ABS PANEL VS HARDBOARD vs FIBERGLASS BOARD/ FOR INTERIOR DOOR PANEL BACKING?

[bozzhawg]

I am in the process of restoring my door panels inside my 69 Chevelle.... I wanted to know what is a good material to use as a base or back panel for for my front and rear panels....

Here are 3 I found:

ABS Panel: order online: $30 a sheet

Hardboard: can buy at Home Depot: $3.97-$6.97 a sheet

Fiberglass board: can buy at Home Depot: $32 a sheet

Any reccomendations of which one to use... and works well.......

Bozz

[parsonsj]

Airex C70. $400 a sheet.

From my blog. (http://iimuchfabrication.wordpress.com/2010/10/23/unfairs-interior-fabrication/)

[bozzhawg]

Airex C70. $400 a sheet.

From my blog. (http://iimuchfabrication.wordpress.com/2010/10/23/unfairs-interior-fabrication/)

Cool, is it stable chemically to spray say 3m 77 or 90 adhesive on it and wrap the vinyl around it?

where can I get the Airex C70?


Bozz

[wellis77]

$400 a sheet?! WOW that's crazy nuts! I was hoping to use it for some things when I first read your blog about it, but I'm gonna have to pass at that price. Too bad, that stuff looks great!

[parsonsj]

Cool, is it stable chemically to spray say 3m 77 or 90 adhesive on it and wrap the vinyl around it?Absolutely. You can use adhesive and tooling as if it were MDF. You can also use fiberglass resin and body filler with it.

It's hard to get retail. My guy William gets it for me; you could give him a call: http://www.1offrides.com

jp

[parsonsj]

I was hoping to use it for some things when I first read your blog about it, but I'm gonna have to pass at that price. It is expensive, there's no denying that. But... it's the best material for interior work on the planet. When you think about custom work, the labor hours usually overwhelm the material costs, and that's true for interior stuff too. If I'm going to work for days to make interior panels, the initial cost of $400 for the backing panel isn't going to stop me. $2000 for ostrich skin might though. :)

jp

[bozzhawg]

Ok, I was trying to find a distributor here in the states that sold airex C70
I also found this Divinycell H , made by diab foam, supposed to be simular to airex C70.... but the Divinycell H is $40 for a sheet of 1/4" 4ft x8ft pretty reasonable.... They claim it is good for sculpting, shapes, and stiff foam, low water restistance, good for fiberglass... Anybody used this?

I don't know if I could do the $400 a sheet....... This is not a show car or trailer queen.... I drive my car 4-5 days a week.... Seems like the airex C70 is hard to get.... I have been reasearching some options all night and this morning.....

Bozz

[wellis77]

It is expensive, there's no denying that. But... it's the best material for interior work on the planet. When you think about custom work, the labor hours usually overwhelm the material costs, and that's true for interior stuff too. If I'm going to work for days to make interior panels, the initial cost of $400 for the backing panel isn't going to stop me. $2000 for ostrich skin might though. :)

jp

That's a great point. I have yet to build an interior so I don't know how much would be required but if you're building a console, doing some dash work and maybe even package tray, you could possibly get away with just one sheet? When it's broken down to how far it can go that may make it a bit easier to swallow. Still likely out of my league, but super cool stuff!

[bozzhawg]

I found some more material.....


Volara Sculpting Foam, has anyone used this?

And it looks like 3m reccomends using contact 80 instead of Super 77 or 90 for the adhessive of the vinyl....


Bozz

[crustysack]

Wow Airex c70 is WAAAAAAYYYYY over kill for an interior panel in a car, this stuff is a structural foam used in sandwich construction of carbon fiber panels in race boats and aircraft, you are throwing money away if you are not vacuum bagging carbon fiber to this material. There is ZERO structural load designed into the interior door panel of a car, thats why they are made of cardboard. If you want to make a custom sculpted interior panel use the divinycell, you will not notice a difference. except in your wallet.

[parsonsj]

Use cardboard if you want your interior panels to feel like, oh, GM door panels made in the 60s, lol. The DivinyCell sounds promising though. I'll check it out. It might be just the material for door panels.

I'm also using Airex C70 for the console, dash cover, rear seat delete, etc. Those panels do carry some load.

jp

[crustysack]

Those panels do carry some load.

jp
I beg to differ- no interior panel carries load per the design of the auto structure. If you were to remove every interior panel in any vehicle the crash tests and ratings would still be the same. I will agree the airex material is very nice to work with and I have made structural parts with it. but the thread starter is restoring door panels so anything that absorbs water less than cardboard would be more than adequate. The airex is used a a foam core for sandwich panels of fiberglass or carbon if you are just using it to wrap material around you do NOT get the sheer strength mechanical properties that this material is capable of producing thus a complete waste of money.. It would be like making a battery tray out of titanium. Now if you are making vacuum bag consolidated laminates on your airex for the interiors then you are making true structural parts . But then again if you are comfortable working with the material and you can get people to pay for it then more power to you. I will also state that I have built my center console and rear console /sub enclosure out of a completely over the top material-- aerospace grade 20mm Aramid honeycomb laminated with prepreg carbon fiber (SP SE84 200gm 3k twill 37% resin content +/-2% and SE84 300gm uni same resin content)

[parsonsj]

No, I stand by what I said. (though I think we are mostly in agreement based on your center console design :) )

The interior panels pieces I mentioned carry load. Center console, dash pad, rear seat delete setup. It's not required for the car to go down the road, but those panels carry load. Examples: you put some of your body weight on the center console when positioning yourself in your seat, or it can hold electronic components. The dash pad can be used to anchor the HVAC outlets, switches, gauges, and stereo gear. The rear seat delete will have a sub-woofer and speakers. Using high grade material lets you get away from having to anchor all that stuff in the steel body.

Anyway, you got a pic of that console and sub enclosure?

jp

[crustysack]

Yes I will agree that using high grade material has large benefits. The word "load" can be interpreted differently here, I do agree some load is placed on the above components in the manner you describe, but in my business "load" is always the weight or force applied to a certain area that is critical to the over all performance of the vehicle- in my case racing sailboats. Anyway I love working with high tech stuff and like to see it going into old school muscle- heres the center console, the rear and a couple of other bits-I thought I had a finished shot of the center console but I cant find it- and of course the 2003 date is wrong on the pics:cheers:

[The WidowMaker]

can the divinycell be worked (routed) the same as mdf or airex? a 3/4" 4x8 sheet is around $125 and i didnt find it anywhere local with a quick search. im looking for door panels, dash, center console and rear package tray with a mounted 10" sub. the package tray is all im really worried about structurally. with the rough designs ive come up with, im looking at about 2 sheets if all the same thickness, but i would like a couple different thicknesses which adds to the number needed.

[crustysack]

divinycell is a closed cell foam so yes you can rout it, cut it ,sand and shape it easily. and you need to wrap it with fiberglass to get it to hold a sub

[parsonsj]

Nice work, CS (by the way, can you put a name in your signature... I really don't like addressing you by your userid, lol. See this (https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?50566-Who-the-heck-are-you-people-(everyone-please-read.)).)

Anyway, how much does your console weigh? I'm guessing "finger-light", but I'm not familiar with Aramid honeycomb. Is that the reddish-brown color below the carbon-fiber you can see around the shifter handle?

jp

[The WidowMaker]

divinycell is a closed cell foam so yes you can rout it, cut it ,sand and shape it easily. and you need to wrap it with fiberglass to get it to hold a sub

how about for the center console and door panels? can you still see a need to wrap with glass, or just vinyl/leather. i like the fact that it can be routed, i just want to find a way to keep the details from getting glassed and needing HOURS of sanding. if nothing else, im wondering if just glassing the back of the panel will work. to help reinforce it a little.

i will also most likely use mdf on the rear deck for the sub. im going to try and make part of the shelf the top of the box.

[crustysack]

Yes the honey comb is the brown material you see thru the cut out. "finger light " is a pretty accurate weight calculation- the panel is made of 20mm thick nomex and 2 layers of 300 gm uni + 1 layer 200gm twill so the panel weight is about 1800 gm per square meter - approx 4lbs for a square meter- add in the tabbing,the fillet glue, the solid carbon cup holders and the catch all box and paint and the console is up to a whopping 7 lbs ( approx) if I was REALLY concerned with the weight I could probably build this part under 3 lbs but the panel material was available and the stereo weighs 10 lbs at least- and I just wanted to build it for the cool factor:cheers:
Scott

[parsonsj]

Tim, I think you can just 'glass the inside edges and faces. That way you won't be sanding for hours on the outside. That's how we plan to finish our Airex panels.

7 lbs. ! Very very nice. I'll weigh our stuff when it's done (2-3 months from now). I'm hoping for a similar weight. As a comparison, the MDF console in II Much weighed more than 20 lbs.

jp

[The WidowMaker]

As a comparison, the MDF console in II Much weighed more than 20 lbs.

thats what im worried about. 3/4" sheets of mdf are ~90lbs and the 'ultra light" arent that much better. if i dont go the foam route, i will build a webbed structure from mdf and glass it or mill out the back leaving the front untouched.

[aronhk_md]

Theres always bendy/bender board and thin plywood as good structural bases for these things. Not necessarily super cheap, but the spruce plywoods we use for giant scale R/C aircraft is quite strong, and when glued/braced appropriately (dont have to worry about weight QUITE as much as when building an airplane) you'd have to smash it with something to break it. Even if you go beyond that stuff and use 1/4" plywood its way lighter than 3/4" MDF and just as strong. Can be used as panels, consoles, enclosures.....and if you need a bend the bendy board fills that need. Can always glass behind that too if needed.

I think this is how I'm going to build my console and door panels......when I get to it. If I need to do complex curves as I hope to around my gauges I can always use balsa too. Paint over it with Weld Bond glue (dries clear) and its hard as a rock and ready for paint or covering.

[WEAVER]

We use .040 and.050 aluminum

[Brad1970]

How bout what this guy did (this thread is just a few down from yours)

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?76075-Door-panel-build-thread

[parsonsj]

Thin, easily bent materials are fine for door panels. PVC, thin aluminum sheet, etc.

The thicker stuff is needed for consoles, speaker enclosures, etc.

jp

[parsonsj]

In fact, here's a link to making a dash insert out of aluminum:

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?48000-II-Much-dash-insert&highlight=nova+dash+insert

jp

[1offboy]

The reason AIREX C70 is expensive is that we get it with the fiberglass already on both sides and peel ply which makes the panel ready for building.It takes close to six hours to vaccum form 2 sheets of AIREX but at the end you get a perfect flat panel that will never warp or distort plus is super strong and feather weight