What Spring Rate for Road Racing

[Gitter Dun]

I have a '69 Camaro With Global West arms and conventional spring set up. If you were strictly road racing car what rate spring would you use. I am contemplating 850 lb right now.

[MrQuick]

depends, how does your current set up feel?


vince

[Gitter Dun]

depends, how does your current set up feel?


vince

I,m running about 715 lb(cut a coil off of 650 lb) and it felt fine road racing but pushed in my first ever autocross.

[LSx_88_Ciera]

Going to a heavier front spring will make it push even more to loosen it up you need a softer front spring/bar or a stiffer rear spring/bar.

[Gitter Dun]

Going to a heavier front spring will make it push even more to loosen it up you need a softer front spring/bar or a stiffer rear spring/bar.

Hmmm... Global West is telling me to go to a 800 lb spring. I've tried a higher rate leaf spring and I was too loose.

[LSx_88_Ciera]

Are they aware that the car is pushing?
I don't know why they would suggest a stiffer front considering going softer on the end that needs traction is tuning 101.
Do you have provisions to adjust the rate of your rear bar?
Have you tried reducing air pressure in the front tires a pound or 2?
Is the push on entry, mid, exit?

[Gitter Dun]

Are they aware that the car is pushing?
I don't know why they would suggest a stiffer front considering going softer on the end that needs traction is tuning 101.
Do you have provisions to adjust the rate of your rear bar?
Have you tried reducing air pressure in the front tires a pound or 2?
Is the push on entry, mid, exit?

I'm thinking autocross and road racing are two different animals. Slow speed thrusts into tight turns with alot of torque when auto crossing, and in road racing, a continuos flow to where it is much easier to set up for a turn and have chassis pointed in right direction.

Although, I was not prepared for the autocross event(due to thought it was gonna rain and then last minute jumped in my car and showed up late)so I didn't bring my air tank or tire pressure gauge and when I borrowed a pressure gauge noticed i could have taken a few pounds out of front tires.

[zbugger]

You could be ok right now up front. What leafs are you running out back? You could run an adjustable rear bar. I know Global West doesn't recommend one, but it IS a tuning device. Adjustability is key. And if you find you don't need it, you can always disconnect it or take it off.

[Gitter Dun]

You could be ok right now up front. What leafs are you running out back? You could run an adjustable rear bar. I know Global West doesn't recommend one, but it IS a tuning device. Adjustability is key. And if you find you don't need it, you can always disconnect it or take it off.

I'm running Global West rear leafs and had them de arch them an extra inch. I starte with Hotchkis rear leafs and they had me loose as hell. I think the stikier the tires and the more power you definitely need a rear bar contrary to what Global West says. I'm due for front springs cuz my front left is sagging from road course abuse so i was thinking of stiffer springs. Guess I'll find out at Buttonwillow June 5th. Who makes an adjustable rear bar?

[LSx_88_Ciera]

Who makes an adjustable rear bar?

Hellwig

[John Wright]

I agree with LSx 88,

Generally you want to soften up the end that doesn't have grip....ie. the front is pushing, so you would take some rate away from that end or add some rate to the rear. Depending on how much it's pushing.

[Gitter Dun]

I agree with LSx 88,

Generally you want to soften up the end that doesn't have grip....ie. the front is pushing, so you would take some rate away from that end or add some rate to the rear. Depending on how much it's pushing.

Thanks guys, your input definitely influenced my decision. I will probably stay with the same rate spring up front rather than go to 800-850 lb and start shopping for the Helwig sway bar.

If it all goes to hell I'll just blame you guys, LOL. JK

Anybody have any photos of a Hellwig Install? Do I use the solid or hollow bar?

[zbugger]

You can use the hollow bar to save a little weight. I know the Hotchkis rear bar is three way adjustable and the install is pretty simple. The Hellwig should be similar.

[Gitter Dun]

You can use the hollow bar to save a little weight. I know the Hotchkis rear bar is three way adjustable and the install is pretty simple. The Hellwig should be similar.

Cool thanks. I just pulled springs and one is 1/2" shorter than other. Thats what you get from 3 years of hard driving from a set of global west springs. I started getting slight tire rub lok to lok on fender on sag side. Good side spring length is 12" and I'm running 275 40 17's with stock subframe. Now I,m going to see if Eiback has springs I need, if not, back to global west.

[zbugger]

I hate Eibach springs. Especially in a muscle car application. Don't ask me why, but I do. I'd recommend going back to Gobal, or even try a Hotchkis spring out. Quite a few here have had success with Hotchkis front springs. I think Mary has been running Hotchkis front with Global Cat5 rears with plenty of success. Oh, AND a rear bar. My car is slowly becoming a copy....

[Gitter Dun]

I hate Eibach springs. Especially in a muscle car application. Don't ask me why, but I do. I'd recommend going back to Gobal, or even try a Hotchkis spring out. Quite a few here have had success with Hotchkis front springs. I think Mary has been running Hotchkis front with Global Cat5 rears with plenty of success. Oh, AND a rear bar. My car is slowly becoming a copy....

Regardless, and maybe luckily, Eibach didn't have what I was looking for. Global West want's $189 for springs. I hope this doesn't turn into you get what you pay for but I went into Afco's web site and found 700 lb springs for under $50 each and purchased them. At that price I might pick up a couple of more spring rates and due some test and tune.

I think the adjustable rear bar is important especially because I think a road race tune is different from an autocross tune.

[676869addict]

i'm running global west cat 5 front and rear. front is coil over adjustable w 650 lb spring rate. rear has like a heim joint welded in to flatten tire when corning hard. i couldn't be more happier have a small leak at steering box(agr variable) and rear pinion to housing slight drip. working them out, cant wait to get to the track.

[Gitter Dun]

i'm running global west cat 5 front and rear. front is coil over adjustable w 650 lb spring rate. rear has like a heim joint welded in to flatten tire when corning hard. i couldn't be more happier have a small leak at steering box(agr variable) and rear pinion to housing slight drip. working them out, cant wait to get to the track.

I am organizing a Buttunwillow track day for June 5th with NCRC. $99 for 5 20/25 minute sessions. We would love to see you there.

[Vegas69]

I'm thinking autocross and road racing are two different animals. Slow speed thrusts into tight turns with alot of torque when auto crossing, and in road racing, a continuos flow to where it is much easier to set up for a turn and have chassis pointed in right direction.

Although, I was not prepared for the autocross event(due to thought it was gonna rain and then last minute jumped in my car and showed up late)so I didn't bring my air tank or tire pressure gauge and when I borrowed a pressure gauge noticed i could have taken a few pounds out of front tires.

Personally, I feel autocross is much harder to get a good working car. From brakes to feel. I really like the feel of my car on the road course. Going fast in autocross is always going to be a compromise. I really think autocross calls for a really stiff car to keep the body roll out of it. You watch that TCI camaro. That thing looks suspension less. It didn't fair so great on the big track set up that way.

[Gitter Dun]

Personally, I feel autocross is much harder to get a good working car. From brakes to feel. I really like the feel of my car on the road course. Going fast in autocross is always going to be a compromise. I really think autocross calls for a really stiff car to keep the body roll out of it. You watch that TCI camaro. That thing looks suspension less. It didn't fair so great on the big track set up that way.

I couldn't agree with you more, and I'm not willing to compromise my road course set up for an autocross set up, but I think an easy fix/compromise would be rear adjustability with sway bar.

[Vegas69]

I couldn't agree with you more, and I'm not willing to compromise my road course set up for an autocross set up, but I think an easy fix/compromise would be rear adjustability with sway bar.

Without a doubt. I just put a rear bar on mine and it makes a world of difference. Mine has 3 holes for adjustment. The cloest hole is useless since it's way to much. The middle hole really makes the car super loose and the front hole is really nice on the road course. I haven't tried autocross this way yet but feel I can adjust the feel with tire pressure and shock adjustments. I'll find out tomorrow. What are you running in the back?

[Gitter Dun]

I'm running Global West springs, QA-1 shocks, and Hotchkis sway bar. I really liked it on the road course, ran 1:56 at Infineon running the Nascar chute configuration on Toyo RA-1's, 3400 lbs, 400/400 to the rear wheels. The front felt really good also, was running 650 lb springs and cut a coil off of them. Doug at Global West told me cutting a coil would add 10% to spring rate so I figure about 715 lbs. Felt a hair of a push but I just ordered 700 lb springs so hopefully that will be corrected.

Just ordered an aluminum block engine, should arrive in 3 weeks. Should take 100 lbs off front of car. With all other past weight reductions I should be at 3270 lbs with me in the car.

Cant wait for Buttonwillow on June 5th. We'll be running #13 cw configuration and I will be timing my laps.

[slow4dr]

Personally, I feel autocross is much harder to get a good working car. From brakes to feel. I really like the feel of my car on the road course. Going fast in autocross is always going to be a compromise. I really think autocross calls for a really stiff car to keep the body roll out of it. You watch that TCI camaro. That thing looks suspension less. It didn't fair so great on the big track set up that way.


I wouldn't use the TCI Camaros performance on the big track to compare autocross vs road course suspension settings. I think the powertrain played a bigger role in that variance than the suspension did. That car ran a 1:57 with a first time road course driver using an engine making a whopping 347whp through a 700R4.

[Vegas69]

I meant to put that in my post about him being down on power. It sure does look racey in autocross.