front a arms on frame

[67 ls1 vert]

I'm using ats spindles and spc upper control arms with 550 springs on a stock sub frame. I installed the engine and trans and put the car on the ground for the first time in a looooong time. The upper a arms are still against the frame???? Whats the problem here? It's like there isn't an engine in the car the way it sits.

Did I install something wrong? My friend and I stood on the frame horns and jumped a little and it barley moved. Do I need to cut the springs? Tyler sold me the coils way back and I installed the front clip right after I received the parts but just now got some weight in the car.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/aarm-1.jpg

[MrQuick]

im guessing your front sheet metal and radiator are not in the car yet?


may have to trim to get the desired ride height. after you fully assemble the car
vince

[67 ls1 vert]

Like I said, my friend and I stood on the frame horns. together over 500 lbs. I don't think that front clip weighs that much.

[MrQuick]

I'm using ats spindles and spc upper control arms with 550 springs on a stock sub frame. I installed the engine and trans and put the car on the ground for the first time in a looooong time. The upper a arms are still against the frame???? Whats the problem here? It's like there isn't an engine in the car the way it sits.



Did I install something wrong? My friend and I stood on the frame horns and jumped a little and it barley moved. Do I need to cut the springs? Tyler sold me the coils way back and I installed the front clip right after I received the parts but just now got some weight in the car.








Like I said, my friend and I stood on the frame horns. together over 500 lbs. I don't think that front clip weighs that much.





I didn't bother assuming your weight.



like i said, I wouldn't cut anything without fully assembling the car.

[67 ls1 vert]

yeah, I will wait until the car is completed to do any modifying. I was just trying to figure out if there is something wrong with it. Sometime you can look at something for a long time scratching your head and someone else looks at it and see's the problem right away.

[MrQuick]

It happens all the time.
I can't tell you how many springs we have swapped out because people felt it didn't sit right. Then they cut to a desired ride height, next thing you know its on the bump stops.

I believe it is how the weight is actually distributed around the suspension.

I can't explain it but it happens.


curious....what was the static height of the spring? How tall before installation? 11"-12"?

[67 ls1 vert]

not sure what they measure?

[LowBuckX]

are your bushing bolts loose? you should tighten them at ride heigt. That could be holding the car up also. Loosen the bolts and jounce the car and see where it is at before you tighten them up.

[67 ls1 vert]

The ats a-arms bushings are really easy to move and the lowers have delrim bushings. Before I installed the coil, both a arms and spindle moved super easy.

[ProdigyCustoms]

550 on a LS car? Pretty strong. Are they short springs?

[67 ls1 vert]

they were really easy to install. I should probably remove them and measure them I guess.

[ProdigyCustoms]

On a non supercharge LS we would use a 450 tops, maybe even a 350 spring (but not with that heavy blower), 550s are iron big block rate

[Bryce]

springs will settle. also roll the car around the garage back and forth. Sometimes the tires can be held in a positive caster postion, this can hold the car up as well.

dont modify the spring until you at least drive the car.

also cutting a coil will increase the spring rate. If you remove 1 coil from a 10 coil spring then you will increase the spring rate by 10%. so a 550 is now a 605. the car will sit lower but be a harder ride.

[67 ls1 vert]

Good info Bryce. thanks. I will wait until the whole car is back together and see how is sits then.

Frank, the engine is an iron 6 ltr with a KB on it. I know it's not as heavy as a BBC but not as light as an aluminum lsx with no power adders.

[exwestracer]

If they are 550s it will take 1100 lb to lower the front end 1 inch, so it's no wonder you and your buddy didn't have much effect on it. Remember, if you cut the springs they get even stiffer. On your Camaro, each coil would be worth 10-12% increase in rate, so I'm not sure I'd go that route...

[67 ls1 vert]

well, what should start out at? I plan of doing some auto crossing for fun and looking to get a spring that will get me close. I know it will take trial and error to get the right ones. What brand should I get and how much do they run? It's been a while since I bought some.

[Bryce]

I like afco springs, they have a newer material that yields a smaller diameter coil; therfore, less weight! coilover springs are about 30% lighter.

[67 ls1 vert]

cool, i"ll look into it. Thanks.

[exwestracer]

well, what should start out at? I plan of doing some auto crossing for fun and looking to get a spring that will get me close. I know it will take trial and error to get the right ones. What brand should I get and how much do they run? It's been a while since I bought some.

Can you get a finished front axle weight from someone who has the same engine in the same car? Even if you have to add the weight of the SC separately, a starting point would help.

Then set the car at desired ride height with the front springs out. This is not weight sensitive, so don't worry about the car not being together. Measure the available spring installed height (a-arm perch to frame perch). Lets say you have 10"

Whatever the total axle weight is (say 1500 lb), subtract 150-200 lb for unsprung weight (depends on tire/wheel combo and brakes...if you have the ability to weigh a complete front suspension/ tire assembly, do that and don't guess). So we have 1300lb supported by the springs when the springs are 10" long. Each spring is carrying 650lb, so we could use an 11" spring with a 650 rate, or a 12" spring with a 325 rate, etc. Lots of circle track racing mfrs sell rated coils in stock diameters and various lengths, so you should be able to get exactly what you need without cutting.

I'm reading more and more about so-and-so's "lowering springs" not ending up at the correct ride height. There's no substitute for knowing and buying exactly what you need...

[67 ls1 vert]

There is a guy on this board that goes by the screen name Patrick, he has an aluminum KB engine in a 68 camaro. I wonder if I can get his to give me some info?