WIRING???? what to use????

[skigoose]

4317243171OK, I am very confused.... I am putting a 6.1 in with auto trans in a 68 Charger, most have seen this in project updates, it is a clean shell, smoothed firewall...etc... I am getting the engine wiring harness and ecu's from the supplier, but now I need a wires for inside the car.. there are so many choices and the prices are all over the map....

Car will have
A/C
ignition in dash
radio, interior dome light...
The usual stuff...

am I over thinking this??

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

if you are looking for a stock replacement harness for the interior check out M&H Fabrications. I used them for my 67 'Bird and their products are excellent.

http://www.wiringharness.com/

[skigoose]

67 455

Thanks for the info, but I think I am looking for a upgrade over stock, everything on the car will be modern, but when you look at the interior it will look stock

[1969CamaroRS]

I'd take a look at American Autowire (http://www.americanautowire.com/), give them a call. Either their classic update kit might work for your needs(covers a lot of modern upgrades), or one of their custom kits.

I currently have a Classic update kit and am mocking up electrical and so far very happy with it.

[kjwalters]

If you want leading edge technology then I vote ISIS power. Most of us can only afford to do a build like this once. That said, it's best to take the extra time (and cash) and do it right.

[kryptik]

I'd take a look at American Autowire (http://www.americanautowire.com/), give them a call. Either their classic update kit might work for your needs(covers a lot of modern upgrades), or one of their custom kits.

I currently have a Classic update kit and am mocking up electrical and so far very happy with it.

Another big up to AAW. Very high quality components and thorough instructions.

Only thing I'd suggest is to pass on easy crimp connections and make sure you take the time to solder EVERYTHING. It will really spare you all the headaches which "garage" crimping eventually leads to.

[skigoose]

I remember watching an install of this product on a Factory 5 machine (I think) on Two guys garage, I sent them a email to see what they reccomend, Thanks KJ!!

[skigoose]

OK now I am SUPER confused, I got infor from Painless for a 12 circut system that cost 500+ bucks, also from EZ wiring for a 20 Circut system for 200 bucks, and the 3 Cell system from ISIS for 1000 bucks, and American Auto Wire for about 300 bucks... this is all over the map..... PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wmhjr]

It all depends on what you want. You have 3 general strategies to choose from....

1) Go stock/OEM type install. In that case you're doing totally factory type harnesses and connections. Doesn't sound as if you want that.

2) Painless and AAW (I REALLY prefer AAW) have "custom" kits such as the highway 15/22. They are traditional electrical systems designed for you to wire essentially to your own taste in terms of how you want the circuits routed and positioned, having the general circuits pre-labeled, great documentation (at least with AAW).

3) ISIS is totally different. I'd LOVE to play with ISIS but it really wasn't appropriate for my specific project.

Kits based on option 2 are generally the least expensive to buy and allow for reasonable flexibility. Kits based on option 1 are the most "no brainer" if you're staying completely stock or doing a restoration. ISIS is extremely cool if you have the bucks and the right project.

Just categorize the kits between those 3 and you'll probably find there are 3 price ranges that all of them fall into.

[skigoose]

THANKS wmhjr, think I am going with AAW, seems to make the most sense, the ISIS has major WOW factor, but it also has the biggest $$ and I don't think anyone will care if I ever sell it....

[JRouche]

If I were doing another car I might use the EZ Wiring harness. I have the painless 18 circuit harness. Its comparable to the AAW harness as far as I can tell. The column plug hooked right up to my junkyard 80s GM column, all the switches on the column operated all of the circuits. Turn sigs, high and low beam, hazards, everything, it was painless. And AAW has a similar claim to being able to hook right up the the GM plug.

But.... What I didnt like so much was the color coding of the wires for identification. It did take some careful looking at the wire color and size to make sure I had the correct wire. The coloring isnt that defined. Like sometimes the pink wire looked like a red one. Or a grey wire was close to a light blue wire. Specially over the years. My car was a long term build. 15 years of the wires sitting around kinda muted the colors some. And to be honest, the painless manual, as detailed as it is can be is a lil confusing. By the way they do it, its redundant in a way and can confuse. I like schematics, and they have some, many. But they have a strange what connects to what type of description. The AAW instructions seem to be more to the point.

Here are the manuals for the AAW and painless harnesses so you can get an idea.

Painless
http://www.painlesswiring.com/Manuals/10201.pdf

AAW
http://www.americanautowire.com/PDFLink/92968433%20510008%20IN%200.0.pdf

What I like about the EZ harness is they label the wires with numbers. Dont know why painless and AAW dont print numbers on the wires also. Cost Im sure. But the EZ harness is the least expensive. But their support looks a lil slim, no online support that I could find, not even a manual. And they dont really talk about how well it integrates into a stock column, the plug and go for the column that AAW and painless has is a BIG plus.

But if the painless and AAW sets are priced differently, looks like there is a 200 dollar price break with the AAW harness that would be the ticket. Id just like to see some numbers on the wires in addition to the color coding. JR

[wmhjr]

The thing with the saw setup is that they don't just rely on colors or numbers. The highway kits have the written circuit printed right on them, like "headlight". It's printed all the way down the wire on every wire and circuit. That's one of the things that makes them a good choice to me.

[1969CamaroRS]

I wish actual word printed wiring would catch on, like what Ron Francis is doing with their accessory wiring kits:https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/PrintedLeads-1.jpg
http://www.ronfrancis.com/products.asp?dept=14

[wmhjr]

I wish actual word printed wiring would catch on, like what Ron Francis is doing with their accessory wiring kits:https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/PrintedLeads-1.jpg
http://www.ronfrancis.com/products.asp?dept=14

I agree, though I no longer use Ron Francis components. I have a box of their stuff (switches, etc) that I simply will not install because I don't think the quality is sufficient. JMHO. When I get a chance I'm going to sell them - brand new. Just misc stuff. Actually, today I'm removing one of their signal switches as a matter of fact. AAW is labeled also, though perhaps a little more clearly than Ron Francis.

[chevyhector]

I’ve done two re-wiring jobs and I only use American Auto Wire ! Great product ! My 15 year old son even helped and he had no problem running the wires and making the connections without errors.

[skigoose]

OK guys, so I have spoken to all the above mentioned wire companies, EZ, Ron Francis, Painless, American Autowire, and ISIS, they all claim to have better quality than each other, and when I asked each what specifically was better, only Ron Francis gave a real example of a stainless fuse box, don't know if that really matters. I think at this point it woun't really matter between EZ, AAW, but they seem to be the best for the $$, of course the ISIS system looks really cool, but I don't plan on showing off my wiring system. Thanks guys for all your help, if it ever stops raining here in SoCAl I can get the engine bay painted and start the maddness...

[wmhjr]

Ask any vendor why they're the best and they'll all find something to say. Like I said, I no longer use Ron Francis stuff. I just don't think they've kept up at all and are still selling 20 yr old product design. You've got plenty of people telling you stuff here. Not sure what else anyone can tell you at this point.

[1969CamaroRS]

If you do a search for AAW on this site, you will see many, many happy customers. In the end its really up to you to determine which system meets your specific needs the best.

[skigoose]

OK guys, I think I get it now...I will let youknow the final verdict soon, but I think I have a soft spot for AAW, thank you very much for all your help, I remember back in the early 80's when we just guessed, and drove for hours to find a plastic horn ring for a 65 Mustang...

[H2Ogbodies]

more to the point, ask if they include factory style connectors leads to your stock components like headlight switch, wiper switch-you'd be surprised how many just have open leads and expect YOU to use your own connectors-Painless is famous for that from my experience. And, ask about what rating there wiring is. Is it GPT or SXL, GXL or TXL? Most companies use GPT rated wiring which only protects up to 176F while the other three all protect up to 257F. It's something to think about with regards to underhood temps where turbocharged applications can be really high for example. The SXL, GXL and TXL rated wires all have the same 257F rating but have various outer jacket thicknesses for abrasion protection. I don't build complete vehicle harnesses but I design/build my own relay, over-ride and power management harnesses and I only use TXL rated wiring since it offers the most protection. Most companies won't tell you the specs of there parts becasue they don't expect you to know what to ask for. I design and sell a lot of higher end electrical accessories and related parts so if you need help let me know I can point you in the right direction.

[skigoose]

H20
Thank you, thats the kind of info that will help me out a lot, where are you located?

[H2Ogbodies]

No problem. I'm in Des Moines, IA. Selecting wiring components always has compromises in terms of cost but it helps knowing specs to help you sort out why some companies cost more than others. This is a case of really getting what you are paying for. If companies only offer low level protection quality wiring, you can assume their markup must be in excess of 60% which is ridiculous. Having somebody build you custom wiring harnesses for your application has some benefits too though-although it'll cost more no matter what in terms of labor, you can choose what type of wiring to use and where. For example, you can specify TXL grade wiring for all underhood components and GTP for all interior cabin wiring. Then there are lots of various non-feed and feed-thru bulkhead mounts for power distribution, various degrees (literally...lol) of fiberglass heat sleeving for plug wires, starter wiring, etc. so it can help workign with somebody who has the tooling (various crimping dies for metri-pac series, packard, etc. and the knowledge to build exactly what you need-but the cost is higher in those circumstances too. So it all comes down to what you really need, and what you can compromise on. It doesn't make sense to NOT spend good money on wiring/components if you have a lot of money invested in your project imo. Anyway, I'm not trying to sell you anything but just wanted to give you some things to think about from the standpoint of a supplier and builder myself. Hope that helps. -Jabin

[skigoose]

Thanks everyone, I pulled the trigger today, and bought the AAW Hwy22 system, I was at long beach auto swap, and got a brand new one tax and shipping for 375.00, think I should be fine doing it myself, with a little help from my pop

[H2Ogbodies]

Awesome! Wiring is fun...good luck with it and post some pics of the progress!

[wmhjr]

You'll be very happy with the AAW stuff. They provide excellent documentation and schematics. Plus, the quality of their components are very good.

Do yourself a favor and MAKE SURE YOU DOCUMENT YOUR INSTALLATION! The Highway kits are intended to have some customization of how they are actually installed. Make clear, legible notes on their schematics as you go and then secure those drawings. Best of all, do what I did and scan them to PDF as a backup. It's amazing how quickly you'll forget a small detail that could be the difference in having to rip up your carpet and tracing, or just being able to tie into or change a circuit where it's already exposed.

Also, take whatever time you think it's going to take to do the wiring - and at least double it. It's not really tough, but it is very time consuming to do it correctly. SOLDER EVERY CONNECTION! Don't depend on crimp connections. Buy tons of zip ties. As you're routing circuits, use them even temporarily to keep stuff together knowing that you're going to cut some off, add circuits, and retie them. And don't be afraid to question a few things in the AAW design. You may need to modify a bit. Their installation is very generic and you may have a few changes. Especially depending on what kinds of switches and relays you may be using. Finally, think about maintenance and access while you're wiring, especially behind the dash. Make sure you allow enough slack in areas so that you can get dash components in and out, etc. If you wire everything too tightly, maintenance down the road can be really tough.

Have fun! It's actually kind of enjoyable once you get going and you'll get a lot of satisfaction knowing that the final product is very well done.

[67CamNKC]

Any pics of the progress?

[skigoose]

Shannon, I posted some current pics in my Charger Progress section on this site, I will be taking some more tommorow, as all my goodies arrived yesterday.Engine, Trans, AlterKtion, Brakes etc......

[ron @ ron francis]

Hi,
I'm Ron Francis and I thought I might clear up a few points.
#1

[ron @ ron francis]

Hi, I'm Ron Francis. I thought I might clear up a few points of interest.
#1 For the gentleman that was not happy with our product, we offer 100% satisfaction.
#2 Ron Francis Wiring uses a hot stamped method of printing the wires. While this is "old school", it also imprints the wire so it will not rub off like other sprayed on methods. Clear clean lettering all the time.
#3 To the gentleman that thinks we are behind the times, he might want to go to www.ronfrancis.com and order a free catalog. Our competitors use that excuse to keep you from checking us out. We offer fuel injection that AAW doesn't, we offer our new ACCESS 24/7 movable fuse box that can literally be brought out into the foot well to check a fuse.
Have you checked out our select a fuses? The ability to change a circuit from a keyed power circuit to battery power by moving the fuse in the slot.
We offer the very best in cooling fan controls, low voltage lights (idiot lights) for one wire alternators and much much more.
We've been making quality parts since 1974. Don't believe all the other suppliers say. It is hard to compete with our products. Factory Five Rracing used to use Painless and AAW for thier harnesses. Ron Francis wiring has been making them exclusively now for quite a few years. If you have a situation with our products, you can contact me directly at [email protected].
When you order wiring from us, we actually ask you questions like what car, what engine, what alternator and distributor and what steering column? You don't have to settle for a box of GM connectors and spahgetti on the shelf. We'll install a heavier power feed for that big alternaotr if you need it. Your steering column will plug in even if it is a Ford product.

Sorry if I'm preaching, I saw a lot of incorrect information I felt needing some attention.
Have a good one,Ron Francis

[esenior]

Another vote for AAW since that is what I went with. I have a smooth firewall and didn't want the fuse block going through a big hole so I installed a highway 22 kit and am running all of my engine wiring through a single port in the center of the firewall. Body wiring will be routed up through the fender wells. I mounted the AAW up high under the dash to make it less visible.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/69CAMAROPT_110319_05M-1.jpg

Regarding Ron Francis components...

Don't know much about their fuse blocks, I bought the AAW kit years ago, before I ever came across the RF site. The billet mount plate that allows you to pull the fuse block off the firewall looks pretty slick though.

In reference to point #2 from Ron above, he is correct. Just mocking things up I already have wires where the printing is coming off. Not a big problem for initial install, but I wouldn't rely on the labels being there years from now when you need to do troubleshooting. That's why I am documenting all of my wire colors.

I also recently installed a few of the RF switches (headlight and wiper). They make a pretty slick headlight switch that offers brights on the switch itself (pull it all the way out). This allowed me to eliminate that darn button on the floor. The only drawback, no dimmer function (hear that Ron? opportunity for a new feature!)

[1969CamaroRS]

For those of us without existing labeling (or labeling worn off), what about using some kind of label maker to tag the wires with?

McMaster Carr has something like this:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/117/1956/=bntamv
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Just curious what others might have used to tag their wires with, if any.

[Denvervet]

I just used mailing labels.....but it's temporary while I put it all together.

[skigoose]

As for labeling, I am cutting a small section, about 1inch each and gluing them to a 8x10 paper with description next to it, then I will laminate it, and scan the thing into my computer, also taking a lot of hi res pics to keep on file on a CD, Just incase, maybe a little over kill, but...