tech question on 78 Camaro

[Steve1968LS2]

Hey, I get tech letter here and it is nice to get feedback.. thoughts on this?

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I have a 78 Camaro that I am looking at putting the ramjet 502or bigger motor into. I was wondering if in your vast magazine archives do you have anything on stuffing the biggest tires in the rear of this? I want to run a 335/35YR17 in the rear. IM not against some rear frame mods but I want to make this thing bite and go at the strip as well. I would like to put some ladder bars to help traction and obviously move the leaf springs in. I would like to keep the body bashing down to a minimum (AKA tubing) but still fit the meats. I have been looking at the offset spring hangers CE makes for the 67-69 Camaro but I have to fab a new perch in front. I may even have to get new frame rails to weld in to make the room. All in all I guess if you can understand my ramblings I want to put those tires on my car and make the suspension safe w/o going to a 4 link. If you have any tech on it id really appreciate it. Hell I just hope there was someone else out there that was as crazy enough to do this lol! Thanks and keep up the great work on the magazine.
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If I am not mistaken he is going to have to do a TON of modifications to get 335's in the back of that 78.. right? I know my first gens better but as I remember the second gens had even less room. I know he will have to minitub but wouldn't he have to rework the frame rails as well? Narrow the gas tank?

Oh, will DSE offset shackles work on a second gen?

I figure if I find the info here I can plug pro-touring.com with a clear concious :)

[MuscleRodz]

I say sending him here. I think there is roughly the same room, but more complicated to minitub. There has been a thread either here or Lat-g that showed a guy minitubbing his second gen. Definitely require quite a bit of fabrication. The DSE shackles I don't think will work because I believe the frame rails cant the opposite direction meaning he will have to move the front perches instead of the rear. I may be wrong, but they did change in either the 2nd or 3rd gen.

Mike

[zbugger]

Actually Steve, you're wrong there. The second gen Camaro has more room than the first gen. I have 275/60 15's on my car and the only thing I did was roll the fender lip, and that was for my own peace of mind. The 335's will definitely require a minitub. You can already fit 315's out back on them with extremely minimal mods, but it is tight. Moving the leaf springs inward is something that will definitely help for the 335's. Even with the 315's though, you will have to roll the fender lip. Not only that, but I wouldn't recommend lowering it more than an inch. Look at the Hotchkis F71 Camaro and talk to them about it. I do believe they had rubbing issues.

Also, another great site for info on second gen Camaros is the Second Gen Camaro Owners Group. The site is www.nastyz28.com and it is filled with good people, and tons of information. I really recommend taking a look at that one.

As for the rest of his setup..... These cars do have a tendency to twist. Make sure to get subframe connectors at least, and if you're gonna go fast at the track, a cage is the best bet to getting all the traction out of it as possible. Also, there is a modification addressed in Tony's book on the front spring mount that will get better bite. You'd have to talk to Kyle about their offset shackles though. I'm not sure on that one. Anything else?

[KacyZ28]

i have a friend that had a set of 295 50s (i think) 15 under his 78 so there is more room stock

[MrQuick]

Yeah Steve, send him out here, I just helped a guy out with a 79 and I have some pretty good spring mounting ideas he could use. You still need to notch the frame about an inch but its not too bad.

[Mean 69]

Also, another great site for info on second gen Camaros is the Second Gen Camaro Owners Group. The site is www.nastyz28.com and it is filled with good people, and tons of information. I really recommend taking a look at that one.

Sweet link! I think I found a 71 project car, this will help out a bunch.

So Steeve, how do I sweet talk you into doing a project dealy for my next car in the mag!?

M

[Steve1968LS2]

Yeah Steve, send him out here, I just helped a guy out with a 79 and I have some pretty good spring mounting ideas he could use. You still need to notch the frame about an inch but its not too bad.

Thanks guys.. that was the point me asking.. that way when I respond in the mag to his question I can point him (and others reading) to this site..

So the consensus is that in a 17" wheel you CAN run a 315 but it will most likely rub, you will have to roll the lip and you can't lower the car much at all.. a 295 then should fit easily then.. right?

335's are cool but really unnecesary unless you are running bigger front tires as well..

Right track?

[Steve1968LS2]

Yeah Steve, send him out here, I just helped a guy out with a 79 and I have some pretty good spring mounting ideas he could use. You still need to notch the frame about an inch but its not too bad.

So with the notching and spring perch mods how big a 17" tire will fit?

Just curious :)

[MrQuick]

Hi Steve, I thought 335 was the largest availible NOW? Come to think about it. 335 17's go on 11" rims right? You might just need to relocate leafs and mini tub...frame should be cool. I was on an 18" trip. 295 on 10 no problem, 315 on 11" will rub.

[Marcus SC&C]

Agreed, 295s no sweat. I had those on my `78 TA canyon racer back in the `80s. They seemed HUGE back then. ;) 315s if the backspacing is just right,the wheel well lip is rolled and the rear seatbelt bolt bulges are massaged (read,beaten with a big hammer until they don`t stick out into the wheelwell ;) ). I never tried to fit 335s under one but we did a Firebird a few years ago with 345-30-19s on 13.5" HRE wheels and it required custom tubs and framerails. Marcus

[Steve1968LS2]

Hi Steve, I thought 335 was the largest availible NOW? Come to think about it. 335 17's go on 11" rims right? You might just need to relocate leafs and mini tub...frame should be cool. I was on an 18" trip. 295 on 10 no problem, 315 on 11" will rub.

My brain is wired for 18" rims.. 335 is the biggest tire sofar and I think 315's would be the biggest on a 17" but I am not sure.

I was a little surprised the 315's would fly without major surgery..

I still think a 295 would be best bet unless you are gonna mini-tub the deal..

[Derek69SS]

my brother in-law has 205/60 15s on his '78 'bird, does that help? :thankyou: :lmao:

seriously, I'm tempted to buy him some damn tires so it doesn't look so stupid!

[David Pozzi]

Here's the combo on my wife's 73 Camaro:
F 17X8, 4.5" bs
R 17X9.5 5.5"bs.

TIRES F 245/45/17, R 285/40/17
This took very little work, just a rear lip roll and bang back the bulge for the rear seat belts. With a little more work a wider tire could be used.

[OneslowZ28]

Its nice to have such a helpful group especially on older cars. Im registered on ls1.com and it works great for mod ideas on my 01 camaro but they barely oops! did I say barely? i mean no tech on older cars. I have found all of your info very useful in my OVER-research on doing what no one has done. As I sit now I was thinking on going with the CE ladder frame kit. If I do it right it should be a pretty sleek set-up. My only question is has anyone played with this frame kit and how well does it work and install? Any one have any ideas on how to temporarily reinforce the rear of the car while the new frame is being put in. Thanks a bunch and i will keep everyone posted on any info I come accross.

[zbugger]

Well, the ladder bar kit will work fine on a street/strip car. Although a four link might be better. No offense, but in our world here it's crap. It won't handle turns like we like them. The one thing we really request here is an honest idea of what you plan on doing with your car. Do you want it to be streetable, yet take corners very well? Or do you plan on taking it to a road course every once in a while? Or do you just plan on showing it? Or do you plan on mainly drag racing? While we do all of that here, it's mainly the first two or three questions. Personally, I don't drag race. It's boring to me. Sorry. But taking turns on the back roads and in the hills really gets me going.

Back to what I was really asking, what are your plans for the car? That will help us to help you in the right direction.

[MrQuick]

Hey how you doing? Welcome to the site.

What are your plans with the car and how far along are you with the project?
The CE kit is more a drag racing set up and would work ok for an all around car. There are alternatives.
When bracing you want to triangulate the support bars and try not to preload any of them when welding. Make sure they sit in tight without applying pressure. Also plan ahead for room for demo and removale of metal. pictures?

[OneslowZ28]

I havent started yet thats coming up in fall, im lucky i passed emissions. What my plans are for the car is a F.I. streetable car that can take 1/4 mile in 11 sec. or so. The main reason is my buddies dad bought that overpriced ramjet 502 (aka zl1 motor) and i want to look cool and be able to smoke him in the 1/4 mile. He's putting all of that into a mid 60's vette with the custom c5 chassis. I plan on making a rolling frame for my 78. it has T-tops which weaken it right there but a roll cage is a must to reinforce the body. As for a 4 link i want to start out with baby steps and get to know the ladder setup before i get too far ahead of myself. i know they are better but the adjusting i wouldnt know where to begin. I know the CE kit you can add later the 4 link set-up. If you guys think id be chasing my tail with the ladder set-up can anyone help with the adjustment if i need them? Every one here seems to be a lot of help so i would assume if i need hand holding i can get it lol.
Is it possible to get a 78 camaro to do 11's handle like its on rails with 335 out back, probably 255 to 275 in front and still be a decent ride? What HP and TQ would i be looking for to get that 3500 lb that quick. Thanks!
here is a link to show my 2 cars i will be adding more later.

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&uid=3533529&gid=7267816&

[zbugger]

Do a search for Nineball on the members list here. He has a '69 Camaro that is easily where you are wanting to go with leafsprings and a smaller tire. I think there are video's posted around as well. Make sure you get all the info you can before you really start tearing into anything.

[79T/Aman]

don't bother with the ladder bars you can do a good job with the leaf springs and cal-tracs ( some cars run in the 8's with them) just start with a good foundation that means the chassis, fram connectors and a roll bar to take the torque of that big block.

[MrQuick]

All right wheres Mark aka TIG man when you need him. He's build a fast 3rd gen and he might have some info on alternative rear suspensions.

[Steve1968LS2]

Its nice to have such a helpful group especially on older cars. Im registered on ls1.com and it works great for mod ideas on my 01 camaro but they barely oops! did I say barely? i mean no tech on older cars. I have found all of your info very useful in my OVER-research on doing what no one has done. As I sit now I was thinking on going with the CE ladder frame kit. If I do it right it should be a pretty sleek set-up. My only question is has anyone played with this frame kit and how well does it work and install? Any one have any ideas on how to temporarily reinforce the rear of the car while the new frame is being put in. Thanks a bunch and i will keep everyone posted on any info I come accross.

See.. I told you this was a great site.. thanks for sending us at PHR the tech letter. I didn't want you to have to wait a month to get the info.

Lots of smart people here.. hell, they teach me stuff all the time ;)

Welcome to the site!!

Steven Rupp
Tech Monkey
Popular Hot Rodding..

[OneslowZ28]

Id like to say thanks to everyone that has helped me with my delema on suspensions and traction. Hey steve you up for doing an actual tech article in the magazine "The search for 335's on a 2nd Gen Camaro" I know someone who has the perfect donor car LOL! Thanks again for the help