Flip - '69 Firebird Build

[CarQz17]

First time doing a build thread so bear with me. I bought a 69 firebird a few months back and spend that time getting it driveable. I rewired it with MAD electical's new system, installed a new edelbrock carb, manifold and air cleaner and a few other odds and ends. Ran great but I hated the way it rode and it sounded like it was going to shake apart. Thus I bought a full DSE suspension for it and started digging in the other day. This is what I found and the work that ensued. Whoever had the car before me did almost as much work to cover up the damage than what it would have been to do it right. They were good, I give them that. Keep in mind I am 22 and doing all of this in my 1 car garage in my apartment. Here it is...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2148-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2143-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2147-1.jpg
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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2349-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2375-1.jpg
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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2343-1.jpg

I did some more work tonight and found some other big holes. I will post them in the morning when I get a chance to take some photos. Looks like I'll be doing under seat pans, trunk pan. inner rear wheel wells, frame rails, and probably the tail panel. Basically the whole rear half of the car. Will I need to brace the car to keep it true as long as the quarters stay on?

[MrQuick]

looks good but finding rot always sucks. Nice that everything is there,.


vince

[ModernMuseum]

Nice!! Good to see another 69 bird on here. I salute you for doing it at your apt. complex as well. I always hated picking up my tools every time I needed to run to the auto parts store and pick something up.

Make sure you lock that garage up tight though. Apartments are breeding grounds for would-be thieves.

[CarQz17]

Need some help. I cannot get the front leaf spring mount off. I believe they are J-nuts and since the locking mechanism is rotted I think the nuts are just spinning on me between the floor pan and the mount. Should I just leave them hanging until I cut out the pans?

[Josue]

You could cut access holes and just weld them back up when you're done. That's what the previous owner of our '69 convertible project did...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/104_3847-1.jpg

[CruizinKev]

nice project! good luck with :twothumbs

[CarQz17]

Here is a little bit more of what I am working with. I understand that I need essentially a whole new rear section of the car, save the quarters. The tail panel looks nice but it is filled with bondo and about a 1/2 inch thick...no kidding. What is it gonna take to do this? Does anyone know of a build thread I can follow? Should I mini tub it while I am at it? Would that be harder than normal replacements? Can I save the tail panel for a later date or should I just go ahead and do it the right way now? If I remove all this will the car twist? Give me some feedback and ideas of where to go from here and how difficult it will be. I can grind, weld, wrench and wire. How bad?

Here is the engine bay wired with MAD's new system. Still need to wrap or loom them. Not sure which route to go...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2384-1.jpg

This is the sneaky patch panel that showed up when I removed the seat. The mufflers blocked it from below as well.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2386-1.jpg

Interior as it sits
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2387-1.jpg

My garage. As you can see I am really working with limited space. The rear end is out and I am having issues getting the exhaust out without cutting. I need to do something with brake and fuel lines as well before I can hack into the floor.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2388-1.jpg

How it looked when I got the car. Looks solid as can be doesn't it?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2390-1.jpg

With a little hammer work this is what I found.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2389-1.jpg

Some smaller holes from the old screwdriver and hammer rust test in the trunk pan.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2391-1.jpg

Front of the rear wheel well.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2392-1.jpg

From the inside of the wheel well under the removed patch panel.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2393-1.jpg

Small space.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2395-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2397-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_2398-1.jpg

[68400BIRD]

To get the front spring pocket bracket out you will need to grind the heads off of the three bolts. The j nuts inside break all the time. I would order a new leaf install kit. I also went one size bigger on my u bolts and put two on each side and disposed of the t bolts. You can look through my thread and see if that helps at all.




https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56435

[rickpaw]

Like 68400bird said, if you don't want to cut the floor. But careful of aftermarket j-nuts, see the link from camaros.net for additional details. Those after market j-nuts are known for breaking while you tighten the bolt, then back to square one.
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83635

After reading through the thread, I ended up ordered mine through the local Chevy dealer. In fact just picked up the j-nuts today.

[Steve Firebird]

My 69 Firebird just got finished and we have an extensive build thread at V8TV. They go into floor and trunk floor replacement and other info you may find helpfull. Good luck. 1969 Firebirds kick a$$. Here is a link. Grab a bag of chips and a drink and crawl through the thread.
Steve

http://www.v8tvshow.com/forum/index.php/topic,2383.0.html

[Josh69]

Glad to see another '69 in the works!

I also cut access holes for my spring perch j nuts. Might as well do the floors though if you can at the same time. You're in luck that they make a new tail panel finally for the birds now. Looks like you might as well do the mini-tub, at least it'll give you options for expansion in the future. If I were to do it over I would have. It is more work, but there are quite a few helpful threads on it around the web. Good luck! Keep us posted!

[CarQz17]

Glad to see another '69 in the works!

I also cut access holes for my spring perch j nuts. Might as well do the floors though if you can at the same time. You're in luck that they make a new tail panel finally for the birds now. Looks like you might as well do the mini-tub, at least it'll give you options for expansion in the future. If I were to do it over I would have. It is more work, but there are quite a few helpful threads on it around the web. Good luck! Keep us posted!

Josh, I was contemplating either doing a narrowed moser 12 so I can get that deep dish look or doing a tub for real. It looks like I may tub it but how do you like your rear end? Any photos of your car finished? I'd love to see the interior etc.

[CarQz17]

Found some more patch panels. Does the full trunk pan replacement even cover this spot or is there some custom metal shaping in my future? This is under the rear package tray looking toward the rear.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2404-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2405-1.jpg

Some other bad spots. Specifically the rear wheel well just behind the rockers and the spot just in front of the shock mount.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2406-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2407-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2409-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2408-1.jpg

I finally started cutting out one of the rear seat pans. It was a bit tough to find the spot welds. I need to get a spot weld cutter to make my life a bit easier. A compressor and air tools would be nice too but since I live in an apt the neighbors would probably frown on that noise. One question I have is where to put the jack stands now since I will be removing the rear frame rails??
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2403-1.jpg

I was going to use the masking tape template trick to cut the hole but since one side of it is welded to the rocker or pinch or whatever that it won't transfer. Also I don't think I really need to use the whole replacement panel. I was thinking of just using the part that matched what I had already cut out. Is this wise? What would you all recommend?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2401-1.jpg

Also, there is rot farther forward than the panel goes so I will have to fab something up to go in between. Any tips tricks or ideas?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2402-1.jpg

[Steve Firebird]

Floor replacement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1pegxYfEEY&feature=channel


Trunk floor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aegbKrp_m5o

[CarQz17]

Floor replacement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1pegxYfEEY&feature=channel


Trunk floor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aegbKrp_m5o

I watched those in your thread and they were a great help. I gathered some good ideas. Thanks!

[Josh69]

Josh, I was contemplating either doing a narrowed moser 12 so I can get that deep dish look or doing a tub for real. It looks like I may tub it but how do you like your rear end? Any photos of your car finished? I'd love to see the interior etc.

My build thread is here:

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=23914&highlight=sr71

Still working on decent pictures. I can say I love the rear-end. No noise, nice and smooth, the Detroit Tru-Trac does the job. I got my set-up through Frank at Prodigy, I would for sure use him, he can help with the details. Mine is narrowed up as far as can be with leaf mounts in stock location. Mine looks tubbed in person, without getting on your hands and knees, you wouldn't know it's not with the dish I have. Moser actually messed up and made mine narrower than we wanted, so I have to use spacers...though I could technically add a wheel with even more dish in the future, but I won't bother until if/when I tub it.

[fst64_v8pwr]

Nice 69 Firebird !

[CarQz17]

This is a random question, but when you do a mini-tub job, where do you mount the shock?

[CarQz17]

Nevermind I searched..

Anyway. Here is the latest update. Haven't had much time to work on the bird but tonight I had some time to tear more patch panels out. There are still two more to go.

Inside passenger side. I think I may be able to get away with leaving the trunk pan in as long as I mini tub the car. I may have to fabricate some small pieces to close out the rest. What do you all think? Cheap?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2507-1.jpg

Closer. Just below the rear shock mount.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2508-1.jpg

Passenger side wheel well almost done with the tear down.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2509-1.jpg

Rear view of the passenger side. This will give you a better view of the damage and how well the mini tub will work.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2511-1.jpg

Close up.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2512-1.jpg

The aftermath. I need to find somewhere to put that rear end. Any Ideas?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2513-1.jpg

I bought a little 110 MIG the other day. It is the Lincoln version. I got it all set up last night but need to get an extension cord to handle the amperage before I can test her out.

Soon I will get the tail panel stripped to see what I am dealing with there. I want to strip the trunk pan as well. I have a feeling they are covering up something there as well.

My next purchase needs to be some eastwood butt weld clamps and some POR 15 to cover the top side and the welds of the leaf spring reinforcement before I cover it back up with the floor pan.

[CarQz17]

What should I hit the panels with after they are cleaned up?

[gearheads78]

I commend you but you are crazy doing that kind of work in an appartment. Someone is going to to compain and you may even get kicked out. I have a 24 x 36 garage and I find it even small when I was doing a frame off.

If I was you I would go in with a buddy and rent a house with a 2 car garage. Probably cost less than the appartment and will give you more space. When I was in my mid 20's I rented a house in Garland and had a non carguy roommate. I paid 100 more than him but got all of the garage.

Good luck. Looks like you got a coverup special there.

[bonecrrusher]

Put the rear axle on your porch of your apt if you have one...

[CarQz17]

Welllll, here is another update. Got a little carried away and decided to see what was really underneath this fresh $400 paint job. I decided to strip the tail panel. If the tail panel was bad I was going to do a complete floor pan and while I had the rear end apart. Since I found solid steel under a what seemed like a 1/2 inch of bondo (don't ask) I decided to do the center trunk pan along with the rest of the issues at hand. That will be in a later update as well as the mini tub kit.

Here is the interesting tack job on the rear quarter after stripping.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2515-1.jpg

Center of the tail panel with 1/2 inch of bondo. I threw in a photo of the chunk with my razor knife next to it as a reference.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2517-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2518-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2519-1.jpg

The seats were pulled and the carpet was thrown out. Then I stripped out the insulation straight from 1969 and pitched that as well.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2560-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2559-1.jpg

Threw another coat of aircraft stripper on the tail panel and a bit of wire wheeling. Still have a way to go.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2561-1.jpg

The floors were scrubbed and scraped and cleaned out. I also got a chance to pull one of the last patch panels just in front of the left rear shock mount.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2562-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2563-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2566-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2567-1.jpg

I ended up stripping a few spots in the trunk where it looked as if there was some rippling from bondo. Of course I found more.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2564-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2565-1.jpg

My helper.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2571-1.jpg

The new welding setup. Which will soon be put to the ultimate test.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2568-1.jpg

I am banking on the fact that the oversize center trunk pan, under seat pans, under rear seat reinforcements, rear frame rails, and mini tubs will cover all of the bad spots.

Comments, questions, concerns?

[jlwdvm]

Check this out: http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/showthread.php?t=644027&page=2

I've been stripping off the epoxy primer that came on my 69 project (applied by previous owner) and have found a few suprises, but nothing that can't be dealt with. http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/showthread.php?t=645651

I've been using a 4.5" grinder and paint stripping discs from Harbor Freight that cost about $5/each. Still have the doors, hood, and front fenders to do. I'm on my 4th disc.

[OnEdge]

Sorry to hear that you are finding all kinds of problems. Also Harbor freight carries those butt joint clamps that are MUCH cheaper that the Eastwood. It is basically the same clamp. What did you scrub your floors with to get it so clean? Good luck with the build!

[CarQz17]

Sorry to hear that you are finding all kinds of problems. Also Harbor freight carries those butt joint clamps that are MUCH cheaper that the Eastwood. It is basically the same clamp. What did you scrub your floors with to get it so clean? Good luck with the build!

Thanks! I'll definitely get some of those butt weld clamps. They were scrubbed with a scraper, then a wire brush and then cleaned off. Simple. Once all the welding and grinding is done I will coat them with something.

[CarQz17]

Took the wire wheel to the bondo spots last night. Wound up with a few wires implanted in my leg, a whole lot of dust, and found a really terrible lap joint job on the quarter skins. Pictures tell the tale. I may look into doing skins the right way. I would like to do the whole quarter but I'm not sure that is in the budget or if I have enough room in my garage to do so.

Anyone have tips on building a jig?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2572-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2573-1.jpg
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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2576-1.jpg

[dhutton]

You are pretty brave to tackle something like that in a 1 car garage without air tools or a compressor. I admire your enthusiasm and determination to make it right.

FWIW I hate those butt weld clamps, I think the gap is too wide. I get the best results making the gap between the two panels as tight as I can when doing butt welds. If you are determined to use them you can find them cheap on ebay.

[CarQz17]

I think the butt weld gap is .040 correct? How do you recommend holding the panel in place? Magnets? Any suggestions welcome.

[dhutton]

I think the butt weld gap is .040 correct? How do you recommend holding the panel in place? Magnets? Any suggestions welcome.

I shoot for the narrowest gap I can get and that usually holds it in place if I cannot use vice grip clamps to hold it. I know this goes against the gap being the same width as the thickness of the material but I found that did not work too well for me.

[CarQz17]

Cut out the floor on the passenger side. I'm going to have to replace the under seat reinforcements before I can do the floor pans. Not sure if jigging the car is necessary for this part of the process since it may move the front mounting point of the leaf spring.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2577-1.jpg

I've gotten all of the filler and paint off of the center of the tail panel. Looks like someone backed into something just off the passenger side of the license plate. I may be able to save it but since the edges are iffy, I may just go ahead and replace the whole thing.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2578-1.jpg

I am also thinking about either 80% quarters or just skins since I am in such a small space, don't want to take the glass out, and do not have the option of getting the car blasted so I could cut on the sail panel. Opinions?

[Josue]

If that's the only option, then that's the only option...not much you can do there. At least they will be a little easier to line up, since the door jamb will be in tact, and the top only goes up to the body line.

[gearheads78]

I think the butt weld gap is .040 correct? How do you recommend holding the panel in place? Magnets? Any suggestions welcome.

Little strips of sheet metal with clecos work great. Drill a small hole on each end of the metal. Drill a hole in the panel you are welding to and hold the stip of metal with the cleco. Now line up the perfectly fitted panel butted right up against the car. You then drill another hole in the new panel lined up with the hole in the metal strip and hold in place with another cleco. once its all welded together you can weld up the few small holes you made for the clecos.

Before you weld on the car practice a lot with scrap. But welding is by far the best way to go but will take practice. Also when you start welding on the outside get a dolly basicly the same shape as the inside of the panel you are working on. When you start tacking right after each tack put the dolly on the back of the weld and use your body hammer to hammer right on top of the weld. As the metal cools it will shrink. By hammering on the weld you are helping to stretch it back out and keeping the panel more true.

[CarQz17]

I spent the weekend with the old man stripping out the old and patching in the new. The frame rails were spliced, and the under seat reinforcements were replaced. The photos only show one side. I also ended up in the hospital after my grinder caught my hand. I've got mini tubs and trunk parts to be put in next. Feels good to actually add to the car instead of tearing it apart. Success!:smoke:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2598-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2596-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2599-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/IMG_2597-1.jpg

[67blacklist]

good job man, you really seem to be doing things well and right for a first time low buck build, hopefully I'll find a place and can start down the same journey soon.

I like the pics of the bondo thickness, I found the same unfortunate surprise covering a hack-job on my rocker and quarter panels.

[68400BIRD]

Did the PO replace the rockers and just spot weld them in on the bottom?