs

I too like the lines of the 60-63 T-bird, but I'm set on the 64-7 unless something falls in my lap.

The 60-3's are indeed very sleek and graceful. Almost as thought they're gliding sitting still.
They sort of remind me of a snow sled from the front.
And the round lights are definite a plus.

But the bottom line is, I've found 2 projects, both 65's, and they're in my price range.
Besides, after looking at the square bodies, I really like the look.
And you just don't see that many of these model years customized.

You have to remember, I've had a 63 Impala, 60's Nova, and a couple of 77 grand prix.
I like the big square bodies.

I don't have the time, money, and for the most part, the interest, to go racing anymore, so I think this is going to suit me just fine.:smoke:

[Scott Parkhurst]

And yet you did win an event. So is it really all that impossible? And who says you need to compete with anyone to do a track day or AutoX with you car? These events are all about having fun with the cars we like. This is not the SCCA Nationals. They are supposed to be events where we can have fun thrashing our cars the way we want with like minded individuals. When I get on track or AutoX I want to improve myself to be better. And in doing so I learn more about driving and what my car wants and how to make it better. If we get to the point where all this is just a competition then there are only going to be a choice few vehicles chosen because those are the only ones that can compete. Again I say build what you want, the way you want, and drive it when and where you want. I have been taking odd vehicles and making them run(and yes even compete) for 17 years now. I took an S-10 and made alot of much more expensive sports cars look silly back then. It was good enough to win a championship in ESP with a V-6 in what was then considered the muscle car class. So you can do whatever you set your mind to.

I hear ya pal. You make some strong points. I just wanted to warn the guy a bit...but having fun requires no warning.

For what its worth, I'd love to see him finish this car, and run it against someone in a similarly-built 63-65 Riviera. 2 of my favorite cars ever...

[Off Duty]

all for it

but i would keep something like a 390 in it

Thanks man.
The possibilities are endless, and at this point, all speculation.

I think it has a 390 in it now.
I'd like to go modern for the dependability, reliability, easier power and economy.
The ability to get in at a moments notice, turn the key, and drive as far as the fuel holds out.

On the flip side, a radical TT or blown 390 would be kick ass.

[chaz75]

I say do it,cant be that hard if you really want to do it, im getting tired or camaros and mustangs all the time even though i really like them, so screw'em and build it.

[Off Duty]

I forgot to mention.
Although I prefer the look of a convertible, and being in Florida, there's almost year round use for one, there are two reasons why I choose not to go that route.

1) I'm burned out with chasing leaks and wind noise!
My 87 vette, although it was a targa, still leaked and creaked.
My 2000 Z28 was a convertible. Overall it was pretty tight, but in a heavy rain, it leaked.

2) I'm BALD!
After way too many years of sun overexposure, the doc has "suggested" that I wear a cover any time I'm outside...which is most of the time.
Thus the reason when you see me, I'll probably have on a Barmah Outback hat, Buffett baseball cap, or a drivers cap, depending on the event.
I seldom go outside without something these days.
That said, I don't want to have to chase it down when it blows off!

I'll stick to the HT's.

[Off Duty]

Going to look at the buzzard today.
I need the break from what's going on now anyway, and there's nothing I can do:(

I'll try to post some phone pics up tonight.

[SRD art]

Good luck, hope it lives up to your expectations...

[Off Duty]

Thanks.

[406 Q-ship]

Gordon, what a great find. I am a died in the wool GM guy but I have always loved the 64-66 birds (my stepdad had one). I think a nice mild spring drop to the suspension, some creative swaybars, and good set of shocks (if anything is available for a 65 T-bird). I would loose the 390 FE (heavy and not really powerful) for a new 5.0 Ford crate engine (very sweet engine) with an AODE on the back (the 65 will probably have 3.00 gear) would make an awesome fun Thunderbird.....or a Funderbird. If you did keep the FE, go with a 428 or with creative parts interchanging a 454 FE, make that heavy bird fly. I don't know about doing CF body parts, that would get very expensive for such unique body style. Even with alot of light weight parts it will still be a 3800-4000 lbs heavy car. I would not pay alot for the car though.

[rogue]

its a cruiser not a hot rod.

[Off Duty]

Gordon, what a great find. I am a died in the wool GM guy but I have always loved the 64-66 birds (my stepdad had one). I think a nice mild spring drop to the suspension, some creative swaybars, and good set of shocks (if anything is available for a 65 T-bird). I would loose the 390 FE (heavy and not really powerful) for a new 5.0 Ford crate engine (very sweet engine) with an AODE on the back (the 65 will probably have 3.00 gear) would make an awesome fun Thunderbird.....or a Funderbird. If you did keep the FE, go with a 428 or with creative parts interchanging a 454 FE, make that heavy bird fly. I don't know about doing CF body parts, that would get very expensive for such unique body style. Even with alot of light weight parts it will still be a 3800-4000 lbs heavy car. I would not pay alot for the car though.

Hey, thanks for all the info:twothumbs
If it's running (or able to be made run quickly), I'll keep what it's got and start working on the body and suspension.
In the end though, there will definitely be a new, late model running gear and power plant :)

The big thing for me is the way a car handles.
My goal is to make it solid, nimble enough to handle the curves (think mountain roads, etc), and comfortable enough to drive cross country without need of an on board chiropractor.

It's never going to be an auto-x or 1/4 mile contender.

I'm fortunate to have access to a shop and body man that is a true artisan, yet still very reasonable, and loves oddball customs.
And he's willing to let me help out, which is all the better. I don't really have the skills nor tolls, but I do have the vision and a penchant for getting my hands dirty.

But even if we can shave off the weight with CF fenders and hoods, it's still a big mama-jama!

Hopefully, in the end, it'll end up being something different. Something that will turn heads (and not in disgust), and a car that will be fun to drive.


its a cruiser not a hot rod.

That's it!:twothumbs
Low, wide and hopefully faster than the guy next to me thinks:lmao:

[Off Duty]

Well, work and weather schedules didn't work out, and I didn't get over to see the car:(
Going to shoot for today.:fingersx:

[zombiekiller]

Gordon, what a great find. I am a died in the wool GM guy but I have always loved the 64-66 birds (my stepdad had one). I think a nice mild spring drop to the suspension, some creative swaybars, and good set of shocks (if anything is available for a 65 T-bird). I would loose the 390 FE (heavy and not really powerful) for a new 5.0 Ford crate engine (very sweet engine) with an AODE on the back (the 65 will probably have 3.00 gear) would make an awesome fun Thunderbird.....or a Funderbird. If you did keep the FE, go with a 428 or with creative parts interchanging a 454 FE, make that heavy bird fly. I don't know about doing CF body parts, that would get very expensive for such unique body style. Even with alot of light weight parts it will still be a 3800-4000 lbs heavy car. I would not pay alot for the car though.


Addco makes sway kits for t-birds, or rather sway kits that fit tbirds. RCD makes some nice tuned, adjustable shocks for them too. I'm not sure about off the shelf springs, I'd have to check my books and look at the rates and ID/OD of the springs. Coil Spring Specialties will be happy to make whatever ride height/rate springs you want for about 400 bucks for all four corners.

gordon- if you do move forward with the bird, let me know and i'll share some of my parts research on fitment. I have the same issue that you'll have, an oddball car with not much aftermarket performance support. The upside it, figuring out how to accomplish what you want exercises your brain and breeds some ingenuity! a few of the parts that I'm using also happen to fit t-birds.

There are a few guys that squeeze some BIG horsepower out the FEs, but it'd won't ever be the thin skinny girl at the school dance if you stick with the FE. It'll sound real cool though and pull a stump out of the ground if you chose to.

[Off Duty]

Addco makes sway kits for t-birds, or rather sway kits that fit tbirds. RCD makes some nice tuned, adjustable shocks for them too. I'm not sure about off the shelf springs, I'd have to check my books and look at the rates and ID/OD of the springs. Coil Spring Specialties will be happy to make whatever ride height/rate springs you want for about 400 bucks for all four corners.

gordon- if you do move forward with the bird, let me know and i'll share some of my parts research on fitment. I have the same issue that you'll have, an oddball car with not much aftermarket performance support. The upside it, figuring out how to accomplish what you want exercises your brain and breeds some ingenuity! a few of the parts that I'm using also happen to fit t-birds.

There are a few guys that squeeze some BIG horsepower out the FEs, but it'd won't ever be the thin skinny girl at the school dance if you stick with the FE. It'll sound real cool though and pull a stump out of the ground if you chose to.

:smoke:Alright! Now we're getting somewhere.
Thanks for the info and the offer, I'll definitely take you up on it!

That's the great part is, if in the end, you meet your goals, knowing that not just anyone could pull it off, then you've done something!
Sort of the same reasons I joined the military and got into law enforcement.
Not everyone could do it!:cheers:

[showa]

Saw this the other day and had to turn around and get a pic for you....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2641987540104778475exljTF)

[Ridequality]

Any updates on the Tbird??

[Scott Parkhurst]

Please make this car happen...I'd love to see it on-track.

[TheJDMan]

While this is not strictly a Pro-Touring build, the mods Jay did on this 66 Galaxie would definately apply to your T-Bird.


http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/cars/ford/restoration-blog-1966-ford-galaxie-ultimate-edition/#item=152105