14" Baer All Around. Will Manual booster work?

[John510]

I plan on running 14" Baer 6 piston front and rear. My engine does not have enough vaccuum to run a power booster so I was going to use just my manual Wilwood master cylinder.

Question is... Is manual OK for these brakes or will my leg be cramping after 10 mins of driving?

Wanted manual to keep a clean firewall but will consider forking over the 700 for a hydroboost if Im going to need it.

[xxxturbo6]

Subscribed!

[MuscleRodz]

It will but will not provide seatbelt restraining stops without standing on the brakes Should be a 7/8 bore if memroy serves. If your looking to buy a set soon, I would get them on order this week. Baer is raising their prices 4/1 $300-$400 more on a front and rear set

[Rick Dorion]

What's the area of the bear pistons? I used a 7/8" bore MC with a C4 setup which has small pistons and it stopped well in manual mode.

[John510]

im not sure of area. i think wilwoods are smaller should i get those instead?

[Ron.in.SoCal]

It will but will not provide seatbelt restraining stops without standing on the brakes Should be a 7/8 bore if memroy serves. If your looking to buy a set soon, I would get them on order this week. Baer is raising their prices 4/1 $300-$400 more on a front and rear set

According to Baer, 15/16 master is ideal. I'm going manual. BTW, Wilwood dual master does not come in that size so I'm going to try 1" first....and stand on it!

[John510]

I bought a manual wilwood master this weekend at goodguys but I dont know what size it is.

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Size matters. Wilwood dual master says the size on the side. Take a look and report back...

[Gitter Dun]

Size matters. Wilwood dual master says the size on the side. Take a look and report back...

Ron, might be a good idea to talk to some peep's that have a tried and true set up. I'd hate to see you spend your money twice.

[John510]

It is a 7/8.

[Cdog]

I'm running stop tech str's 6 piston up front and 4 piston in rear manual with .700 Tilton MC.

[John510]

Well I ordered my brakes today. Baer 6P 14" front and rear. Hopefully they wont be too hard to stop with a Wilwood 7/8 manual booster.

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Ron, might be a good idea to talk to some peep's that have a tried and true set up. I'd hate to see you spend your money twice.

Words of wisdom Gae. I tried some time ago to get some real world feedback but couldn't track anyone down - prob should of tried a little harder! I actually have a 7/8 that came w the car and bought a 1" after I got the brakes. Not sure which one will do better, but I'd love to hear from others. If not, I'll be the 6P tester...

[Cdog]

Words of wisdom Gae. I tried some time ago to get some real world feedback but couldn't track anyone down - prob should of tried a little harder! I actually have a 7/8 that came w the car and bought a 1" after I got the brakes. Not sure which one will do better, but I'd love to hear from others. If not, I'll be the 6P tester...

Check out this link. Lots of good info.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/tech_white_papers.shtml

[mike67cam]

If I'm not mistaken, Bad Penny is running 6Ps on all four courners with a 1" manual master. Details here: http://www.camaroperformers.com/camaro-tech/suspension/camp-1002-1968-chevy-camaro-bushings/photo_07.html

[Ron.in.SoCal]

^ Great post Corey. Lemme go get my calculator...:)

[Ron.in.SoCal]

If I'm not mistaken, Bad Penny is running 6Ps on all four courners with a 1" manual master. Details here: http://www.camaroperformers.com/camaro-tech/suspension/camp-1002-1968-chevy-camaro-bushings/photo_07.html

We need Steve to jump in here. D*ck @ BOS told me he went down to 15/16 IIRC...

[Matt@BOS]

We need Steve to jump in here. D*ck @ BOS told me he went down to 15/16 IIRC...

I thought Steve was still running the 1" but thinking of going down to the 7/8" again, but then again, I can't keep track of all of the changes that get made to Bad Penny.

John, in my opinion, you'll be fine with the 1" master cylinder. I originally had a 7/8" Wilwood piece on my car and it was really easy to operate under normal driving situations. My leg never got tired. Recently I switched over to a Tilton setup with individual front and rear master cylinders that are both 7/8." I now have to stand on the pedal to get the brakes to lock up, but even so, under everyday driving conditions I really don't have to apply that much effort to get the car to slow down casually.

Matt

[Payton King]

I have posted this before in other places so if you have read it before I am sorry. To cut the story way down...after lots of trial and error and some good recs, I am running a 7/10 Tilton in the front and 3/4 in the rear with a 6:1 pedal ratio. My Wilwood 6 piston front and 4 piston rear on 13 inch two piece rotors. That got my pressures at the caliper to 1200 psi and 950 psi rear with normal leg pressure of around 100 lbs. What completed my system was a switch to Carbotech AX6 pads all the way around for street driving and auto cross. Use Carbotech Xp10's front and AX6 in rear from track day with street rubber. The pads made a huge difference in my stopping ability. Use to have to stand on it with both legs with Wilwood BP10's, not any more. I am not sure of the piston area difference in a Baer set-up and my Wilwoods.

If you are NOT running a dual master system the consensus has been 7/8 or 15/16 for manual applications with the Wilwood and Baer kits. Smaller the master, the less leg pressure, more brake pressure, more pedal travel.

[xxxturbo6]

I have posted this before in other places so if you have read it before I am sorry. To cut the story way down...after lots of trial and error and some good recs, I am running a 7/10 Tilton in the front and 3/4 in the rear with a 6:1 pedal ratio. My Wilwood 6 piston front and 4 piston rear on 13 inch two piece rotors. That got my pressures at the caliper to 1200 psi and 950 psi rear with normal leg pressure of around 100 lbs. What completed my system was a switch to Carbotech AX6 pads all the way around for street driving and auto cross. Use Carbotech Xp10's front and AX6 in rear from track day with street rubber. The pads made a huge difference in my stopping ability. Use to have to stand on it with both legs with Wilwood BP10's, not any more. I am not sure of the piston area difference in a Baer set-up and my Wilwoods.

If you are NOT running a dual master system the consensus has been 7/8 or 15/16 for manual applications with the Wilwood and Baer kits. Smaller the master, the less leg pressure, more brake pressure, more pedal travel. Good info, Thanks Payton!

I just went with a BAER system myself....

[RSX302]

I was also having the same issue with the manual system and lack of stopping power. I also had the Wilwood 13" 6 piston fronts with 12" 4 piston rears. Could not stop the car with the 15/16" master and forget about locking up the brakes. On a 3800lbs car (3600 + me) to get the car to stop the way I wanted required twin 3/4" wilwoods, there aggresive "H" race pads on a 6:1 pedal ratio. Oh ya, then there was pad knockback in the rears. Had to pump once after you went around a hard corner cus the pedal would go down half way. (I'm sure all brake systems -Wilwood, Baer- are very similar in performance)

So..I Replaced the twin 3/4" masters with the ABS Electric power brake system (tandem 1 3/16" master) and put my pads back to Wilwood's BP20's. Pad knockback is gone, short solid pedal and it will put you thru the front window with little effort. Still very controlled pedal feel.

During my investigations with my brakes, I found when you have a car over 3500ish lbs (and 13" front rotors) you will need to go to power assist. 14" rotors will give you more stopping power over the 13". (I figure about 15% more) Going down to the 3/4" masters also gave me more pedal throw than I wanted.

I think with the Wilwood 7/8 master and 14" 6 piston front rotors, that would work well up to 3500lb car with driver. After that you start pushing the pedal harder or you need to go to a more aggressive pad.

Also, the big 6 piston rear calipers are more for show then go. They are not needed on a street/autocross car since 80%+ braking is done in the front. A day at Willow and my rear 4 pistons worked just fine.

[Wilwood Tech]

John, without knowing the size of your caliper pistons and the ratio of your pedal assembly, it is impossible to give you a definitive answer; however, I can tell you that the vast majority of the cars out there with manual Wilwood systems use a 7/8" bore master cylinder. Some of the earlier threads also mentioned pad compounds. Pad comounds are very critical to brake performance depending on how you are going to use your car. I'm sure the folks at Baer could guide you to the best compound for your application. Good luck!