Adding a lower Front Spoiler

[AM.MSCL]

I have been thinking about adding a front lower air damn spoiler like what the Camaro had (Camaro Lower front spoiler) for a little bit of added look to my 69 Firebird.
I have also been wondering it this would help or hurt air flow through the radiator by changing the negative Engine bay pressure to much?
My thoughts it that it should help otherwise why would it have been installed on the camaro?
My bird sits about 1-1/2 to 2" lower then stock if this matters in the thought process.


I am running A/C and a Oil cooler. Oil cooler is mounted in lower passenger opening (you can see one of the bolt heads).




What are your guys thoughts?
Thanks
Ray

[MrQuick]

theres alot of grill there, should not hurt at all.

[chickn]

I have been running a 69 camaro front spoiler on my lowered 69 firebird for many years without any problems. It does not even come close to overheating.

[67zo6Camaro]

Im running a modified front spoiler on my 67 Camaro Convt. I have not had any problems. Ck out my PT garage album. see the "keeping it under 3000lbs" folder. From what I have read and learned is that there are numerous things that could effect air flow, however, the lower spoiler typically (depending on shape and location) helps create a negative air presssure under the front part of the car. This in-turn draws air down from the engine bay area. The turbulance currently under the car without the spoiler confuses,,,the direct path for the air to go out. Now depending whats in the way of air flow effect how your radiator heat makes it way out from the engine compartment and from under the car.

Thats my 3 cents
Brett

[John Wright]

I believe front spoilers help keep it's cool while sitting in traffic....keeps from recirculating the hot air back through the radiator over and over.....

[AM.MSCL]

I have also found that I do not have the lower baffle plate that goes between the front lower valance and the radiator support. I am not having a heating driving around; I have not had to sit still in traffic longer then a normal light yet. Sitting at one cycle of a light has not produce any heat issues. Now driving the car on the highway for 15 miles with engine spinning at 3000 rpms will cause the temp to slow get to just under the 210 mark. It will drop back to 190-195 when I get back to normal street driving where the rpms are 2000 or less.

[AM.MSCL]

Im running a modified front spoiler on my 67 Camaro Convt. I have not had any problems. Ck out my PT garage album. see the "keeping it under 3000lbs" folder. From what I have read and learned is that there are numerous things that could effect air flow, however, the lower spoiler typically (depending on shape and location) helps create a negative air presssure under the front part of the car. This in-turn draws air down from the engine bay area. The turbulance currently under the car without the spoiler confuses,,,the direct path for the air to go out. Now depending whats in the way of air flow effect how your radiator heat makes it way out from the engine compartment and from under the car.

Thats my 3 cents
Brett

Brett
I was thinking of eventually doing something like you did with the front spoiler also. I like the look of the spoiler running up the side a little bit like the 70-73 TAs.
Ray

[67zo6Camaro]

Thanks Ray,

This was an effort to direct air around the large front tire contact patch. I run 265/17 on the front. I read several articles on air flow to try and get a better under standing on what really happens.

[67zo6Camaro]

I have also found that I do not have the lower baffle plate that goes between the front lower valance and the radiator support. I am not having a heating driving around; I have not had to sit still in traffic longer then a normal light yet. Sitting at one cycle of a light has not produce any heat issues. Now driving the car on the highway for 15 miles with engine spinning at 3000 rpms will cause the temp to slow get to just under the 210 mark. It will drop back to 190-195 when I get back to normal street driving where the rpms are 2000 or less.

Try running your car without a thermostate for a short period. Hopefully you will get the reverse on the temp range. Cooler at highway speeds and hot when in traffic. This will help determind if you have a cooling problem or an air flow problem at highway speeds. Keep in mind, if you have a after market radiator with a restrictive fan shroud. It could be that at slow speeds air flows smoother threw the shroud with the fan, but at high speeds the air can't make it threw fast enough.

Thats my 3 cents
Brett

[rrunner68]

Try running your car without a thermostate for a short period. Hopefully you will get the reverse on the temp range. Cooler at highway speeds and hot when in traffic. This will help determind if you have a cooling problem or an air flow problem at highway speeds. Keep in mind, if you have a after market radiator with a restrictive fan shroud. It could be that at slow speeds air flows smoother threw the shroud with the fan, but at high speeds the air can't make it threw fast enough.

Thats my 3 cents
Brett

Very true. I had a super custom shroud on my radiator and it cost me 14 degrees at crusing/freeway speeds. I'm still woring on over-engineering the crap out of it, so we shall see.

[AM.MSCL]

Currently I have a stock BB radiator with the Lincoln Mark VIII electric fan pulling air through it and the condenser.

[mc84_zz4]

I have been running a 69 camaro front spoiler on my lowered 69 firebird for many years without any problems. It does not even come close to overheating.

A friend of mine has the same, basically same temps you live with (here=San Antonio, TX). .
His car gets plenty of use, and traffic is hell sometimes. He's running a 400 tweaked a bit, mechanical fan clutch, stock sized aluminum radiator w/stock shroud, 2004R tranny, and tranny cooler.
Here's an old pic before it was lowered some more

[SamHatco]

I have also found that I do not have the lower baffle plate that goes between the front lower valance and the radiator support. I am not having a heating driving around; I have not had to sit still in traffic longer then a normal light yet. Sitting at one cycle of a light has not produce any heat issues. Now driving the car on the highway for 15 miles with engine spinning at 3000 rpms will cause the temp to slow get to just under the 210 mark. It will drop back to 190-195 when I get back to normal street driving where the rpms are 2000 or less.

Pontiacs are notorious for running a little hot. Sounds like that is pretty normal. What engine rear end are you running. You might try a lower thermostat.

Sam

[AM.MSCL]

I have a 160 thermostat with a 185 on 170 off Fan switch. The only time I have temp issues is on the highway when I am turning 3000 rpms for a extended length of time. Even then it takes a while to start creeping up in temps with the A/C off; if the A/C is on then it will creep up quickly. In both cases it gets to 195-200 and holds with 95 degree weather. When I drive around normal streets of stop light to stop light it will holds at 180 or less. I have never been in true rush hour traffic where I have had to sit and idle for 15-20 minutes and move a few feet in this car. I usually am able to avoid that type of traffic. I am planning to get the headers coated to help reduce engine temps first, add the lower baffle plate now that I managed to get one, and next spring hope to add a TKO600 so I have an overdrive and drop the highway RPMS down to 2000.

[AM.MSCL]

I think I have 3.42 rear end gears. I have 255/45/17 rear tires and Muncie 4 speed tranny. 3200 RPMs at 70, 2600 RPMs at 60.
Also running down the Highway someone mentioned pushing the clutch in while doing that speed and see what the temps do; well they start to go down just a bit. It was then recommend to do the waterpump plate trick of getting it closer to the veins.

[Bryce]

I have a 160 thermostat with a 185 on 170 off Fan switch. The only time I have temp issues is on the highway when I am turning 3000 rpms for a extended length of time. Even then it takes a while to start creeping up in temps with the A/C off; if the A/C is on then it will creep up quickly. In both cases it gets to 195-200 and holds with 95 degree weather. When I drive around normal streets of stop light to stop light it will holds at 180 or less. I have never been in true rush hour traffic where I have had to sit and idle for 15-20 minutes and move a few feet in this car. I usually am able to avoid that type of traffic. I am planning to get the headers coated to help reduce engine temps first, add the lower baffle plate now that I managed to get one, and next spring hope to add a TKO600 so I have an overdrive and drop the highway RPMS down to 2000.

I kinda had the same issue with my falcon. When I put on the teardrop hood, with two giant vents in the back, I drop the engine compartment temps about 20*F. Then I removed my thermostat and now I hold 160*F on the freeway all day long. I guess I just needed more flow through the radiator, less restriction.

[MrQuick]

sounds like normal operation to me. 210 isn't hot for an engine to run. You can try a 195 t stat to give the radiator and fan a chance to cool whats in it.

With a 160 unit the t stat isn't closing allowing the fans to cool whats in the radiator. Its just flowing free and your fans are having to try to catch up. Sounds like your set up wants to run at 180.
Vince

[MonzaRacer]

OK for the last time(till somebody has an issue agian) 200-210 steady IS NOT HOT. infact your engine is getting thermally efficient at that temp, if it goes over that and boils over then your having issues.
also if you have atrue Pontiac pull the water pump and check the seperator plate and seals as when these are degraded they can cause heat issues.
Another thing that will make Pontiacs eun hot is retarded timing. My 400 I ran 1nitial of around 12 to 14 , basically till it stopped liking it I kept advancing it, wound up in the 16 to 17 BTDC, run light advance springs on stock HEI with stock weights, and hook your advance up to manifold vacuum and it ran good and got good mileage.
When I built new engine I boo booed I put in a short duration cam then used high compression heads, ooppss, thne had to pull timing out of that one, and it wouldnt rev past 3500 without spark knock even with water injection.

[John Wright]

Just out of curiosity, where do you have your water temp gauge sensor located on the engine? In the head? or up in the manifold near the t'stat?

[John Wright]

BTW, you want to monitor the water temp for a gauge, so the sensor needs to be in the manifold near the t'stat. For a dash light, you want to put the sensor in the head.