CTS-V Brembo 6 piston swap on a 1st Gen

[CrazyLarrys68]

Hey Guys and Gals,

I've owned my Camaro since '94. It's a L34 w/ RS options. I hate to "cut up" the car, The Gul Mod, solid bushings, and sway bar in the front are done.The 4 piston irons just don't stop the way I would like them to. Other than the obvious caliper, what else do I have to look forward to. I will be buying parts/pieces as I can afford, so a kit isn't an option. I bought another set of stock upper and lowers w/ drums and understand the machining of the front hub. Which spindle of the two (if there is a diff) is stronger? Which hat/rotor should I use? 13" 14"? What brackets? Lines? I'll be buying wheels later to fit the set up. Please help! My brain hurts.

[Apogee]

Well, that's a lot of questions. Per your PM, the mounting points for the CTS-V 6-piston Brembos are not the same as the C5/C6 applications, so none of those conversion brackets will cross over as far as I know. The perpendicular radial offset of the caliper mounting holes relative to the centerline of the hub is much shorter (~22mm), so mounting the CTS-V caliper to a C5/C6 adapter bracket will then require a different diameter rotor by twice that amount. Aside from that, you'll also need a rotor with a wide friction annulus to accommodate the 64.14mm [2.53"] radial pad height.

The rotors, brackets and hubs are all linked to one another since those are what set the axial position of everything and the calipers must be centered over the rotors. There are several ways to go about designing a brake kit, but as you select individual items, whether that be hubs, rotors or brackets, your locking yourself into other decisions. Since you've already decided that you're going to run OE drum hubs, that locks in your rotor mounting point. The next thing to determine is which rotor you want to use which will then define where the caliper needs to be mounted for proper alignment. That's where the design of the bracket comes into play...it may or may not be possible given the other items you've chosen.

HTH,
Tobin
KORE3

[CrazyLarrys68]

Tobin,

Thanks for the info. and for your help. I'll do some more math and try to figure it out.

[Hondo78]

I am doing a 6 piston CTS V swap as well, I will get them by Friday, price is right and they are a center and go caliper, the 14.3" zo6 rotor works well and comes from GM drilled for under $100, ea. The CTS V calipers are expensive, I guess due to small production numbers. I am building a.. CTS r, or a 6cyl coupe CTS with the goodies from the V series. So I can send you some measurements once I get the set.
FYI do a search on a gen 4 camaro build on line with many of the parts and sources you can use. I have see a set on a 66 GTO as well, so brackets are available depending on what you are running for spindles.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/brakes/1011gmhtp_cadillac_cts_v_brembo_brakes_nitto_tires _wheels/viewall.html

Good luck, great project

[kllrvet]

wow

[CrazyLarrys68]

Hey Hondo! Thanks for the reply. I almost forgot I posted. Have yet to do the swap. The brackets, lines will probably be ordered from Ed Miller. Still weighting options. I picked up a hydroboost from a Mustang GT. I've heard that this unit may not work though? Find out I guess. A buddy is going to make the firewall plate. I'll have to out source the lines. Know of anyone who makes a "kit"? I'll need it to go from the Ford Hydro to a late GM IROC box. Still tring to figure which to do. CTS-V 4 pot's vs. 6's...13" vs. 14"...17" vs. 18". Is there a real difference in the two set up's on a non-ABS car? Those six pistons are SIIIICK! I don't know if this will justify the overall cost. INPUT? Oooh! Is there a rotor hat offered that might offset the caliper, placing it further back? Just a thought. Thanks guys

[Hondo78]

My yellow CTS V calipers are in, they are huge! 6 piston units are going to stop the car! The link I sent has the silver calipers listed. The 14.3" Zo6 rotors are listed as well, they can be had for under 100 each drilled and ready to slide on.
On the power steering lines, easy, just cut off the crimped on ends of your IROC box and mate the power steering lines, if they are long enough take them to a full service parts store like an old NAPA store and have them crimped on the old IROC PS box fittings. Or a full service parts store will have the ends, don't forget to put it all together first, on the car and draw a line from the hose to the fitting, to index the crimped line.
Tip- If the hose is too short, they will also have a butt connector, I went from Ford to Toyota just by cutting off enough of each, and a butt crimp in the middle. (This also remedied the metric to SAE size hoses).
Thanks, these brakes are very fair, I paid 1,300 for all four corners!
Also the CTS has a "Lake Model GM Pattern" on the lugs 5 on 120 not 5 on 4 3/4, and the CTS rotors are much more $ than the Z06 14.3 inchers

[Hondo78]

Hey Guys and Gals,

I've owned my Camaro since '94. It's a L34 w/ RS options. I hate to "cut up" the car, The Gul Mod, solid bushings, and sway bar in the front are done.The 4 piston irons just don't stop the way I would like them to. Other than the obvious caliper, what else do I have to look forward to. I will be buying parts/pieces as I can afford, so a kit isn't an option. I bought another set of stock upper and lowers w/ drums and understand the machining of the front hub. Which spindle of the two (if there is a diff) is stronger? Which hat/rotor should I use? 13" 14"? What brackets? Lines? I'll be buying wheels later to fit the set up. Please help! My brain hurts.

Keep your old spindles around,then source some drum brake spindles they have a flat surface with 4 bolt holes to start from. I can usually find early Chevelle, Skylark or Cutlass drum brake spindles and then fab a bracket for what ever you want fora brake option. (Simply reverse the left and right tie rod arm for the Camaro) Also the 4 Piston 2003 to 2008 CTS V brake calipers are smaller but are big stoppers, same 2 ton car after all. I have seen prices sooo cheap from GM. Do a search on this or the Cadillac forum, you will find a dealer who sells for wholesale.
Tip: New units are cheaper than rebuilt in most cases.

[CrazyLarrys68]

Kinda wondered about the other spindle from a Chevelle. Aren't they taller? What effects will this have? I think Mr.Pozzi has a write up somewhere about this subject. I haven't found a def answer on whether this will work for the better. I checked the diff in the Vette rotor vs. the 5th gen Camaro. I didn't have a depth mic on me but there is only a 1/8 in or so diff(Camaro being deeper). If I use the Vette rotor, I still have the choice of sizes. I really don't see where the 1/8 inch in offset is going to make a difference in my selection of wheel.

[Hondo78]

The first gen Camaro Spindle is interchangeable with the mid size car the bolt on tie rods ends they simply reversed left for Right as the Camaro is a rear tie rod, the Chevelle, Monte Carlo, Cutlass etc all have are same unit. However midsize cars have the steering box ahead of the axle.
With Drum brake spindle you have no limit to how large a disk you can hang on a custom bracket off the flat surface. The Gen 2 Trans AM and Olds 88 spindles are taller, and have a special casting number indicating when they are forged. Racers use these on modified cars, as you can run 5 x 5 hubs from the Olds 88 HD or 98 HD. However these have a cast bracket for 11.5" brake calipers.


I just did the same basic thing with my Gen 1 Mustang, and took off the Gen 2 Mustang disk brakes in favor of the '69 spindle from a drum brake car, these are beefy so the increase in Disk size from 10.6" to 13" will be addressing the additional stresses of racing.

BTW - These CTS-V calipers and the Corvette ZO6 units are big, thick, beefy so spacing is everything, my new rims will not work without a 1/4'' spacer, so rim spacing and caliper "Hat depth" is important unless you have a big budget for custom offset rims.

[Chevelle598bb]

Larry keep us updated on your progress. There are many people out there looking to do a cts-v six piston swap but it is still uncharted territory. I'm not sure how easy it will be or not. I think if it was doable, Tobin would already be on it like white on rice. Who knows maybe he is holding out on us!

[jpgolf14]

Guys. I happen to have a full set of front and rear 2009+ CTS-V calipers and rotors waiting to go on my car. Let me know if you need any measurements. The front calipers are huge, over 13" long. Pictures do not do them justice.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/6906764830_16f5173049_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/7052856149_ca1a09c20d_b-1.jpg

[FlyDoc]

Guys. I happen to have a full set of front and rear 2009+ CTS-V calipers and rotors waiting to go on my car. Let me know if you need any measurements. The front calipers are huge, over 13" long. Pictures do not do them justice.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/6906764830_16f5173049_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/7052856149_ca1a09c20d_b-1.jpg

I don't think those will work for your car...

I'll pm you my address so you can send then to me.... you just don't want to do all that work!!

LOL
those are nice...

[Hondo78]

JBG-

Just wondering, why do these say "brembo", my Cadillac sourced set came with a Cadillac symbol on them. I have not found a nice set of vented rotors yet either, I understand the 14.3" Corvette Z06 rotors are fully drilled and are about the same size.

[jpgolf14]

JBG-

Just wondering, why do these say "brembo", my Cadillac sourced set came with a Cadillac symbol on them. I have not found a nice set of vented rotors yet either, I understand the 14.3" Corvette Z06 rotors are fully drilled and are about the same size.

I had mine powdercoated. The rotors are OEM as well but I had them slotted by an ALMS / Indy / Nascar team.

The problem with the Z06 rotors is that the pad surface is not large enough for the CTS-V pads. The V pads are too tall.

[jpgolf14]

I wanted to add a few things since I am further along on my swap and have run into a few issues I'd like to save you guys from.

First. These calipers have different mounting lugs than the Gen I CTS and 2010+ SS Camaro. They are not symmetrical like the calipers on those other cars. One lug is longer than the other. Now, the 2010+ SS Camaro guys have proven that the calipers still are a direct swap, but it mounts the caliper cockeyed. Notice in the picture below. The gap between the pad and the inner radius of the rotor ring is different on the top of the pad compared to the bottom. This is becuase of the non-symmetrical mounting lugs.
58750

Second. These calipers do not have nice flush mounting lugs like the other calipers. So if you car is like my Camaro, where the mounting lugs are at about the same radius as the spindle bolts, you may run into problems where you need to mill down some material on the calipers.

Here is my first version of my bracket. Notice the crazy shape of the bracket to accommodate the lug edges on the caliper.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/6951842756_f29f96f406_b-1.jpg

So I milled down those edges on the caliper so I could run a much better bracket.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/6955279578_3bcb349cd4_b-1.jpg

And now the rev A bracket is much nicer.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/7101347695_947f53317a_b-1.jpg

And an on car teaser. The calipers are mounted just slightly lower than vertical on the car. I tried to get as close to vertical as possible but ran into some restrictions on my spindles.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/7105046405_69b5289db9_b-1.jpg

[Ron.in.SoCal]

^ that is slick man. Looks like factory Brembo GT all the way, prob $4k+ cheaper!

[Kybosh]

Nice work JP, that looks really nice and I bet it feels great too.

[Yenko boy]

Wow this is awesome info thanks guys. Quick question whats the difference between CTS-V Calipers/Rotors and New Zl1 Calipers/Rotors?

[jpgolf14]

They superficially seem to be the same. There is something different though. Because when you install CTS-V calipers directly onto a 5th gen Camaro, the caliper is slightly cockeyed. However the ZL1 does not have this issue. So either the mounting lugs are slightly different on the caliper or the spindle has been modified. We have been discussing this on Camaro5. See link below. Someone is trying to check with Brembo to see if the caliper is the same.

Start with my reply #323
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71401&page=13

[Yenko boy]

Nice.... Also looks like Zl1 rotor is a 2 piece unit any ideas on weight savings?

[jpgolf14]

Nice.... Also looks like Zl1 rotor is a 2 piece unit any ideas on weight savings?

Remember the CTS-V front rotor is a pseudo 2 piece as well. They are brembo dual cast. The center hats are aluminum. The two pieces are cast together at the same time. I expect the weight difference between the V rotor and ZL1 rotor is minimal.

http://www.pixelmotion.com/customers/brembo-cadillac/

[jpgolf14]

Got the rear brackets designed and built. Seems to work pretty well. Its not a bolt on. You have to have to modify a few things on the OEM cadillac dust shield / e-brake bracket.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/6993087182_df3056a3a7_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/6993087142_9d9f3cd58e_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/7232128434_cc2057ace0_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/7232122904_f1e97019be_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/7237531342_ffd6085468_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/7237532020_7944346b8c_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/7237532788_8a3275f2fb_b-1.jpg

[Samckitt]

Hmmm, I just modified the rear flange on the Monte to use F body rear brakes. I may have to look into these. Nice job.

[wiedemab]

Nice - -I love the use of the PBR can too!

[jpgolf14]

Nice - -I love the use of the PBR can too!

You have to keep it classy. Good catch.

[GeoffP]

jpgolf14 - is that your IROC and what wheels are those if it is? Love em! :)

[jpgolf14]

jpgolf14 - is that your IROC and what wheels are those if it is? Love em! :)

Thanks man. Yes its mine. I've had it for 10 years. The wheels are HRE 560r 19x10".

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/6998310859_8e8ece2a72_b-1.jpg

[GeoffP]

Nice - are they a bolt on or did you have to use spacers? I'm also interested in your brake mod. My car already has 98-02 F-body brakes on it (which were a huge improvement) but I'm always open to better since I've been getting in to autocrossing the last couple of years.

[jpgolf14]

Nice - are they a bolt on or did you have to use spacers? I'm also interested in your brake mod. My car already has 98-02 F-body brakes on it (which were a huge improvement) but I'm always open to better since I've been getting in to autocrossing the last couple of years.

They are bolt on. HRE custom builds to suit. I did a lot of measuring to make sure I specified them correctly.

Honestly the brakes are super overkill on a 3rd gen. We are talking a car that weighs 800lbs less than the V and has much less horsepower. But I love them. I had a set of Wilwood FSL calipers on 13" C4 HD rotors for a few years that held up great on the road course. But they just looked to small behind the new 19" wheels. The nice thing about the Wilwoods is all the parts are inexpensive.

[csouth]

Damn those are some nice rear brackets!

[jpgolf14]

Front brackets are here and are looking good.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/7306501348_7152a07cf8_b-1.jpg

[DarkoNova]

Those rear calipers look puny compared to the fronts lol.

Still, looks freakin awesome.

[mario65]

Is the plan to make and sell a kit for the ctsv brakes front and rear?

[jpgolf14]

Is the plan to make and sell a kit for the ctsv brakes front and rear?

I had not really thought about it. I'm not sure it would be terribly marketable. My front brackets will only work on third gen Camaro/Firebird spindles. The rears will work on any 10/12 bolt flange, and easily adaptable to any other flange. However they still require some hacking to the CTS-V dust shield.

I would be happy to provide the cad files to anyone that wants them. I could probably even provide finished brackets, but would need to check with my machinist. They would not be cheap. I am not interested in providing complete kits. I don't have that kind of free time. The brackets are the magic though, the rest is easy.

[Wildcardfox]

Looks good. I just installed a set on my '99 mustang. Gotta love brembos.

[jpgolf14]

Looks good. I just installed a set on my '99 mustang. Gotta love brembos.

Oh yeah? Got some pictures?

[mxer898]

can you or has anyone mounted them to a 1st gen firebird/camaro spindle?

[jpgolf14]

can you or has anyone mounted them to a 1st gen firebird/camaro spindle?

I have not seen it done. But looking at a first gen spindle, it looks like it would be pretty easy. It would be similar to the bracket in the link below. Except the top hole would have to be moved slightly and you would need recontour the areas around the caliper holes. If anyone has a schematic of the 1st gen spindle, I could design a bracket quite easily.

http://flynbye.com/catalog/i220.html

[Wildcardfox]

Oh yeah? Got some pictures?

Sure.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/d769cab6-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/9319c201-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/71dea4d7-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7f461c65-1.jpg

[jpgolf14]

That looks awesome. How do you like them?

[Wildcardfox]

That looks awesome. How do you like them?

Just put them on- got them bleed yesterday. It's been a hellish 4 days of fabrications starting Thursday with building the bracket and painting them, to Friday installing. Bleed them yesterday. It's all done, but through the holes in the rotor hat I noticed that the bolts that I chose are too short, so I'll be swapping that today.

I expect them to be like all of my other brembos- superb. This car has brembo f40/f50 old cts-v front calipers and rotors on the rear and my other car has 8 piston brembos with 15" rotors in the front and 4 pistons calipers with 14.4" rotors in the rear. I installed the 6 pistons as a replacement to the z06 front brake kit that I had been running. Difference between the pbr caliper and the brembos in design is immense. The pbr had the pad pins, individual pads, and caliper springs that were in the vacinity of the rotor so that they could be damaged. For the Brembo, all of the hardware is at the top where it could never be damaged... The brembo is a superior design compared to the z06 caliper.

rear calipers

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/6fb0bd5c-1.jpg

The Z06's I was replacing

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/KGrHqNpcE9eL6PWlBPpboO9860_58-1.jpg

New Brembo 6

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/22666302-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/f66f0e75-1.jpg


And you've gotta love the 370mm x 34 mm rotors- all you see is rotor. I've been drooling over these calipers since they debuted, so I was very happy to get my hands on them.

[Chevelle598bb]

I have a set for my Chevelle. I am waiting on a set of l&h spindles. The rears will be mounted to my m9 which uses Torino style big ford ends.

[Wildcardfox]

You'll love them. Driving on them today. They are superb.

[mario65]

I have had a ctsv with these for 70k miles and I have never been in a car that could out stop the V. I would love them on every car I have.

[jpgolf14]

You guys are getting me very excited to try mine. Should stop pretty well considering my Camaro is 800lbs lighter than the V.

[jpgolf14]

I designed up a bracket to fit these brakes to a big Ford rear flange for another third genner. But I am short a few key dimensions. Does anyone have dimensions for:

big ford axle retention plate?
differential flange to axle brake rotor mounting surface offset?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7163727347_3a25d699da_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7348937874_07a5f2a746_b-1.jpg

[Chevelle598bb]

Is it the new big bearing Torino end? If it is then it is a 2.5 axle offset (flange to rotor mount). Here is a link for the dimensions for the flange bolt pattern. Do you mind sharing the cad file for this housing end when you are finished. Thanks Jason.

http://www.moserengineering.com/catalog/product/gallery/id/461/image/600/

[Chevelle598bb]

Also would the brake bracket double as the axle retainer or would you use a spacer and the retainer bolt outside of the brake bracket?

[jpgolf14]

Is it the new big bearing Torino end? If it is then it is a 2.5 axle offset (flange to rotor mount). Here is a link for the dimensions for the flange bolt pattern. Do you mind sharing the cad file for this housing end when you are finished. Thanks Jason.

http://www.moserengineering.com/catalog/product/gallery/id/461/image/600/

Yes that is the correct flange. I have seen both 2.36" and 2.5" mentioned for the offset.

I have the dimensions in the Moser link. What I need is a few others.

Now perhaps is a good time for me to learn more about the Big Ford flange. If you look earlier in this thread, my 10/12 bolt bracket does NOT retain the axle. It acts as a spacer for the retainer plate to sit on top of. The 10/12 bolt requires a 1/4" thick bracket to properly space out the axle retention flange. So my 10/12 bolt bracket is 1/4" thick in the area which the retention plate sits. The question is, does the ford require a spacer as well? how thick? I really don't know squat about the ford differentials.

And yes I am happy to share the CAD file when finished.

[Chevelle598bb]

The Torino end is 2.5 while the old big bearing is 2.36. I haven't seen a Torino end with the old big bearing offset.

What other dimensions do you need? I would be happy to bust a wheel off and take measurements and pictures.

On the Torino housing end the bearing is pressed onto the axle. The bearing is a sealed bearing and the axle seal is inside the housing and not outside of the bearing like the gm 10 bolt. The housing end mounting surface is flat. When the axle is slid into the housing all the way the outside surface of the bearing is raised from the housing end by approximately 1/8 inch or so (I can get and accurate measurement). Then the retainer is bolted to the housing end and bends a bit around the outside of the bearing to lock it into place. So the brake bracket can be made so it acts as the axle retainer plate or if not and you use the standard axle retainer plate there would need to be a spacer made for between the outside of the bearing to the outside surface of the brake bracket. So the spacer would be as thick as the caliper bracket. I think the second route would be easier to fabricate and you would be able to add the brake brackets without pulling the bearings off the axles.

[jpgolf14]

On the Torino housing end the bearing is pressed onto the axle. The bearing is a sealed bearing and the axle seal is inside the housing and not outside of the bearing like the gm 10 bolt. The housing end mounting surface is flat. When the axle is slid into the housing all the way the outside surface of the bearing is raised from the housing end by approximately 1/8 inch or so (I can get and accurate measurement). Then the retainer is bolted to the housing end and bends a bit around the outside of the bearing to lock it into place. So the brake bracket can be made so it acts as the axle retainer plate or if not and you use the standard axle retainer plate there would need to be a spacer made for between the outside of the bearing to the outside surface of the brake bracket. So the spacer would be as thick as the caliper bracket. I think the second route would be easier to fabricate and you would be able to add the brake brackets without pulling the bearings off the axles.

This is a picture of flynbye performance's Big Ford bracket. It looks like this particular bracket design acts as the bearing retainer? I'm not sure I like the idea of a bearing retainer with a slot in it for installation.

I don't think I quite follow you regarding your spacer idea. Can you try again?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/SmallFordweb1-1.jpg

[Simmo]

If a vendor/manufacturer is listening:-

+1 for a Torino style bracket to suit CTSV rear caliper/park brake.

[Chevelle598bb]

Below is an example of the spacer. The brakes are from a 2000 ford exploder and are a direct bolt on for the Torino housing ends. The ID of the caliper bracket is larger than the bearing meaning you do not have to place the bracket onto the axle before you press the bearing on. Now the caliper bracket is also much thicker than the stock drum brake backing plate. So to use the axle retainer plates the distance between the outside surface of the bearing and the new axle retainer plate mounting surface (outside of caliper bracket must be made up. The spacer in the picture is from currie and the OD is just smaller than the brake bracket. The ID of the spacer is the same size as the retainer surface on the bearing. The spacer is .200 thick due to the caliper bracket being right at .230 thick.

[jpgolf14]

Below is an example of the spacer. The brakes are from a 2000 ford exploder and are a direct bolt on for the Torino housing ends. The ID of the caliper bracket is larger than the bearing meaning you do not have to place the bracket onto the axle before you press the bearing on. Now the caliper bracket is also much thicker than the stock drum brake backing plate. So to use the axle retainer plates the distance between the outside surface of the bearing and the new axle retainer plate mounting surface (outside of caliper bracket must be made up. The spacer in the picture is from currie and the OD is just smaller than the brake bracket. The ID of the spacer is the same size as the retainer surface on the bearing. The spacer is .200 thick due to the caliper bracket being right at .230 thick.

Ok I think I understand what you are saying now. So you are saying to create a spacer (basically the shape of a ring) that is roughly the same thickness as the caliper bracket. The spacer goes on the axle before the bearing is pressed on. The axle stack up from out to in would be axle retainer plate then the spacer then the bearing. So when the axle retainer plate is tightened, its pushes on the spacer which then pushes on the bearing.

So what I need is the dimension of the axle retainer plate. The outside dimension. Like overall height and overall width. That way I can make sure the pocket in my bracket is large enough for the retainer plate to fit in.

If I understand everything correctly, my concept bracket shown a few posts ago would work with the addition of the spacer ring.

[Chevelle598bb]

That is exactly it. I will bust a retainer off tommorrow and get some measurements.

I think your earlier drawing would work great after adding the spacer and retainer dimensions.

[BrianP]

Will a 18 inch rim fit over the CTS-V front Rotor?

[jpgolf14]

Will a 18 inch rim fit over the CTS-V front Rotor?

They should. Here is a picture of my 19's. Easily more than 1/2" of clearance. I have a spare 18" BMW wheel laying around. I will try that out later. You do have to be careful with caliper to spoke clearance.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/6929435322_157542e377_b-1.jpg

[Black93GT]

Got the rear brackets designed and built. Seems to work pretty well. Its not a bolt on. You have to have to modify a few things on the OEM cadillac dust shield / e-brake bracket.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/7232128434_cc2057ace0_b-1.jpg


Man thats what i'm hoping to do on my set up. would you mind shooting me the CAD files on those.

[jpgolf14]

That is exactly it. I will bust a retainer off tommorrow and get some measurements.

I think your earlier drawing would work great after adding the spacer and retainer dimensions.

Cool. Grab as many dimensions as you can. I'm not sure if the shape is exactly like this one. But this is what I would need for that shape. A picture would also be great.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7169823567_57b6ff5a22_o-1.png

[jpgolf14]

Will a 18 inch rim fit over the CTS-V front Rotor?

I stand corrected they do not fit inside my 18" BMW wheels. The BMW wheel is shaped differently than my HRE 19". An 18" HRE would fit. So I will conclude by saying it depends on the wheel. They do look awesome squeezed inside an 18" though.

Notice the "ears" of the caliper are touching the wheel.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7169843327_bed6bb51c1_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7169843879_84cd87ddc3_b-1.jpg

[Chevelle598bb]

I didn't get to take measurements today. I will take them tommorrow or Monday.

[Black93GT]

those things look brutal inside the 18's. Man... 18's are what i'm hoping to squeeze them in too.

[DarkoNova]

I want these just for the hell of it. Overkill or not, they just look bitchin!

[Black93GT]

Not sure exactly what measurements you're looking for but here's what I could find for the different housing ends on strange's website.

60536

[jpgolf14]

Not sure exactly what measurements you're looking for but here's what I could find for the different housing ends on strange's website.



Yup I have those already. Need to know the dimensions of the axle retention plate.

[Chevelle598bb]

Here are some pictures with dimensions from my ford 9 inch. Keep in mind that it is a Moser M9 fabricated housing with Torino (new style big ford) housing ends. The retainers I have are also from Moser. The axle offset for a standard ford torino housing end is 2.5 inches. Mine measures at 2.541 which is probably due to Moser's thicker axle flange. If there is other measurements needed, let me know.

[Chevelle598bb]

If anyone needs these pics emailed just pm me your email address.

[jpgolf14]

Here is the latest version. It looks like from your measurements that the retainer bolts are 3/8"???

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7362270798_e6117ce08a_b-1.jpg

I also wanted to make sure it is very clear what other modifications are required. The OEM CTS-V dust shield / ebrake mount has a circular hole in it to mate with the CTS-V circular rear flange. Since my 10/12 bolt flange is trapezoidal, I had to trim out the dust shield to the proper size and shape. In the picture below you can see I have already trimmed the black sheet metal dust shield. The blue circle is roughly what the hole looked like before I enlarged it. To use this on the Ford will require a similar amount of trimming. Now, recall I had to rotate the two cable pull bracket bolt holes clockwise about 20 degrees because of how wide the Big Ford flange is. This means that more metal will have to be removed from the metal chunk in between those two holes so it clears the corner of the axle retention flange. This is approximated by the yellow rectangle.

The two yellow holes had to be added and used to hold the dust shield to the bracket. The original holes (seen in the picture) could not be used because they are to close to the center pocket.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7362311150_f411876791_b-1.jpg

[CarlC]

Wow. You guys are really treading on new ground here. I very much like the grass-roots approach to adapting the modern supercar parts. I may need to investigate this a bit further for future upgrades. Thanks for the hard work.

[Chevelle598bb]

Thanks for the pics jp. I think the backing plate will work out fine with the Torino end. I think I am going to make the caliper bracket retain the bearing in the housing. I can just make a relief cut in the bracket with a boring bit on my mill. That way I won't have a spacer to machine or have a retainer to worry about. Just makes for less parts. Plus I think it will help with pad knock back issues that the ford housing ends deal with.

[jpgolf14]

Thanks for the pics jp. I think the backing plate will work out fine with the Torino end. I think I am going to make the caliper bracket retain the bearing in the housing. I can just make a relief cut in the bracket with a boring bit on my mill. That way I won't have a spacer to machine or have a retainer to worry about. Just makes for less parts. Plus I think it will help with pad knock back issues that the ford housing ends deal with.

Are you saying you will shape it like your retainer plate above, in other words it will have a cutout to allow the bracket to slide over the axle after the axle is installed in the housing. Sort of like these brackets pictured below? I wonder how wide the cutout needs to be?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/SmallFordweb1-1.jpg

[Chevelle598bb]

Yes similar to that in the way they retain the bearings in the housing end. I would not machine a cutout into the bracket. I would just bore the hole smaller than the bearing and machine a relief cut into the bracket for the bearing to sit. So I would press off the axle bearing and place the backing plate and caliper bracket. Then the axle bearing would be pressed back on. Just makes things easier.

[Chevelle598bb]

The ID of the hole in the caliper bracket would be 2.685. The ID of the relief cut would be 3.100. The depth of the relief cut would be around .120. I can cut the relief on my mill pretty easily.

Bearing OD 3.149
Bearing height out of housing end .125

[jpgolf14]

Hey guys, I am working on the final shimming of my front calipers to ensure they are dead square and centered with the rotor. I am using 0.1 and 0.2mm shims. What I have noticed is the gap between the pads and rotor is larger at the top of the pad than the bottom. Has anyone else that has used these calipers noticed this? Its like the pistons are not exactly perpendicular to the rotor. I'm sure they are fine, but I'm just trying to do everything as close to perfect as possible.

[Chevelle598bb]

I haven't received my new spindles yet so I haven't got to mock up the fronts.

[jpgolf14]

Sorry guys I have not taken a look at the revised bracket in a little while. I have been busy but will take a look at it soon.

Now, regarding my front brakes. I have successfully shimmed my calipers such that the rotor is centered on the pads. However when I do that, I noticed that it looks like the rotor is not centered in the caliper casting. See pictures below.

What I suspect is going on is that the caliper pistons are fully retracted. Probably retracted enough that the dust boots are sticking up further than the pistons. So right now the pads are resting on the dust boots rather than the pistons. I would not be surprised if the dust boots sit slightly different from one to another. Thus causing the rotor to not be centered on the caliper but centered on the pads. I imagine the rotor SHOULD be centered on the caliper. I can't think of a reason they would be designed to have different gaps.

In the pictures below the caliper is on the bottom. You can just see the tapered edge of the pad at the top. The area of interested is the gap in the center that is in focus.

Hopefully the way I described it is understandable. Let me know what you guys think. And to the folks who have installed these on cars, did you notice this on yours?

Inboard. Gap between casting and rotor is about 1/32".
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7405854160_6141156154_b-1.jpg

Outboard. Gap between casting and rotor is about 3/32"
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7405853692_20c83d404e_b-1.jpg

[Chevelle598bb]

I assume that the caliper body should be centered over the rotor. That is how the aftermarket set ups I have used were. I am not sure on the cts brembos bit that is how I am going to mock mine up.

[jpgolf14]

The ID of the hole in the caliper bracket would be 2.685. The ID of the relief cut would be 3.100. The depth of the relief cut would be around .120. I can cut the relief on my mill pretty easily.

Bearing OD 3.149
Bearing height out of housing end .125

Ok, I had some time to work on this a bit. Using the bracket to retain the bearing really helps simplify the design. With this design you can use the three holes already in the dust shield, no additional holes required. However the Ford has a much lower axle offset than my Dana. So I had to make the mounting lugs for the caliper further back. This will add to the cost of machining unfortunatly. Let me know what you think.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7437939940_88c1030fe9_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7437939808_7e925ca776_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7437939858_0c99e77683_b-1.jpg

And the back side of the bracket.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7437940014_c816544026_b-1.jpg

[Chevelle598bb]

I think it looks nice and functional. I think I could machine it pretty easy on my mill.

[jpgolf14]

I think it looks nice and functional. I think I could machine it pretty easy on my mill.

Very cool, I am jealous of your mill. Is it a CNC mill? What do you need from me?

[Chevelle598bb]

Don't be jealous. It is a small cheap made in china mill that I have tweaked a bit to make it work well. As long as I pay close attention to my set up I get pretty good results with machining.

I have a buddy with an awesome Cnc plasma that would have worked great it the whole bracket was flat. Oh well. I can make it with the mill.
The cad drawings you have made already are nice. I just need the dimensions added to them. Can you make a file with the wheel side of the bracket to scale with dimensions? That would work great since I can use the Cnc plasma.

[jpgolf14]

I have a buddy with an awesome Cnc plasma that would have worked great it the whole bracket was flat. Oh well. I can make it with the mill.
The cad drawings you have made already are nice. I just need the dimensions added to them. Can you make a file with the wheel side of the bracket to scale with dimensions? That would work great since I can use the Cnc plasma.

Very cool. Yeah was able to keep my rear bracket flat since my axle offset is ~3". The 1/2" less of yours kills the bearing thickness of the caliper holes. So I had to bend the bracket back to increase the caliper hole thickness.

I need to check a few dimensions, but I should have a good dimensioned drawing tomorrow or wednesday.

BTW, is your buddy interested in side jobs with his CNC plasma?

[Chevelle598bb]

Yeah I figured the bracket would have to move back past the flange some. Oh well.

Hey stays pretty busy. He builds custom iron gates and gate opener systems. He uses the plasma to make name plates, designs and top pieces for fence poles. What did you have in mind?

[jpgolf14]

Yeah I figured the bracket would have to move back past the flange some. Oh well.

Hey stays pretty busy. He builds custom iron gates and gate opener systems. He uses the plasma to make name plates, designs and top pieces for fence poles. What did you have in mind?

I wouldn't mind having a version 2 of my front brackets made. Just simple 3/8" plate steel. It would be a good bit easier and cheaper on a waterjet than a CNC mill.

Plus I always have odd jobs.

[joshuaweber]

could you make the rear plate out of two pieces? If so you could water jet the two halfs and not Mill the billet part? worst case rosette with the two halfs and sand flush? can you send me the files? I can also laser cut the .375" rev 2 from A36 for you also if you send me the solid, dwg and dxf files. Josh

[jpgolf14]

could you make the rear plate out of two pieces? If so you could water jet the two halfs and not Mill the billet part? worst case rosette with the two halfs and sand flush? can you send me the files? I can also laser cut the .375" rev 2 from A36 for you also if you send me the solid, dwg and dxf files. Josh

Yup that sounds good. It sure would make it a lot cheaper to build. I'll work on the model and see how they look The only problem is the surface for the caliper to sit is not even with the axle flange. They are about 0.1" off. So you would either have to mill 0.1" off or use shims between the bracket and caliper. Know what I mean?

This is for a 2.5" offset Big Ford?

[uraceulose]

Forget the centering of the "pads"..you were on the right track. Center up the caliper/basket itself and then when you press the brake pedal the first few times, the pistons will work their way out and the pads will take care of themselves.
Donnie

edit: btw, this thread is awesome. thank you

[jpgolf14]

Alright I worked up a 2pc design. It looks pretty decent to me. Weighs about 2lbs. And needs minimal amount of machine work on top of a waterjet cutting it out. I need to tune the thicknesses a little. Will probably drop the caliper portion down to 0.5" so no machine work is necessary. You will need a 0.12" shim between the bracket and caliper. The other piece does need to be a specific size in order to locate the e-brake properly. Another option would be to step it down and use shims.

I should have some dimensioned drawings tonight or tomorrow.

The nice thing about the 2pc design is that it is modular. If I was going to sell these (which I'm not). I could use common parts. All 2pc brackets could use the same caliper section.

What I need help with yet. I need to know the outer dimensions of the Big Ford flange. Like what is the overall height and overall width. The more dimensions the better. I want to check interferences.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7469443750_ee7aba3bff_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7469443850_24db46371b_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7469443892_3dcdaf8864_b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/7469443940_d734407506_b-1.jpg

[Chevelle598bb]

The two piece brackets look very nice. It would cut down on machining considerably. Below are the overall width and height of the big ford flange. Mine is made by moser but I'm sure it is close to the factory Torino end.

Overall width - 5.000
Overall height - 3.888

[joshuaweber]

I just wanted to mention that I laser a lot of a36 plate at work. it cuts nice up to 3/8 it will cut over up to 1/2", I think, but without a few samples to fine tune the tip you need to clean up the material. Another thing is The a36 plate nominal and acutal thickness is close but 1/8" usually comes in .120, all depends on the steel mill. So now my question: you are within 1/32" ( 0.03125") would .010+/- make a huge difference? If not, I can laser your two piece design and send it to you for testing? we have two trump 3030 lasers and they are awesome!

[CrazyLarrys68]

Hey Guys's and Gals, It's Larry. I started this thread and I'm amazed at the response. I came across a super deal the other day and went in a slightly diff direction. I bought a full set of cal's off a 11' SS. They only have 800 miles on them. What I'm hoping to do is to find a Wilwood hat that duplicates the factory disc, but allows me to run a 14' dia. rotor. What offset for the hat is best for a factory hub. I'm able to run either Disc or Drum spindle/hub set up, as I have both. Which is best? Anyone tried this yet. If anyone has part #'s, please let me know. Many thanks again to all of you.

[jpgolf14]

Hey Guys's and Gals, It's Larry. I started this thread and I'm amazed at the response. I came across a super deal the other day and went in a slightly diff direction. I bought a full set of cal's off a 11' SS. They only have 800 miles on them. What I'm hoping to do is to find a Wilwood hat that duplicates the factory disc, but allows me to run a 14' dia. rotor. What offset for the hat is best for a factory hub. I'm able to run either Disc or Drum spindle/hub set up, as I have both. Which is best? Anyone tried this yet. If anyone has part #'s, please let me know. Many thanks again to all of you.

Hey Larry, hope you don't mind me derailing your thread. :spank2:

If I understand you correctly you are looking to retain the first gen Camaro rotor offset??

I would tailor the rotor based on factors other than just keeping the offset the same. Any reason to keep them the same?

At the beginning of the thread you mentioned you would buy wheels later that fit the brakes, is that still the plan?

The '10+ SS calipers require a lot of caliper to spoke clearance, which may limit your wheel options. The larger the rotor offset, the less clearance would be need.

I did a little bit of research and it looks like the OEM disc rotor is 4.08" tall. Figure 0.3" of that is the hat thickness and 1.0" of that is the rotor thickness, that leaves you with a hat offset of 2.78" I can't find anything near that much in the Wilwood catalog. I see 2" offset, part number 170-1827. I also looked at what Wilwood uses in their 1st gen kits. They use a 1.75" offset hat with a 14x1.25" rotor. Hat part number 170-7467. I would probably go that direction unless you really have a reason no to.

There is also a 3" offset Wilwood 170-3695 or All Star performance ALL42120 hat. But it really looks weird being that large.

[jpgolf14]

I just wanted to mention that I laser a lot of a36 plate at work. it cuts nice up to 3/8 it will cut over up to 1/2", I think, but without a few samples to fine tune the tip you need to clean up the material. Another thing is The a36 plate nominal and acutal thickness is close but 1/8" usually comes in .120, all depends on the steel mill. So now my question: you are within 1/32" ( 0.03125") would .010+/- make a huge difference? If not, I can laser your two piece design and send it to you for testing? we have two trump 3030 lasers and they are awesome!

Josh, that is a great offer. Depending on which 2pc design you are talking about, I am starting to get them all mixed up in my head, the material is very thick. The two pieces on the big ford bracket are 0.6" and 1.2". They can be made from aluminum. Can you water jet aluminum, how thick?

Also, regarding my rev 2 front bracket, I will send you a private message.

[CrazyLarrys68]

Thanks JP! I don't think your derailing at all. We all need one another to learn from. Your and my figures are about the same. It's all a matter of my financial situation. I don't need to buy a hub if I have a hub. I really don't want to run a sealed hub setup. Just figured if I can get it close to factory, my wheel offset won't be so bad.

[jpgolf14]

Thanks JP! I don't think your derailing at all. We all need one another to learn from. Your and my figures are about the same. It's all a matter of my financial situation. I don't need to buy a hub if I have a hub. I really don't want to run a sealed hub setup. Just figured if I can get it close to factory, my wheel offset won't be so bad.

Larry,

Unless I am missing something, you should be able to run the 1.75" offset hat with your current hubs. The only thing it may effect is caliper to spoke clearance. Even so, 1.75" is a large hat offset, I doubt you'll have little trouble with the caliper to spoke clearance.

[jpgolf14]

The two piece brackets look very nice. It would cut down on machining considerably. Below are the overall width and height of the big ford flange. Mine is made by moser but I'm sure it is close to the factory Torino end.

Overall width - 5.000
Overall height - 3.888

Hmmm.. That seems awfully large for the bolt spacing. I know my GM flange is not much larger than the hole spacing. I have added a 5x3.888" rectangle to the model so you can see the potential interferences.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/7650811154_d42fdee23d_b-1.jpg

Next I contoured it more like the actual shape of the big ford flange. Looks like I will need to redo the outer bracket a little, but no big deal there. More importantly, the flange seems to get in the way of the two e-brake cable bracket holes on the left side. So it seems like big ford users would have to grind down a bit of the flange in those places. Not sure if that is something you guys are willing to do?

The other option would be to move those two holes to the top or bottom of the bracket where there is more flange clearance. The problem with doing this is it may make e-brake cable routing a bit more difficult (on the other hand it may be easier), and it may require further modifications to the OEM CTS-V e-brake backing plate.

Let me know what you think.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/7650811276_4f0c6fb15b_b-1.jpg

[Chevelle598bb]

The two piece brackets look very nice. It would cut down on machining considerably. Below are the overall width and height of the big ford flange. Mine is made by moser but I'm sure it is close to the factory Torino end.

Overall width - 5.000
Overall height - 3.888

Hmmm.. That seems awfully large for the bolt spacing. I know my GM flange is not much larger than the hole spacing. I have added a 5x3.888" rectangle to the model so you can see the potential interferences.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/7650811154_d42fdee23d_b-1.jpg

Next I contoured it more like the actual shape of the big ford flange. Looks like I will need to redo the outer bracket a little, but no big deal there. More importantly, the flange seems to get in the way of the two e-brake cable bracket holes on the left side. So it seems like big ford users would have to grind down a bit of the flange in those places. Not sure if that is something you guys are willing to do?

The other option would be to move those two holes to the top or bottom of the bracket where there is more flange clearance. The problem with doing this is it may make e-brake cable routing a bit more difficult (on the other hand it may be easier), and it may require further modifications to the OEM CTS-V e-brake backing plate.

Let me know what you think.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/7650811276_4f0c6fb15b_b-1.jpg

5.000 is the overall width of the flange on the horizontal axis measured directly in the middle of the flange. 3.888 is the overall height of the flange on the vertical axis measured in the middle of the flange. The flange tapers towards the corners to make a oval shape. The caliper bracket doesn't have to directly mimic the shape of the flange. The flange is also thick enough towards the sides that the caliper bracket could be used as a Guide if there needed to be holes drilled in it for the e brake bracket.

[jpgolf14]

5.000 is the overall width of the flange on the horizontal axis measured directly in the middle of the flange. 3.888 is the overall height of the flange on the vertical axis measured in the middle of the flange. The flange tapers towards the corners to make a oval shape. The caliper bracket doesn't have to directly mimic the shape of the flange. The flange is also thick enough towards the sides that the caliper bracket could be used as a Guide if there needed to be holes drilled in it for the e brake bracket.

Sure, that is how I modeled the outline in the second picture. The bigger problem I later realized is the brake cable bracket has to set flush with the back of the bracket. That looks pretty tough right now, short of a lot of grinding of the flange. See picture. Thoughts?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/7237532020_36034adfc5_h-1.jpg

[jpgolf14]

And here is the bracket that goes over those studs. #3 in the drawing.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/6925872774_5ddbc9c962_b-1.jpg

[85coupe50]

you set the left side one on the right and vice versa? The angle looks like it bends towardtthe center section and the cable comes in from that side to align up with the hook on the E-brake. Or if the bracket was reverse of what it is now with the bend and the hole toward the backing plate/rotor the alignment would be OK and the E-brake cable could work as intended.

I would like to see a bracket as well as where to source the parts for the e-brake as I have a set of 2012 Camaro SS brakes front and rear and would like to install on my 2007 Mustang. The fronts may bolt right in but would also like to have the SS rear brakes too.

[85coupe50]

I guess something like this.

15 seconds with paint... Best I could do.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/08/RearCTSVeBrake-1.jpg

This is an 04 and the bracket in question points to the interior of the car. best shot I could find of it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/08/KGrHqJhE7S82Jb6BQCEmJfu4g60_1-1.jpg

[jpgolf14]

you set the left side one on the right and vice versa? The angle looks like it bends towardtthe center section and the cable comes in from that side to align up with the hook on the E-brake. Or if the bracket was reverse of what it is now with the bend and the hole toward the backing plate/rotor the alignment would be OK and the E-brake cable could work as intended.

I would like to see a bracket as well as where to source the parts for the e-brake as I have a set of 2012 Camaro SS brakes front and rear and would like to install on my 2007 Mustang. The fronts may bolt right in but would also like to have the SS rear brakes too.

No. I am using everything the way GM intended. Left on the left, right on the right. Calipers are forward of axle center and e-brake pull is aft of axle center. You drawing of the bracket on my picture looks pretty good to me. I will take another picture next week (when I get my diff back) with the bracket installed.

I have not figured out my e-brake cable situation yet. But I imagine is should look pretty close to the OEM CTS-V setup. Unfortunately I am having trouble with part numbers and pictures of the cable. I appreciate any help in this area.

Also, my brackets are ampidexterous. You can install the right on the left.

[85coupe50]

Are the specs on the rear CTSV rotor, 14.2" like the SS Camaro?

[85coupe50]

This is as good as I can find...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/08/0911_CTSV_Ebrake_03-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/08/0911_CTSV_Ebrake_02-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/08/0911_CTSV_Ebrake_01-1.jpg

[jpgolf14]

Thanks for the pictures, that help a lot.

Yes the rear rotors are the same as the SS, 365mm or 14.38".

[85coupe50]

Thanks for the pictures, that help a lot.

Yes the rear rotors are the same as the SS, 365mm or 14.38".

Thanks for the info... I will be getting the rear parking brake stuff too from a wrecked SS... Nice...

How much for a set of these brackets?

[jpgolf14]

Thanks for the info... I will be getting the rear parking brake stuff too from a wrecked SS... Nice...

How much for a set of these brackets?

Here are the part numbers:

Part Numbers:

Front
25912477 - caliper
25912967 - caliper
25940447 - pads
25940448 - x2 caliper pin kit
1771105 - x2 rotor

Rear
25911138 - caliper
25911233 - caliper
89047744 - pads
1771051 - x2 rotor
???????? - x2 caliper pin kit (don't remember if these came with the calipers)

E-brake
25851190 - backing plate
25851205 - backing plate
25693149 - cable bracket
25693150 - cable bracket
25814678 - x2, shoe kit
25867413 - x2, shoe lever arm
25867414 - x2, shoe leveler
20823795 - cable
20823866 - cable equalizer
18K2087 - spring and hardware kit


I do not plan to sell these brackets, as I have no affordable machining options. What I paid for the brackets is more than most would be willing. I am happy to provide the models and drawings. What axle flange are you using?

[85coupe50]

I do not plan to sell these brackets, as I have no affordable machining options. What I paid for the brackets is more than most would be willing. I am happy to provide the models and drawings. What axle flange are you using?

It's all good... Drawings would go a long way and I can find a place to cut them.
I appreciate the parts list.

I am not sure what ends are on the rear end. I will research that and see what it is. I mean it is a straight up stock 2007 Ford Mustang 8.8 rear end.

[jpgolf14]

It's all good... Drawings would go a long way and I can find a place to cut them.
I appreciate the parts list.

I am not sure what ends are on the rear end. I will research that and see what it is. I mean it is a straight up stock 2007 Ford Mustang 8.8 rear end.

Hey Matt,

I am not a Ford guy. Maybe you can find the axle end info and let me know. If you read this whole thread there are a few issues with how wide the Big Ford flange is. I still have not heard any good ideas on how to get around the issues. I'm not sure how much modification this crowd is willing to accept.

It should be one of these, i assume:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/08/IDAxleFlange-1.gif

By the way, got my diff back. Here is the e-brake cable bracket installed:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/08/7842882602_0724645044_h-1.jpg

John

[The GMR]

that is a good idea john, it almost looks like it was meant to be there in the first place! good job!

[jpgolf14]

Thanks Jason,

The cool thing is these calipers look nice and are fairly inexpensive. On the downside they are heavy and are cast aluminum. But I still think I will like them. To be honest, my old Wilwood FSL 13" setup was adequate for the type of track use I was giving it. But they just didn't look right behind the 19" wheels. How silly.

[85coupe50]

John,
I am going to figure out what the axle end is and then I can go from there... That setup looks good on the rear end.

[jpgolf14]

Hi again folks,

I have a local shop that I do a lot of business with that is modifying a 2011 CTS-V coupe to be a track only car. They are upgrading the brakes front and rear. The car has only 6000 miles on it. They are looking to sell the stock brakes for $1100 front and rear. According to my cost matrix, the best prices I can find online for all this stuff is $2209. I think $1100 is a great price.

If anyone is interesting in buying them, please let me know.

John
[email protected]

[qnitro]

send you an email about pics please

[frankv11]

Sent you an email John
Hell of a thread , nice work

[jgpclone]

Here are the part numbers:

Part Numbers:

Front
25912477 - caliper
25912967 - caliper
25940447 - pads
25940448 - x2 caliper pin kit
1771105 - x2 rotor

Rear
25911138 - caliper
25911233 - caliper
89047744 - pads
1771051 - x2 rotor
???????? - x2 caliper pin kit (don't remember if these came with the calipers)

E-brake
25851190 - backing plate
25851205 - backing plate
25693149 - cable bracket
25693150 - cable bracket
25814678 - x2, shoe kit
25867413 - x2, shoe lever arm
25867414 - x2, shoe leveler
20823795 - cable
20823866 - cable equalizer
18K2087 - spring and hardware kit


I do not plan to sell these brackets, as I have no affordable machining options. What I paid for the brackets is more than most would be willing. I am happy to provide the models and drawings. What axle flange are you using?

could u pm me a price for a bracket drawing
that will work on a dse ford 9" thanx john

[jpgolf14]

could u pm me a price for a bracket drawing
that will work on a dse ford 9" thanx john

Based on the discussions above, I don't have an ideal design that works well with the big ford flange. Stuff just seems to get in the way.

[SShep71]

This is a great thread, it is giving me some ideas for routes to go other than the zo6 calipers front and rear. Can you send me the .dwg or .dxf file for the GM 10/12 bolt bracket. Also how much did the parts cost all together? I am trying to determine if I would be better off dropping the 2500.00 for ZO6 ft/bk with e brake or if I should invest some thought into this. Any solutions for mounting the fronts to an ATS corvette style A body spindle?

[BrianP]

Amazon.com has the front calipers in yellow for $238 and $247 (as of 2/18/13):

172-2521 (http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-172-2522-Service-Front-Caliper/dp/B0055AT7VS/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_1)

172-2522 (http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-172-2522-Service-Front-Caliper/dp/B0055AT7VS/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_1)

[jpgolf14]

Amazon.com has the front calipers in yellow for $238 and $247 (as of 2/18/13):

172-2521 (http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-172-2522-Service-Front-Caliper/dp/B0055AT7VS/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_1)

172-2522 (http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-172-2522-Service-Front-Caliper/dp/B0055AT7VS/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_1)

Nice, I knew the yellow ones would come down in price at some point.

[Cdog]

This thread is awesome. Has anyone designed a Ebrake set up to work with a Ford 9 inch rear end yet? I found a thread on LS1tech where the guy converted his C5 to the CtsV 4 piston brembos. Will this conversion be easier with a C5 spindle hub set up on a 69 Camaro?

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-general/2703381-cts-v-z06-brake-upgrade-on-c5-anyone-tried-yet.html

[andrewb70]

Very interesting read.

Does anyone know the piston area of the CTSV calipers?

Andrew

[jpgolf14]

Very interesting read.

Does anyone know the piston area of the CTSV calipers?

Andrew

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/03/8109775661_036d0949fe_h-1.jpg

[Cdog]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/03/8109775661_036d0949fe_h-1.jpg

Can you explain how the CTSV calipers compare to us laymen?

[jpgolf14]

Can you explain how the CTSV calipers compare to us laymen?

Basically the chart shows that the piston area is roughly the same as all the other newer high performance GM stuff.

The older GM stuff used larger piston areas.

What you prefer will depend on how you like your pedal feel. As shows in the last two columns on the chart.

[Cdog]

Basically the chart shows that the piston area is roughly the same as all the other newer high performance GM stuff.

The older GM stuff used larger piston areas.

What you prefer will depend on how you like your pedal feel. As shows in the last two columns on the chart.

I really like the touchy brakes on my wife’s Audi Q7. How would you describe that kind of brake system?

[andrewb70]

I really like the touchy brakes on my wife’s Audi Q7. How would you describe that kind of brake system?

Overboosted? LOL

Andrew

[jpgolf14]

I really like the touchy brakes on my wife’s Audi Q7. How would you describe that kind of brake system?

It really depends what you mean by touchy?

Short pedal?
Low effort pedal?
both?

If you can find some details on the system we can figure it out.
Master cylinder size?
Caliper piston size?
Rotor diameter
pneumatic or hydraulic booster?

[Cdog]

It really depends what you mean by touchy?

Short pedal?
Low effort pedal?
both?

If you can find some details on the system we can figure it out.
Master cylinder size?
Caliper piston size?
Rotor diameter
pneumatic or hydraulic booster?

I guess both. I grew up racing karts and later formula cars so I’m use to hopping on the brakes real hard for as little time possible. I’ll take a look at the Q7 and do some research. They use the same brakes as the Porsche Cayenne.

[86_442_kID]

This is one heck of a thread.... Great job on this thread Jp.
Seeing those front brakes just does it for me bro, I with you
Could come up with some CTS-V front brake brackets for
Us G-body car lovers.

[gmgiuffre]

Amazing work!

[Dog1]

Hey, I am working on installing 2009 ctsv brake system on my 1970 camaro . I have bought c6 spindles made for this car , I need help with the drawings and measurements for the rear adapter plates to install the brembo system on to a 1970 Torino gt 9 inch rear end . Plz any possible help at all !

[Decline]

Can one of the experts please clarify this thread..

If you gloss over it you have the impression you can bolt the newer 6 piston brembo CTS-V calipers to a first gen.. The LS1 tech link goes back to a 3rd gen trans am
As far as I can tell after conducting my own internet research this is not possible on corvette style spindles.

The closest thing I can find was a thread somewhere a guy made his own bracket and welded new holes in his C5 spindle(prbly super unsafe)
and
FlynBye just released a bracket so you can bolt up the gen5 SS 4 piston brembos to a 1st gen camaro spindle

http://www.flynbye.com/catalog/i220.html

supposedly the SS brembos and the older style CTS-v brembos are the same. The older style CTS-v 4 piston brembos are availble on ebay for like $300 a pair brand new..
Awesome, but still not compatable with corvette spindles..

From what i can tell and what Tobin said like 7 pages ago was that the "ears" on the caliper body where you bolt it to the camaro or CTS-V spindle are a lot longer than a corvette spindle.

But there is an article where chevy high performance bolts CTS-V calipers to a 3rd gen using 14"Z06 rotors instead of the 15.5"CTS-v rotors

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/brakes/1011gmhtp_cadillac_cts_v_brembo_brakes_nitto_tires _wheels/

Question 1: Are CTS-V rotors and ZR1 calipers the same?
Question 2: Could you bolt up ZR1s to a first gen with C6 spindles using Z06 rotors similarly to the article above?
If you look hard enough you can find ZR1 calipers for $500 a piece..This seems like the ultimate solution for cheap big brakes if it works..but I've never seen it done

One more cheap BBK option I have been mulling... Wilwood makes a caliper and bracket kit to bolt the W6As to corvette spindles. The Z06 track guys have used these to replace the often finnicky/fragile stock calipers

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront.aspx?itemno=140-12629-R&year=2013&make=Chevrolet&model=Corvette&option=C-6+-+Z06

Anyone feel free to chime in..

[andrewb70]

Can one of the experts please clarify this thread..

If you gloss over it you have the impression you can bolt the newer 6 piston brembo CTS-V calipers to a first gen.. The LS1 tech link goes back to a 3rd gen trans am
As far as I can tell after conducting my own internet research this is not possible on corvette style spindles.

The closest thing I can find was a thread somewhere a guy made his own bracket and welded new holes in his C5 spindle(prbly super unsafe)
and
FlynBye just released a bracket so you can bolt up the gen5 SS 4 piston brembos to a 1st gen camaro spindle

http://www.flynbye.com/catalog/i220.html

supposedly the SS brembos and the older style CTS-v brembos are the same. The older style CTS-v 4 piston brembos are availble on ebay for like $300 a pair brand new..
Awesome, but still not compatable with corvette spindles..

From what i can tell and what Tobin said like 7 pages ago was that the "ears" on the caliper body where you bolt it to the camaro or CTS-V spindle are a lot longer than a corvette spindle.

But there is an article where chevy high performance bolts CTS-V calipers to a 3rd gen using 14"Z06 rotors instead of the 15.5"CTS-v rotors

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/brakes/1011gmhtp_cadillac_cts_v_brembo_brakes_nitto_tires _wheels/

Question 1: Are CTS-V rotors and ZR1 calipers the same?
Question 2: Could you bolt up ZR1s to a first gen with C6 spindles using Z06 rotors similarly to the article above?
If you look hard enough you can find ZR1 calipers for $500 a piece..This seems like the ultimate solution for cheap big brakes if it works..but I've never seen it done

One more cheap BBK option I have been mulling... Wilwood makes a caliper and bracket kit to bolt the W6As to corvette spindles. The Z06 track guys have used these to replace the often finnicky/fragile stock calipers

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront.aspx?itemno=140-12629-R&year=2013&make=Chevrolet&model=Corvette&option=C-6+-+Z06

Anyone feel free to chime in..

I hate to say this, but I think most people overthink this stuff way too much. The truth is that most people will never push the limits of any of the various brake options. If you have a suspension that uses Corvette spindles, go with stock Corvette parts, be it c5, c6, z06...vote with your wallet. I have seen Tom Ferrington beat the snot out of his Chevelle when it has C5 brakes and he did great and had zero problems.

I chose C6 z06 brakes for my ATS spindles strictly for the bling factor. There I admitted it and I am not ashamed. If I wasn't as vain, I would have gone with a c6 or c5 package and probably would have never known the difference.

Andrew

[HellPhish89]

do not use ZO6 rotors with any fixed caliper other than the pbr it is designed for.

the 1st gen CTSV Brembos are the same casting as teh 2010 Camaro's however the mounting lugs are slightly larger. i also do not believe the 6 piston CTSV is the same caliper as the ZR1.

[HotRodV6]

If anybody has a copy of the cad files for the front and rear adapter brackets i would sure appreciate it if i could get a copy myself. Got a 97 S10 SS that im installing these same brakes on and this would def make life alot easier. lol

Thanks

[Rboisvert86]

So I have a question after reading pages of these post I have a 72 Chevy Monte Carlo the folks at kore3 make a caliper bracket to install c5/c6 z06 6 piston calipers on my car I've seen pictures of a guy who did it on a first gen Monte Carlo website I want to do a 4 piston 04-07 cts v caliper will the brembo 4 piston caliper bolt up to the c6 z06 bracket the ears or mounting holes the same distance apart I know the gen 4 camaro bolts up to them

[HotRodV6]

So I have a question after reading pages of these post I have a 72 Chevy Monte Carlo the folks at kore3 make a caliper bracket to install c5/c6 z06 6 piston calipers on my car I've seen pictures of a guy who did it on a first gen Monte Carlo website I want to do a 4 piston 04-07 cts v caliper will the brembo 4 piston caliper bolt up to the c6 z06 bracket the ears or mounting holes the same distance apart I know the gen 4 camaro bolts up to them

If you use the 14" C6 ZO6 rotors and those brackets, i believe the CTS-V 4 piston calipers should bolt right on. Also if you dont already have the calipers, i have a complete set with brand new pads and seals im looking to sell if your interested.

[Chevelle598bb]

The c5 brackets will not work with the cts-v caliper and rotor to your spindle. Flynbye performance has a bracket to mate the Camaro SS caliper and rotor ( same dimensions as cts-v 4 piston and rotor) to the first gen Camaro spindle (Chevelle, Monte Carlo, nova). Even if it would work it would be less than ideal due to the cts brake pad not matching the c6 z06 rotor well.

[69 camaro pilot]

Do you sell any of the brackets for mounting a 2010 Camaro SS caliper to the big ford torino end? im also needing to mount the Camaro Brembo 4 pistons to the front on my 69 camaro also

[Steve68]

Great info in this thread,