New Camaro sure is impractical.

[Chad-1stGen]

So I finally got around to driving one of the new Camaros this past weekend. I rented a loaded 6 cylinder hard top model and drove it around for four days. As I haven’t had any real interest in purchasing the car I haven’t read any reviews on it or followed it so I had no expectations other than the exterior looks have grown on me and it looks cool.

First, the cool stuff I liked about the car:
- As mentioned I really like the exterior styling. Great looking car.
- Some of the interior materials are nice such as the seats and steering wheel (my car was leather)
- Heads up display
- Sport mode for the transmission and paddle shifters on the wheel (though shift from first to second was a bit sluggish when using the paddle shifters)
- V6 power was impressive. Car was able to get up and scoot very well.
- Lay out of controls was pretty intuitive for a long time GM driver and easy to use

Ok the stuff that I didn’t like
- I still remember reviewers blasting the 4th gen Camaro for poor visibility and the visibility in this car blew my freeking mind!!! I mean that absolute most terrible visibility out of any car I have ever been in, in my life. I can handle poor rear window visibility and even some big blind spots in the rear quarter area. However, the dash and door lines are so high that even forward and sideways visibility sucked. I got used to it and could easily drive the car around but I didn’t ever LIKE it. I still can’t believe they designed it to be this bad.
- Headroom totally sucked! I’m really hoping that because the car I drove had the sun roof that the normal coupe has an extra inch or two of headroom. I had to tilt the seat to a ridiculous angle to prevent my head from hitting the ceiling. I also found it really weird that if I lowered my head so that my hair wasn’t rubbing all over the ceiling then my eyes were low enough that the bottom of the heads up display began to cut off (though upon reflection maybe that can be adjusted?). My dad has a late model mustang and he gave me a ride at one point over the weekend to my car and I could sit normally in the seat and have loads of room to spare above my head.
- WHAT the hell was GM thinking in the trunk design? I actually laughed out loud when my wife opened the truck to put our bags in. The trunk itself is plenty roomy, you just can’t get your bags in there lol. The lid is already somewhat small which given the body lines I agreed with but the tail light parts protruded into the trunk too.

Just like the fourth Gen Camaro I think you have to really want a Camaro to buy one of these. For the more casual driver any performance advantage is not going to offset some of the crazy limitations the car has that the Mustang doesn’t.

Final note. Nobody had reset the average MPG tracker on the computer (based on the average mpg not moving my whole 4 days and both trip meters still equaling the odometer). In 7,600 miles the 6 cyl car has averaged 22.2 mpg.

Anyhow, just thought I’d share the experience with my car friends.

[rustomatic]

It seems par for the course: They made "improvements," but didn't think about much from a logical perspective. I had similar thoughts when testing the new 370z a couple years ago. You couldn't see a damn thing out of it while driving, and the visual changes they'd made were just ugly--it was like they'd gone for the look of a BMW Z4 and failed. The previous model (350z) was better (I had one, and had lots of issues with it as well...)--I imagine many Camarophiles have been saying the same thing, large-size Geo Storm comments notwithstanding.

[Vicinity]

I'm glad they made another, but I'm not happy with it. The ass end is too large for my tastes, I really don't like the dash, and the windows are tiny.

That said, the leather interior is really nice, and the power plant will become cheaper and eventually enter my car. :)

[ssmike]

Chad,

I hear you on the head room thing......I am tall, but fit in just about everything I've sat in. I tried to test drive a hard top SS model and my head was touching the headliner with the seat all the way down and angled way back.......

Obvious deal breaker - I didn't even try to drive it.

[rfalker1]

hahhahah I understand. I am 6'7 and have the 2ss manual. Even though i understand ur complaints i love it. It fits fine. especially with how adjustable the front seat is.
But I also like to recline my chair, so maybe thats the difference. However the trunk is terrible lol and no visibility out the rear window.

[trapin]

I think when history looks back people will refer to the 5th gen Camaro as the "Fat Boy" Camaro.

Chad you're analysis is spot on. Yes the car is absolutely beautiful in it's design but once you sit in it you descover it's limitations which are ultimately a consequence of the car's exterior theme. What also drives these limitations is the vehicle's Zeta architecture. The belt line on the car is high but the holden version has a higher roof. Design fought tooth and nail to get that roof as low as possible, I always felt it needed another inch at least and I don't think it would have hurt the car's looks too much. The interior has a cavernous feel to it (almost like riding in a tank). But still I like the car as a whole. Not a fan of the interior though...never have been.

I will say that the non-sunroof car does have more headroom making it more enjoyable to drive. Last week I had to oppurtunity to drive my Uncle's 2011 Mustang GT for a few days because he needed to borrow my truck. I hate to admit this but the Mustang feels lighter, nimble, & more athletic.

My hopes are the 6th gen car will go in this direction.

[406 Q-ship]

The high body sides is the way the manufactures are getting through the newest side impact standards. I bet the next generation Mustangs may suffer with the same high sides and mail slot windows like the Camaro and Challanger have. If you really want to see how tall the 5th Gen Camaro really is, park it next to a 4th gen f-body and the new Camaro is massive. I love the 5th Gen Camaro for its handling, styling, and power......now the weight is rediculous (it is a fat pig!) and the head room is too tight (if your over 6ft don't even consider a sunroof). I hated the button shifter on the steering wheel (GM if your going to do paddle shifters then do PADDLE SHIFTERS!!!). I think that GM did an OK job with the Camaro, and that Ford did a slightly better Mustang with the S197 but take the best of both and make an awesome sports coupe. I would still like to have a new Camaro but I would not give up my Monte Carlo, Malibu, or even my C10 truck for it.

[olason]

The problem I see with the 5th gen camaro, is it uses the same platform as a pontiac g8. If your building a sports car, why use the same platform as a sedan for a coupe. I know the cts is done that way, and I hate the butt end of those. I hope gm cleans up a little bit with the next generations of their models in the next few years. I still haven't owned a foreign car, and I want to keep it that way.

[67zo6Camaro]

Nice personal review. Thanks

[Kenova]

The problem I see with the 5th gen camaro, is it uses the same platform as a pontiac g8. If your building a sports car, why use the same platform as a sedan for a coupe.
Cost.
The very same reason F-bodies and X-bodies shared platforms for the first two generations. Without those cost savings the current Camaro would never have made it to the dealers show room.

Ken

[mikedc]

The 2010 Camaro is probably the first car in history where customizers will RAISE the roof to improve it.

[nekkidhillbilly]

in all fairness ive only thought the 2nd gens where even decently comfortable

[parsonsj]

I used to describe my long-gone 2001 Z28 as big on the outside and small on the inside.

[BonzoHansen]

how can a car that big have useless back seats?

[Ishmael]

Tony, you said 6th gen. That's awesome. What I would love to see on the 5th gen (don't laugh) is t-roofs.
Olason, as far as platform is concerned it doesn't mean that they can just switch bodies. Besides, have you driven a G8? My buddy has the GT. It will put down high 13s in stock form, handles nicely, and fits like a glove. I love that car - nothing wrong with the platform.

[trapin]

Tony, you said 6th gen. That's awesome.
6th gen; as an assumption. I am not privy to that information.

You might see a mid-cycle enhancement at some point but beyond that I have no idea. .....and of course I couldn't reveal it if I did.

[nekkidhillbilly]

the g8 imo is the best car been built in recent years

[-The Stig-]

They are pretty nice to drive, it's a shame it died with Pontiac. :(

I'm not sure what's taking so long for GM to just re-badge it as a Chevy of some sort and make some cash with it.

[Vicinity]

They are pretty nice to drive, it's a shame it died with Pontiac. :(

I'm not sure what's taking so long for GM to just re-badge it as a Chevy of some sort and make some cash with it.

It's a Caprice. They're already fitting them for LEO's.

[Mingus]

I've owned at least one of every other generation of Camaro (68 SS350, '77, '88 IROC, '91 Z/28 convertible, '93 Z/28, '94 Z/28). I really wanted to like the new one but it just doesn't do it for me personally. I like the new Mustang, but I wanted a Challenger since I first saw the concept car in '06. I ended up buying an '09 B5 Blue R/T 6 speed for a daily driver. Even though it's the biggest and slowest of the 3 new pony cars, to me it was the most comfortable for "normal" driving. I have put 49,000 miles on it in two years (luckily '09's have a lifetime drivetrain warranty) and I still love it.

[Vegas69]

They have grown on me about as much as my favorite mole.

[MyFriendScott]

Design fought tooth and nail to get that roof as low as possible......

There is a balance to be struck between design and engineering. In the end however, car sales have always done better when design wins out over bean counters and engineers. The Camaro continues to out sell the Mustang and Challenger because of its winning design IMHO.

[parsonsj]

car sales have always done better when design wins out over bean counters and engineersI resemble that remark. :) Surely engineers deserve more love than to be classified as equal to bean counters!

Seriously, though, I'd guess all facets of a new automotive offering have to be weighed, balanced, and compromised. The cas to be buildable, drivable, maintainable, and still catch the fancy of consumers.

[Happyfunballs]

Surely engineers deserve more love than to be classified as equal to bean counters!

Yes, we do. The mere sharing of words in a sentence invokes a slight emotional reaction.

[trapin]

I don't know, anytime I'm in a meeting with Engineers they're always throwing around cost amounts in response to any idea we have. A classic example is molding costs for parts. You could ask for a flange to be a certain way or to change the die pull angle in order to get a certain look or to use a certain grain on a part and they respond with, "that's a $30,000 change right there." "You wanna do that it's gonna cost $155K or $89K".

Maybe that assessment isn't too far off. LOL.

[Steve Chryssos]

I've driven quite a few as press cars. Out of the box they feel like roof chop, 2 door Suburbans. Good luck trying to use an ATM Machine as the door sills are particularly high. Also the sunroof cars do not offer enough clearance for my hair, but that could be considered a personal problem.

As enthusiasts however, we like to take things apart and make them our own. Ditch those monstrous 20" or 22" wheels, lower the car and swap in some Recaros and the ergos improve dramatically.

[parsonsj]

In the software world, we engineers talk in terms of LOC. Lines of code. We provide estimates for effort in LOC. Others turn that into customer costs, but we do talk that way: "you want to add visible status and user commanding for that new NTP switch? It'll be about 750 LOC".

I just have no idea how much money 750 LOC actually is.

You need to know that effort in order to make good decisions. Otherwise you could be building a $90,000 sub-compact. :)

[parsonsj]

Also the sunroof cars do not offer enough clearance for my hair, but that could be considered a personal problem. I'm convinced it's a GM thing. I never have enough headroom in a GM passenger car. Add a helmet to the mix and I have to do the "ghetto driving position" to get my noggin positioned somewhere reasonable. Maybe I just need longer arms.

Fords seem to have more headroom, for whatever reason.

[JEFFTATE]

The New 5th Gen Camaro drives well . And the styling is cool , like a concept car .
But they do look a little bloated , and the blind spots are bad ..

GM should do this :
Get rid of the blind spots.
Put the car on a diet .
Give it more head room .
Make the back seat useful ..

[DartorDemon]

The real problem with the new camaro is that they took that pos from concept to production. I mean i can handle fugly if it performs well(mustang) or i can handle great looks with so-so performance(ie challenger), but the camaro just fails on both fronts.

[BonzoHansen]

it does perform well. maybe not well enough to make up for its shortcomings

[04ctd]

the "armored truck gun slit" windows just kill me.

i have owned 8~10 or so Camaros (still have 4th gen) and i have not even contemplated the new one.
wife wants to go set in a convertible. i don't need another "unfunctional" car.

before we buy any car, we say "it has to do three things very well, and those three things are: ___ ___ ___"

right now, we have a 07 tahoe with 3rd row seating
(gbabies, DD, vacation, groceries, mini tow rig)

and a Dodge Mega Cab CTD
(tow rig, family toter, covered bed, was DD until diesel popped)

for a fun car, we have a 66 chevelle
(DD, date nite, use it in parades, take Gkids for fun runs for burgers, grocery getter.)

our 4th gen is in storage, because, it doesn't do many things very well. :(
you cant get babyseats in there very well :(

i don't see the new camaro doing 3 things well

[claytonisbob]

hahhahah I understand. I am 6'7 and have the 2ss manual. Even though i understand ur complaints i love it. It fits fine. especially with how adjustable the front seat is.
But I also like to recline my chair, so maybe thats the difference. However the trunk is terrible lol and no visibility out the rear window.

I don't see how... I'm 6'6" and I could not fit in a 5th gen with a sun roof. Not sure how much not having a sun roof would buy, but I don't see it being enough to make me not have to lean so far back I can't see. The car feels bigger than my Chevelle on the outside, Miata-small on the inside. Can you even find a SS without a sunroof? If it like most cars I've seen, the upgraded models always seem to come with sunroofs.

It's funny though, I do fit ok in a 4th gen, C5 and C6 'vette and the newer mustangs.

[CreepinDeth]

I'm a HUGE fan of the 2012 Bumblebee edition.
The previous Bumblebee was gayer then a bag of d**ks, but this one is wicked.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33031095@N03/6769001249/sizes/l/in/photostream/
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[barraza]

I'm not sure why so many take it personally.

2010 sales
Camaro 81,299
Mustang 73,716

2011 Sales
Camaro 88,249
Mustang 70,438

Bottom line is that GM builds what they think will sell, given the money and platform constraints they have to work in. The Camaro is certainly not a sales bust, and neither is the Mustang for that matter. Both are very successful.

The real question is, "Is it Practical for YOU?". As in you personally. I for instance, dont give a da*n whether you find any of my cars "practical". They are what I want, so they are what I have. And who says a car has to be practical anyway? No car in existence today would truly be called "practical" by everyone.

No, I don't have a new Camaro either, but my 84 year old dad has one. He loves it. I have driven it and it is a fine car. Perfect no, but if you are like me and outside the 95th percentile size, almost nothing fits anyway, so live with it.

[406 Q-ship]

I don't know, anytime I'm in a meeting with Engineers they're always throwing around cost amounts in response to any idea we have. A classic example is molding costs for parts. You could ask for a flange to be a certain way or to change the die pull angle in order to get a certain look or to use a certain grain on a part and they respond with, "that's a $30,000 change right there." "You wanna do that it's gonna cost $155K or $89K".

Maybe that assessment isn't too far off. LOL.

As engineers we have budget restrains at times and when a cost is incurred in one area that means cost need to be cut somewhere else. Just think that when a design has been signed off by Corp, Engineering, and design (with complainsts) tooling is done, and Design comes back and wants to make changes that kill that tooling. That will kill profit or the cost preunit must be raised accordingly, then design should have spoken up earlier and or accept they lost the argument.

I hate to bring this up but the Camaro (or any of the pony cars) have never been really all that practical, they all have pretty poor rear seat room (good God the 4th gen has a seat cushion but no seat). Headroom is tighter than a typical sedan, agreed the 5th is tight if you have a tall torso which includes me but my head is in the head liner of a 2nd Gen when it has aftermarket seats. The rear seat head room in the Mustang is a joke unless your 5 feet tall. Trunk space is good in the 5th gen, opening is not user friendly but for the rest of the F-bodies they have tiny trunks (remember the Camaro brough us the spacer saver spared to have any kind of trunk room). Blind spots, all new cars have horrid A-pillar blind spots due to roll-over standards. Does the new Camaro have these issue.......yes in spades but the 1 st gen had them too, just put it in prespective.

[Chad-1stGen]

Well I for one was disappointed to see the Camaro lineup killed off after 2002. One of the things I had in mind with respect to "practical" was that if GM doesn't make the car appealing enough it won't sell enough units. Its news to me and I'm happy to hear that it is outselling the Mustang. While personally, I've never purchased anything with 4 wheels that wasn't GM I wouldn't hesitate to take a new model Mustang over the Camaro. Especially, the Boss version with the new 5.0 motor :)

[crustysack]

I really don't think the word "practicality" comes into ANYONES mind who is contemplating purchasing this Camaro- its a 2 door sports car. All this car needs to do is look cool and go fast- I think it looks cool, I can not say personally how fast it goes since I have not driven one. If you want practicality buy a minivan, or a Prius.

[Chad-1stGen]

Ok let me rephrase, the 5th gen Camaro is a crappy sports car. It's too heavy. The headroom is the worst of any sports car I've been in. The visibility is the worst of any sports car I've been in. There are other options out there that are superior (Mustang, Corvette, etc).

[Vegas69]

I'm really starting to get the feeling you don't like the new Camaro. ha

[79-TA]

The high body sides is the way the manufactures are getting through the newest side impact standards. I bet the next generation Mustangs may suffer with the same high sides and mail slot windows like the Camaro and Challanger have. If you really want to see how tall the 5th Gen Camaro really is, park it next to a 4th gen f-body and the new Camaro is massive. I love the 5th Gen Camaro for its handling, styling, and power......now the weight is rediculous (it is a fat pig!) and the head room is too tight (if your over 6ft don't even consider a sunroof). I hated the button shifter on the steering wheel (GM if your going to do paddle shifters then do PADDLE SHIFTERS!!!). I think that GM did an OK job with the Camaro, and that Ford did a slightly better Mustang with the S197 but take the best of both and make an awesome sports coupe. I would still like to have a new Camaro but I would not give up my Monte Carlo, Malibu, or even my C10 truck for it.

Only slightly? I was really excited when the 5th gen came out, but I now actively hate the car from the needless and disjointed "Corvette spice" styling cues to the 11/10's scale to the horrible driver accommodations. The S197 on the other hand, I've loved since it came out and it has more than lived up to it's looks. I'm afraid if you take the best of both cars you just end up with another Mustang, just with a transmission that wouldn't break (and probably still with the live axle.)

Is anyone else bothered by the weird hard plastic insert in the 5th gen's doors? For perspective, you have an owner of a 1979 Trans Am complaining about the feeling of interior materials in a modern car.

[Chad-1stGen]

I'm really starting to get the feeling you don't like the new Camaro. ha

Haha Todd. Now try not to read to much into my posts :D

[CreepinDeth]

Ok let me rephrase, the 5th gen Camaro is a crappy sports car. It's too heavy.

It' a Pony Car / Muscle Car actually.

Plus it does high 12's in the quarter even at the big bertha weight class it's in.
It can pull a stronger skid pad G then any 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th gen.

If we're talking modified cars, then the 5th gen can be modified as well.
Not to mention the ZL-1 destroyed the Nurburgring .......and Ford knows
it can't touch it, that's why they won't release the 650hp Shelby's run stats at the 'ring.

[406 Q-ship]

Only slightly? I was really excited when the 5th gen came out, but I now actively hate the car from the needless and disjointed "Corvette spice" styling cues to the 11/10's scale to the horrible driver accommodations. The S197 on the other hand, I've loved since it came out and it has more than lived up to it's looks. I'm afraid if you take the best of both cars you just end up with another Mustang, just with a transmission that wouldn't break (and probably still with the live axle.)

Is anyone else bothered by the weird hard plastic insert in the 5th gen's doors? For perspective, you have an owner of a 1979 Trans Am complaining about the feeling of interior materials in a modern car.

When I was saying combine the best of the Mustang and Camaro. I would like the Body looks of the 2005-2009 Mustang along with its weight but the Camaro's driveline and suspension. I am sorry but until Ford came out with the 5.0 in 2011 the GT Mustang was a joke, I have never liked any of the Mod Motor Fords. The LS gets it done better for cheaper. Transmission wise the Mustang and Camaro are alike whether it is the TKO's in the Stang (or the T56 in the 2011 up) and the T56 the Camaro uses. I am sorry but for a great handling street car the independent suspension in the rear of the Camaro is better, on a nice smooth race track the Mustang does very well (even does OK in the rough but not as good as the Camaro). I think both cars have their faults and I would love to have either one, just find a way to loose 400 lbs off the Camaro and then it is Camaro all the way for me. 3800 lbs and heavy a$$ 20 inch wheels for a Pony Car, what was GM thinking?

[ATOMonkey]

I had a similar experience when driving the (then new) Solstice/Sky. I could not believe how hard it was to see out of the car.

I was in a vert and split time between looking over the top of the windshield and through it. I'm not even that tall. I'm only 5'7" (although I have short arms/legs).

If you get low enough to look through the windshield, then the dash blocks part of the road.

Cool looking cars. Very hard to drive though when you can't see where you're going.