How to justify $1000 per wheel

[317millhand]

I had the opportunity to watch the autocross at RTTH this past weekend and had a blast. I noticed that alot of the cars were running the same Forgeline and Rushforth wheels. My quesion is, what makes these wheels worth the huge price tag? Im not trying to bash anything or anyone, Im just curious about the advantages of these wheels for a street car? Please dont attack, Im just looking for some facts.

[Yelcamino]

Supposedly they're lighter and stronger than less expensive wheels.

[Scott Parkhurst]

What Herb said, plus you can get them with the exact width/backspacing you want to stuff as much tire under the car as possible.

Not too many 'off the shelf' cast wheels will give you that benefit- or the option to widen them or change backspacing in the future like many of the 3-pc. wheels can.

[parsonsj]

From an issue of Popular Hot Rodding in 2005:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec..._glossary.html

Excerpt:
WHY THREE-PIECE MODULAR WHEELS?
Kinesis forges all three-pieces of their modular wheel. A 3,500-ton press exerts 40,000 psi to push the aluminum center into place, removing porosity and aligning the grain into a radial shape. The result is a part that is lighter and stronger than a corresponding cast piece.

Lighter is better when it comes to wheels: they are unsprung weight. Unsprung weight is vehicle mass that isn't controlled by the springs. Wheels, tires, control arms and spindles are all unsprung weight. The weight acts like a pendulum and the more of it there is, the harder the suspension has to work. That makes for sluggish handling, difficult suspension tuning and parts that wear out faster. Wheels also act like flywheels, storing kinetic energy as the car is driven down the road. A heavier wheel stores more kinetic energy, which has to be absorbed by the brakes to stop the car. Just a few pounds can make a significant difference in stopping distance.

Kinesis wheels can be taken apart and pieces replaced if they get damaged or if the backspacing needs to be changed. Since I'm building a maximum-effort front suspension, I need to use the lightest and strongest wheels I can find for ultimate handling and braking performance. Like many things in the automotive world, the performance capabilities of these wheels really translate into jaw-dropping good looks.

jp

[jknight16]

There was a great thread on this subject that contained a lot of tech from distributors and others familiar with the manufacturing process. I'll search and see if I can find it ;)

Edit: Found it! https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=41381

[silver69camaro]

If you need a specific backspace or width, you don't really have a choice.

Also, if you're spending $50k+ on a build, spending $3k to $4k on wheels isn't too bad. What's worse is spending $1200 on a set of cheap wheels, then spending another $3500 on a nice set a year later because you weren't completely happy with the first set to begin with (or they didn't fit quite right). That's when wheels are expensive!

[buickfunnycar.com]

With Rushforth,there's a whole lot of style built into Jason's wheels,besides all the fine points already brought up.
Me thinks it's the selection of outstanding styles that put Rushforth on anyone's short list.

[Derek69SS]

All that's great IF the car is driven to a level that it would make any difference. For most, I think it's just about getting the right look. That's cool too, but not at my budget level... that money is better spent in other areas where my car is lacking performance.

[vintageracer]

You cannot justify $1000 per wheel ever. Although that does not mean you should not buy them!

There is no way at all to "justify" the whole car hobby and in particular the Pro-Touring segment other than "Me Gotta Have"!!!

If you like $1000 a a piece wheels buy them. It really does not make any difference if I or anyone else likes them as long as you do.

The SINGLE biggest item that will improve the looks and driving of a car is a great set of wheels.

Go for it!!!!

[ProdigyCustoms]

I accept full responsibility for all the Forgelines at RTTH's, they were clearly the wheel of choice. Between the promotion whore himself Bill Howell and myself, we have made the muscle car segment one of the biggest segments of Forgeline's street wheel business.

Some, SOME 3 piece wheels are quite a bit lighter then 2 piece welded or cast wheels. SOME wheels like Forgeline, Fikse, HRE, are built specifically to be very light and strong. I say SOME in big letter because NOT ALL 3 piece wheels are light.

Our resident Mr Parson's can explain moment or inertia, but to summarize, the lighter the wheel, the faster they will accelerate and faster they will stop with all else be equal. And when racing it is all about being fast.

Also, 3 piece wheels can be easily repaired if damaged. The Prodigy Customs / Forgeline winner at RTTH's actually killed one of his wheels in the autocross which could most likely be repaired with a rim shell if it was a 3 piece wheel.

As Derek said, do we NEED 3 piece wheels or driver instruction? Maybe some driver instruction would be good. But it sure does not hurt to have more wheel then we NEED!

Oh, and they look cool too.

[67 ls1 vert]

Yeah, thanks Frank!! I'm another victim of the Forgeline line.

Wheels can make or break the looks of any car.

[malbright]

Anyone know about nugen wheels?

[tazzz25906112]

I can tell you from a first hand experience that tooling or CNC machine time gets real expensive fast... Last year I built a custom set of 3 piece 17" Honeycomb style Pontiac rims.... Determined to achieve a certain look on my 1970 Formula,,, I went in into it green as can be,,,, and I paid large to produce the wheels....

From that experience I learned from the school of hard knocks and now have the ability to purchase Bands, and produce at a much more reasonable rate,,,, however when you consider what the real costs are it gets pretty scary quickly... It's all great to talk about bands, and two pcs vs three pcs but I'm not hearing anyone discuss the engineering, warehousing, "insurance", employees and design obsolescence costs to name a few.... Just because a wheel looks cool doesn't mean it's safe.... The cost to establish this is no small measure BTW....

Light and strong is a major focus though out the automotive aftermarket industry right now..... This considered Carbon Kustoms Ltd. is working on a wheel that we hope to have at the "Anvil Auto" booth at SEMA that will have a Carbon Composite wheel center.... The point to be had is,,,, the wheel industry is constantly evolving and these guys (the mfg sector) have too have a ROI... While it looks like all these guys are so big as manufactures,,,, you might be surprised at how short their product life span is and how few rims actually get retailed prior to the "end of a design/ wow factor life cycle" ..

So while we all want quality at a reasonable price (me included),,,,, we may want to ask ourselves if our expectations are matching the realities of production costs (in all senses when considered all in)????
Where an industry is generally making large returns, one person/company (or an employee with great plans for their future) or another usually will seek out an opportunity to undercut the market and come in with a lost cost (heavily discounted to current market pricing) alternative to take the lions share of the market place...

The market has not reacted in this typical fashion because I'd suggest to you that these are tough times,,, and the margin just isn't there for the discounts to happen perhaps????? Ask yourself, don't you think someone would try to steal the market share already if not??? Just food for thought is all I'm saying here....

[malbright]

That was supposed to be NewGen wheels... dang phones

[formula]

Haha albert's point was so good he had to make it three times.

Another point I want to bring, that Albert kinda skirted around, is just sheer build quality. Only a few people know that I had a different set of wheels on my car for, oh, about a week. I don't want to bad mouth any companies, but how many companies can you think of that make a billet aluminum snowflake wheel?

Anyway, The mix of subpar quality, getting my order wrong three times, and HORRIBLE customer service (they had the audacity to have their "head tech guy" call me and inform me that there was no way in hell I could possibly fit a 9.5 wheel under a 2nd gen and that I was dumb for even trying) that I just gave up and told them to not send me a fourth set--and they then charged me a restocking fee.

Working with frank and forgeline--I picked the wheels, they were exactly what I wanted, and they're damn near jewelry quality. In an industry that still has a lot of companies like the first, I felt like working with the second company was a lot closer to worth the money, at least.

[317millhand]

The cars I saw at RTTH were all super cool. I know about spending on stuff that nots absolutely necessary. $2500 for that serp. setup. $800 for a gas tank. etc. etc. I also understand the logic behind unsprung weight, but is there that much of a difference to matter in speed lets say between a forgeline and the overdone TT2's or a Billet Spec. streetlite. If I like something Im gonna save until I can buy it. I do think that the $4000wheels look awesome and I also think alot of $1600 wheels LOOK just as good. Im just curious is there that much enhanced performance of one wheel vs another when using the same tires and suspension. Im also aware of brake fitment issues on cheaper wheels.


On a side note, I had a blast watching all the cars there at RTTH and hopefully Ill be able to play next year if work and my finances pick up. Im looking to paint this winter once I decide on a color. Frank, whats the color on the Bull Run Chevelle? That is sort of the maroon color Im looking for.

[class67]

All that's great IF the car is driven to a level that it would make any difference. For most, I think it's just about getting the right look. That's cool too, but not at my budget level... that money is better spent in other areas where my car is lacking performance.

I think you just answered your own question, if you cannot notice that much of a difference....spend the money elsewhere that you might!

[formula]

The cars I saw at RTTH were all super cool. I know about spending on stuff that nots absolutely necessary. $2500 for that serp. setup. $800 for a gas tank. etc. etc. I also understand the logic behind unsprung weight, but is there that much of a difference to matter in speed lets say between a forgeline and the overdone TT2's or a Billet Spec. streetlite. If I like something Im gonna save until I can buy it. I do think that the $4000wheels look awesome and I also think alot of $1600 wheels LOOK just as good. Im just curious is there that much enhanced performance of one wheel vs another when using the same tires and suspension. Im also aware of brake fitment issues on cheaper wheels.


On a side note, I had a blast watching all the cars there at RTTH and hopefully Ill be able to play next year if work and my finances pick up. Im looking to paint this winter once I decide on a color. Frank, whats the color on the Bull Run Chevelle? That is sort of the maroon color Im looking for.

To your question about how much of a difference the wheel weight can really make-- How far into the physics do you want to go? Because we can talk pretty far into the rabbit hole trying to get a firm grasp on what sort of effects you'll see in each different performance metric by changing weight.

As a simple test, though--Spin around as fast as you can with your arms stretched out to your sides, but nothing in your hands. Then spin around as fast as you can with your arms stretched out and a 5lb barbell in your hands. Now imagine that your wheels are spinning at, say, 500 RPM at high speed with or without that extra 5lb weight.

Now, stretch both of your arms out in front of you, and move them up and down as fast as you can. Then do the same with the weights. Now imagine your suspension having to do that, all freakin' day, 2-3 times a second.

[TnBlkC230WZ]

Why spend $1000 on a wheel? Because you can't take it with you and I'm not leaving it for the kids. Although my son may get the car.

[elitecustombody]

Wes, which wheel company you had problems with?