Wilwood 14" 140-9804D Install notes

[wmhjr]

Just wanted to post a little info based on my experience in replacing the 12.2" Dynalite brakes with the 14" Superlite 6Rs on the front of the Pontiac.

Everything arrived (after a LONG delay from Wilwood) and I inventoried all the components/parts. It was all there. I've never installed a set of radial mount brakes before, so I was interested in how it would go. For the record, I have not finished installing. I have the drivers side done and have removed the old brakes from the passenger side. Have not done any bleeding, obviously. I read through the instructions prior to starting, and then followed the instructions implicitly with one exception (concerning loctite) for the first attempt.

Bottom line up front. If you install these brakes, read the instructions and make sure you know what you're doing - and then discard the instructions. They are incorrect. Here is the issue. You need to completely mock up the assembly (minus attaching the brake lines of course), make sure it's right - including aligning the pads with them installed in the calipers - and only then take them back apart and assemble with loctite.

All of the real instructions are on page 4 and 5 of the documents. Wilwood does a good job in laying out the parts, however they start going wrong toward the bottom of page 4 in describing whether or not to use some specific washers/shims. They clearly state only to use some if you have Heidts spindles - or in one case if the mounting surface of your spindles is not flat. Wrong. You won't realize it's wrong for a bit, however. They tell you to mock up the caliper mounting bracket to insure it fits, and then to apply red loctite and torque it all down - before you've ever installed the hub or the caliper. Two problems. First, the red loctite. Just my opinion, but personally I'm not sure red is the right answer here. I am very concerned that red will result in the top bolt not being able to be removed after installation and decided to use Blue instead. Second, there is no way you should be using loctite at this point. Here is why.

After following those instructions, you then move on to assembling the hats to the rotors, packing the bearings, installing the hubs, and then test fitting the caliper to see how much you need to shim it "out" to align the outer edge of the pad with the outer edge of the rotor. Whoops - problem. You can't get the pads in the caliper because the caliper is not centered over the rotor. How do you center the caliper on the rotor you might ask? Well, by removing the caliper, rotor, and hub, and then using shims to move the caliper mounting bracket outward from the spindle. This is when you'll be really glad you didn't use red loctite. On a 1/2-20 and 5/8-18 bolt, blue is strong enough to make you curse that Wilwood didn't think about the side to side alignment. And because the 5/8-18 bolt is a small allen head, it means you don't have much meat to apply pressure with. You'll be trying to remove a 5/8-18 bolt secured with red loctite using a very small allen bit - which will very likely break off, possibly resulting in your having to drill out the bolt and then repair the spindle. Because there isn't a good reference point to measure offsets from consistently, I found that I needed to assemble/disassemble several times to get the in/out alignment just right. There is absolutely no extra room in the caliper - just barely enough room to fit the pads and the rotor in there when it's all brand new, so with non-floating brakes, that means the alignment has to be pretty much perfect.

I did call Wilwood just to make sure I wasn't being a goof, and they were not terribly helpful and didn't seem too concerned. My guess is that most who install these look at the schematics and ignore the step by step instructions. I found it very interesting that with Dynalites Wilwood is very specific about making sure the calipers are aligned, yet they make zero reference to it with the Superlites (speaking of the inboard/outboard alignment).

Has anyone else experienced this? Anyway, I suspect this same issue would hold true with the 13" rotors as well. Just wanted to save others from making the same mistakes. I'm not complaining about the quality of the brakes. They seem pretty well done. However, the instructions are significantly flawed IMHO.

[Wilwood Tech]

I had the opportunity to read your extremely well written thread and after reviewing the applicable Data Sheets, discovered that you are absolutely correct. For some reason, the 140-9804 kit's instructions are not correct. Reviewing some of other kits (for example 140-9834) that use radial mount brackets and calipers, the instructions correctly state that prior to using any Loctite: " Slide the caliper (7) in place over the studs and rotors and install the washer (9) and lock nut (8) to hold the caliper in place, Photo 7. The caliper bleed screws should be pointing up. Snug the lock nuts (8) and check that the rotor (3) is centered in the caliper (7). Add or subtract .035" shims (2) as necessary between the mount bracket and the spindle to center the caliper." Your comments have triggered an audit of all our kits to ensure that all Data Sheets are correct. I apolgize for he confusion; this case notwithstanding, we take pride in providing very comprensive and accurate assembly instructions with our kits. I will also brainstorm your other issues with the Sales Department. Thank you for bringing this up.
Ken H

[ROBS6T8]

^^^^ Thanks for the heads up on the problem. Thanks for addressing it Ken.
Maybe I will buy some Wilwood's. lol

[THE TECH]

I have had very, very similar experiences with Wilwood and their products. I do agree that their instructions do look good from far but yet when you try to apply what is written, you end up scratching your head. Not sure how their instructions can be both specific and vague at the same time. The instructions are for a specific vehicle yet it is up to the end user to shim things and figure it all out. I just don't get it. For such a high dollar product, I would not expect this kind of assembly. I feel your pain.

[wmhjr]

I have had very, very similar experiences with Wilwood and their products. I do agree that their instructions do look good from far but yet when you try to apply what is written, you end up scratching your head. Not sure how their instructions can be both specific and vague at the same time. The instructions are for a specific vehicle yet it is up to the end user to shim things and figure it all out. I just don't get it. For such a high dollar product, I would not expect this kind of assembly. I feel your pain.

I have no issue with being told that we need to measure actual alignment and shim as necessary. In many cases we're installing this stuff on far from perfect spindles with pretty wide variances in the measurements of mounting surfaces. It's when the instructions make no mention of correctly aligning, and cause loctite to be applied (red, no less) too early in the process that I get concerned. In this case I'm just happy that Wilwood will take a look at the instructions and hopefully fix it. My intent was to just help other folks out who are installing these things.

[wmhjr]

I had the opportunity to read your extremely well written thread and after reviewing the applicable Data Sheets, discovered that you are absolutely correct. For some reason, the 140-9804 kit's instructions are not correct. Reviewing some of other kits (for example 140-9834) that use radial mount brackets and calipers, the instructions correctly state that prior to using any Loctite: " Slide the caliper (7) in place over the studs and rotors and install the washer (9) and lock nut (8) to hold the caliper in place, Photo 7. The caliper bleed screws should be pointing up. Snug the lock nuts (8) and check that the rotor (3) is centered in the caliper (7). Add or subtract .035" shims (2) as necessary between the mount bracket and the spindle to center the caliper." Your comments have triggered an audit of all our kits to ensure that all Data Sheets are correct. I apolgize for he confusion; this case notwithstanding, we take pride in providing very comprensive and accurate assembly instructions with our kits. I will also brainstorm your other issues with the Sales Department. Thank you for bringing this up.
Ken H

Ken, no problem and thanks for looking into this. If nothing else at least I don't feel as though I'm completely nuts. Mostly - but not completely.