pro-touring '68 firebird...on a budget

[68firebird]

if your drivable friday, let me know. There is a huge car meet right over the R.I. line in Mendon mass

I'm in myrtle beach right now, will be home this Sunday so won't be able to meet up, plus the car just Isn't ready yet. Still have to find out what's wrong in the front end. Thanks though!

[68firebird]

well I made an appt with my mechanic for next thursday to do an alignment and hopefully find the clunky/banging noise I'm hearing, I can't seem to locate it. also gonna have him tune the motor, can't seem to get the studder to go away when you romp on it.

[dusterbd13]

sometimes a freesh set of eyes is money well spent. keep up the gopod work, and enjoy the fruits of your labor for a while.

[sixgunsblazing]

Nice Wheels, not many people can ID them :)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/08/73formulaJPG-1.jpg

[68firebird]

Nice Wheels, not many people can ID them :)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/08/73formulaJPG-1.jpg

Hahaha, nice rims! Great looking car!

[68firebird]

power washed, cleaned, and painted under the hood today with can spray paint and primer, not show car quality, but wayyyyyy better than what it looked like. got a bit of overspray on the top of the hood, I'll have to clean that this week. I can't wait to get the car to my mechanic this week.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/B88C0C0E39794379ACBC573C3695592153510000-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/0632BDB3BBC444739EC2E1B7899CA8C153510000-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/32E23DD132284746889B9F9E38E525A953510000-1.jpg

[Wraith]

Looks waaay better, gotta love rattle can detailing!

[68firebird]

ok, project super low budget is at the mechanic today, went in for an alignment, double check my front end work, tune the motor and install the subframe connectors. finally got approval from the wife to spend some money getting this stuff done. can't wait to get it back and see how she rides.

on another note, I had a buddy give me a brand new performer rpm intake, I currently run a regular performer with a 600cfm edelbrock carb. Is it worth it to put the rpm intake on? its mostly a stock chevy small block.

[dusterbd13]

the short answer is yes, and then some.

its a shocking difference it performance between the two.

[cheapthrillz]

the short answer is yes, and then some.

its a shocking difference it performance between the two.

Not sure why anybody bought the performers in the first place.... weight savings? lol

[68firebird]

awesome, thanks guys, on it will go then.

[dusterbd13]

do it before paying to have your carb dialed in. it will change ALL the settings due to different airflow characteristics.

[68firebird]

do it before paying to have your carb dialed in. it will change ALL the settings due to different airflow characteristics.

yep, kinda figured that, but its too late, already been tuned. I'll do it over the winter, for now I'll drive it as is, been off the road long enough. I'm heading to pick it up in a bit from the mechanic, kinda excited. LOL.

[68firebird]

Got her home, rides much better now. the clunking sound ended up being the inside wheel weight hitting the tie rod, harder when the wheels were cut of course, the rims are extremely close to the tie rod, so the rims will have to get replaced soon. they were temporary anyways, but might be forced to get some earlier.

[68firebird]

Ok, took the car for a nice ride around the neighborhood today, rides pretty darn good. but the smell, its god awful. I started to think that it may not be running rich, it might be burning oil. so I pulled all the plugs this afternoon and ALL of them were oil fouled, oil all the way up the threads on most. Is it possible that the rings are bad on every piston? or could it be leaking in from the cylinder head? how would I check?

[dusterbd13]

may also be sucking in from the intake valley.

best way to check would be to rent a leakdown tester from aurtozone, or buy one from harbor freight. it will be pretty easy to tell where the air is coming out of the cylender. if its not coming out much. then you knopw to look at the intake gaskets.

michael

[68firebird]

may also be sucking in from the intake valley.

best way to check would be to rent a leakdown tester from aurtozone, or buy one from harbor freight. it will be pretty easy to tell where the air is coming out of the cylender. if its not coming out much. then you knopw to look at the intake gaskets.

michael

I just replaced the intake gaskets a few months back. I think I'm just gonna replace the valve seals, I haven't started this up too much over the last 6 or 7 years, I'm thinkin they all dried out and cracked. Its sort of an easy fix and inexpensive fix, so I'm gonna try that first.

[LeighP]

I would have thought valve seals, or PCV system....if the PCV is hooked through the aircleaner, and it shows no traces of oil contamination, guess that leaves the valve seals as the likely culpret.

[rohrt]

I had fouled plugs like you describe.

I first did a compression check and also bought the garbage frieght leak down test and all was fine. Talking to a machine shop they said the rubber umbrella sheilds that most people put on are terrible and just end up pumping oil into the intake.

I had the head gone through for a roller cam and had new guides and viton positive lock seals put in. No more oil on the spark plugs now.

[68firebird]

My mechanic told me not to touch anything at the moment. since its been sitting so long without running he told me to log 100 miles or so of driving and see if its still doing it. so I'm trying to get it insured and registered before the snow starts hitting the ground.

on a side note, I'm not gonna be able to afford the lowering leaf springs for the rear at the moment, so I've decided to use lowering blocks until I can afford it, are there any brand of blocks out there that anyone can recommend? I know they aren't a recommended lowering option, but it will be temporary until I can get the $450 up for the hotchkis leafs.

Oh, and also is there a set of headers that fit a small block chevy that tuck up closer to the floor of F-bodies? the drivers side header collector flange hangs low and is about an inch and a half off the ground now and the rear isn't lowered yet, I've already scrapped the flange during a ride.

[68firebird]

Here's a comparison of the stance when it went into hibernation and when it finally came out.

Before:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/694838453-1.jpg

After:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/6BC0657966B54E2D95C6F7D73072159C12496000-1.jpg

[68firebird]

taking the day off tomorrow and getting her insured and registered!!!!! might just make it to a cruise night before they all stop after all!

[68firebird]

registered and insured the bird on friday. took it for a ride yesterday and the smoking problem seems to have gotten really worse in just a few miles. It was pinging, then when I came to a stop light it would smoke for a bit, then taper down, but it really smelt bad. I'm gonna have to pull the heads off and check them out.

[Hotwhilz]

Sorry to hear that, what color smoke? Blueish, black or white?

[68firebird]

Sorry to hear that, what color smoke? Blueish, black or white?

seems white.

[captainofiron]

hopefully its just some condensation. Water vapor is a natural product from combustion.

it could possibly be a head gasket though.

hoping for the best

[68firebird]

hopefully its just some condensation. Water vapor is a natural product from combustion.

it could possibly be a head gasket though.

hoping for the best

yea, I'm just gonna pull the heads and replace the head gaskets and go from there. its easy enough to do. I have the new intake to put on anyway.

[68firebird]

Well after some investigating last night, I've got some very small amounts of antifreeze leaking from the rear of the head gasket on the drivers side onto the back of the motor. I wipe it off and a small amount starts streaming down again. I haven't checked the pass side, but either way both heads will have to come off. might as well get a small valve job done and freshen the heads up while they are off.

[Buryingthesun]

Glad to hear its driving, sorry to hear about the leak. If you need a hand I have a leak down tester and a compression tester. Pm me and I can take a look for you

[68firebird]

Look what poured out of the collector after i unbolted it

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/FCBCD8B0C0164CF0B530ABE3481FD09C19400000-1.jpg

Looked like it was mostly at cylinder 5

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/4E765B9AC4524C609012A198DCA9792619400000-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/416C97CE2AFE40E8875666C8197F28F119400000-1.jpg

I might just get new head gaskets and valve seals but leave the rest of the head alone. I've got a 350 4 bolt block that's been laying around that I should start building up.

[68firebird]

Got mostly everything I need to put it all back together. New head gaskets, new head bolts, new valve seals, new gaskets for intake and exhaust, and a new 10 in. air cleaner ( the new rpm manifold is taller so the 14 inch would hit the hood bracing at the back). Valve seals on one head complete. Have to pick up a heater hose fitting for the new intake tomorrow and of course an oil filter and oil as well as coolant. Hoping to get time to get it back together by the weekend.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/965F32F5DC804C4AAD2787F065745F8461990000-1.jpg

[68firebird]

Small steps. heads are back on.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/8BF1CD623DE74F11AAF3F59195C0054F77480000-1.jpg

And new intake is ready to go too.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/FBD4793132B845F1B1A9F1F78789E79D77480000-1.jpg

[68firebird]

got the motor buttoned up, just need to set the valve lash, I haven't done it yet because I never have and I'm a tad nervous LOL.

also installed lowering blocks in the back. I had to use a small spacer to move the wheel out a tad or else the the shock mount on the lower perch would be hitting the inner part of the rim. I don't have the proper backspacing yet, so I have to do it this way until fund roll in for proper stuff. The spacer is 5/16, I could probably get away with a smaller one, and most likely will so my lugs get more of a bit on the studs. I can't wait to get it out of the garage and see what it looks like. (and yes, I don't have the outside u-bolts in yet, I have to make the upper holes a bit bigger so the threaded part goes in the lower perch easier, I had to find my bigger drill for that, which I just found)

oh, and I definitely need to get some shorty headers now, measurement from ground to flange (or bottom of the header for that matter) is just under 2.5 inches on the drivers side. I just keep opening more and more cans of worms here.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/168A99FE84B844DF866DA8923CBC954913225000-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/BDC95863D4174242B5B1F9C4A037CB9C13225000-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/347327DA0CE24B0A8C4F3E9BCD5E947413225000-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/0CBEA1A9A59847E1A7D9FF818FAD580D13225000-1.jpg

[68firebird]

well, I finished installing the blocks last night, so thats done, then I tried doing my valve lash adjustment, which didn't go so good. Now its running like a total piece of doggy doo doo. I must have tightened them too much. so tomorrow I'll back them all off and tighten each nut down to 13 turns like I originally did when it seemed to run fine.

[68firebird]

re-adjusted the rocker nuts last night and it still runs very bad, basically what I did last night changed nothing. Actually it doesn't run at all. doesn't want to start. I spray starting fluid in the carb it starts but runs extremely rough, almost violently. I'm wondering if somehow I screwed the timing up, but I don't know how I would have done that, I never pulled the distributer out to do the valve lash adjustment!!! I'm stumped. If anybody has any input it would be greatly appreciated, as I'm ready to beat the fenders in with a hammer!!!!!

[68400BIRD]

Sounds like the adjustments on the valves are still to tight. Pull the valve covers so you can see the top of the valve stems. When both valves are completely closed adjust the push rod so you can still spin it in your fingers. Once you have them all done get some oil splash guards and start it up with the covers off and adjust them one at a time. Loosen them until they tick when they stop ticking give them a quarter turn. It's been a while since I have worked on a sb chevy so I know there is a easier way to adjust the valves but I don't have my notes anymore.

[68400BIRD]

Check and recheck your firing order. Have someone hold a timing light while you are cranking it over and set your initial timing.

[68firebird]

Ok, thanks 68400bird, I'll give it a try this weekend, maybe tonight if I get time. I plan on putting the motor at TDC and then seeing where the rotor is under the cap, maybe somehow that got messed up, don't know how, but I guess anything is possible. My dad also recommended adjusting lash they way you said with the covers off, but I really wasn't a fan of hearing that oil will splash everywhere. If I figure out what the problem is I'll be on and let you know. Its soooooo close to being ready to drive around a bit before it has to go away for winter, and all these little things keep lingering and holding it up!!

[68firebird]

It WAS because the valves were too tight, thanks 68400bird. I'm gonna have to adjust the lash because its tapping now, but I'm excited again that's it started and is running smooth. Thanks a bunch!

[68firebird]

Got her out of the garage today, I think I've got the valves decent, might need a tad more adjusting, I'll drive it a bit then do another adjustment.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/10/1BDD230DAC364E2AABB947E1C885364240680000-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/10/DC72D9D5A7044BC7BA225977878BACB640680000-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/10/5786ED0F36224AC5840A00DA408D522740680000-1.jpg

[68firebird]

Brake help please!! already posted in brake section, but I figured I'd post here too.

I've got LS1 brakes on the front of my firebird, I've got a new disc/drum master and prop valve, I have finally taken the car for a few rides and the front brakes stay locked, its happened the last 2 times I've taken the car out. I THINK that the calipers release after the car sits. It did it to me on friday night, sat all weekend till today and it did it again, raised the front of the car and can't spin either wheel. the back wheels seem to spin freely. any ideas?

[LUV2XLR8]

usually LS brakes require a 17 or larger wheel... did you check your clearances?.. or calipers might be about shot and not allowing the piston to return

[68firebird]

Been a bit. nothing really major to report, but winter is over, so time to start gettin the car ready. put a new pcv valve on. I hated the smoke that was coming out of the breather. also, hoping this fixes the caliper problem I was having before I put it away, I picked up a new, one piece pushrod and also picked up a boot from performance online. I'll install that hopefully within the week when I get time.



EDIT: Just remembered I have to order longer wheel studs for the rear. I'll get those ordered this weekend too.

[68firebird]

of course no major updates, but I put the longer wheel studs in. much safer LOL. installed the new brake pushrod to hopefully the right length. will test it out this weekend and see if the calipers lock up again.

Has anyone changed over to 3-point style belts in the back of early camaros or firebirds? I need to get new belts for the back so I can take me kids out in the car and would really like to change it over from the 2 point belts. or if you have purchased after market belts and are very happy with them please let me know where you got them from. thanks!!

[68firebird]

I put the new brake rod in at the proper length and it seems as though my calipers locking up has been fixed!!! I went for a nice long ride yesterday and everything went well! time to start enjoying it and taking it to some cruise night/car shows. The interior and stuff isn't done, but I don't really care at this point after having this sitting on blocks in my garage for 6+ years! plus I'm excited to take my kids out with me in it.

[68400BIRD]

Glad to hear the brakes are working correctly. Now go and enjoy the car. I bought some 3pt rear seat belts. I will look for the name of the company. Great price, great customer service, and made in the USA.

[68firebird]

Glad to hear the brakes are working correctly. Now go and enjoy the car. I bought some 3pt rear seat belts. I will look for the name of the company. Great price, great customer service, and made in the USA.

thank you!!!!

[RBEAST]

just read your build up and I couldnt even imagine having to put car away for the winter lol ... glad to see you are finally going to enjoy your firebird this summer.. keep the updates coming looking forward to them!

[68firebird]

thanks RBEAST!

small update. I replaced the 2 inch lowering blocks with 1 inch and that allowed me to remove the wheel spacer, so the rear wheels are now in line with the front and the rubbing when going over bumps is gone. Like I said, small update, but I'm happy with that.

I actually had the whole family out for a ride in it yesterday!! I never thought back when I bought this in 2001 that one day I would have high back booster seats in the back of it, but there they were, LOL. But after having the entire family in it, I've come to the conclusion that the front is just a bit too low for worry free cruising here in Rhode Island where ALL the roads are bad. by myself its not so bad, but with the extra couple hundred lbs its terrible. SO, I was thinking of raising it a little using these. http://www.globalwest.net/pontiac-gw-coil-spring-spacers.html
according to their site it will raise the car 5/8 of an inch. Do any of you guys have experience with these or is there something you would recommend? thanks.

[Buryingthesun]

Glad to hear your driving it again! We will meet up this summer

[68firebird]

I've got some 1/2in coil spring spacers from global west coming in on Thursday. Hopefully will be enough to raise her up a bit but still look good. I hope I can get them installed Thursday night without issue, I already made an appt in Friday for an alignment!

I also wanted to try something different with all the chrome on the car, wanted to flat black all of it. I tried the front bumper first, what do you guys think!? Like or no like?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/530A555EF1AF42ADA9CDD28EC60D60EF28641000-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/7541A83A2172406E96860EA229546EFD28641000-1.jpg

[68FBODY]

I like it

[dusterbd13]

plastidip?
ive been thinking of blacking the trim on my 64 with that stuff, just to try it out and see if i like how it looks.

[68firebird]

plastidip?
ive been thinking of blacking the trim on my 64 with that stuff, just to try it out and see if i like how it looks.

yup, that be plasti dip! exactly what you want to do is what I'm doing. If I like it I'm thinking of getting it permanently done.

[captainofiron]

yup, that be plasti dip! exactly what you want to do is what I'm doing. If I like it I'm thinking of getting it permanently done.

I cant remember where I saw it, but there is a fiberglass nose for the 67/68 firebird, if I was you I would get that instead of painting the chrome one, if yours is in decent condition you could probably get some good money for it

[68firebird]

I cant remember where I saw it, but there is a fiberglass nose for the 67/68 firebird, if I was you I would get that instead of painting the chrome one, if yours is in decent condition you could probably get some good money for it

Good idea!! just searched and found a place called unlimited products that has a fiberglass front bumper. http://www.up22.com/firebird67.htm#FB-710

wonder how good it fits. definitely an option to think about. thanks for the idea.

[captainofiron]

Good idea!! just searched and found a place called unlimited products that has a fiberglass front bumper. http://www.up22.com/firebird67.htm#FB-710

wonder how good it fits. definitely an option to think about. thanks for the idea.

no problem, wonder if there could be some big weight savings

I first saw the fiberglass bumpers on dragsters, guess they caught on

[68400BIRD]

Seat Belt Planet is where I bought my seat belts. Steve was great to work with.

Steve Pekrul, Sales Manager

Tel Toll Free: (877) 435-6363

[email protected]

Visit us at www.seatbeltplanet.com

[68firebird]

Seat Belt Planet is where I bought my seat belts. Steve was great to work with.

Steve Pekrul, Sales Manager

Tel Toll Free: (877) 435-6363

[email protected]

Visit us at www.seatbeltplanet.com

Thank you 68400bird. That's actually the site I had been looking at and was hoping someone had used them and could tell me how they found their quality.

[Buryingthesun]

Rene, the bumper looks great! I've wanted to do it for a while but could not paint the factory chrome with out crying.

I'm going to buy the fiberglass unit and go to town!

[68firebird]

Rene, the bumper looks great! I've wanted to do it for a while but could not paint the factory chrome with out crying.

I'm going to buy the fiberglass unit and go to town!

I know bro, that's why I plasti-dipped it LOL. in case I didn't like it I could peel it off!!! I'm thinking the fiberglass bumper is definitely the way to go in the long term.

[72BBSwinger]

Plasti-dip is awesome!

[qnitro]

What a great looking bird... Very nicely done

[mikewoods]

I agree! I love the contrast of the black bumper and dark wheels with the white car. I also like the front and rear camaro spoilers on the Firebird. I think Pontiac should have offered them that way from the factory.

[Buryingthesun]

I know bro, that's why I plasti-dipped it LOL. in case I didn't like it I could peel it off!!! I'm thinking the fiberglass bumper is definitely the way to go in the long term.

Were doing a meet in Worcester MA this Sunday at 9am if you want to come

[68firebird]

Were doing a meet in Worcester MA this Sunday at 9am if you want to come

ah man, thanks for the invite!! unfortunately I can't do anything with the car this weekend. I dropped it off today to get aligned and they informed me that they can't align it because I have a weak leafspring on the pass side and its leaning towards that side a bit. also has a body mount tab that needs to be fixed on that side. Hoping I can get the springs bought and put them in this weekend then I'll make an appt for an alignment next week! this sucks. I was hoping to actually hit some car shows this weekend.

[Buryingthesun]

ah man, thanks for the invite!! unfortunately I can't do anything with the car this weekend. I dropped it off today to get aligned and they informed me that they can't align it because I have a weak leafspring on the pass side and its leaning towards that side a bit. also has a body mount tab that needs to be fixed on that side. Hoping I can get the springs bought and put them in this weekend then I'll make an appt for an alignment next week! this sucks. I was hoping to actually hit some car shows this weekend.

No biggie man, we do them once a month

[68firebird]

heading out on lunch to pick up my new leaf springs. try to get those installed over the next day or two. then finish plasti-dippin my trim and bumper, get her aligned, then off to some shows and cruise nights.......I hope!!!

[68BirdinOz]

Love the look. I am planning on the same colour combo but will paint the chrome as my chrome is old and ugly.

[68firebird]

ok guys. I got the passenger side leaf spring in, but I ran into a problem on the drivers side. 2 of the 3 nuts in the front spring perch have broken free and the bolt just keeps on spinning! at this point I'm friggan screwed cause I have no idea what to do. I've tried putting a screwdriver or something into the little holes to stop the nut from turning but its just not working!! anyone have any advice with this?

EDIT: after doing research, I'm gonna try the grind the heads off or drill them out. whichever works.

[Buryingthesun]

Grind them off, drilling them will be a bitch because its still going to spin

[68firebird]

Grind them off, drilling them will be a bitch because its still going to spin


yep, thats the route I went and got them off!! now just gotta hit up competitive automotive tomorrow for some new screws and those clips.

[Buryingthesun]

yep, thats the route I went and got them off!! now just gotta hit up competitive automotive tomorrow for some new screws and those clips.

Forget that, stainless bolts and stainless nylon nuts

[68firebird]

Forget that, stainless bolts and stainless nylon nuts

how the hell do you tighten them though? You can't get a wrench in there with the perch in the way.

[Buryingthesun]

how the hell do you tighten them though? You can't get a wrench in there with the perch in the way.

Maybe I'm thinking of something different :/

[Wall]

Glad I found this! I was searching all over the place to see if I could find pics of satin black bumpers on firebirds and finally found this on google. I think it looks awesome, do you have anymore pics?

[68firebird]

Glad I found this! I was searching all over the place to see if I could find pics of satin black bumpers on firebirds and finally found this on google. I think it looks awesome, do you have anymore pics?
Thanks! No more pics yet, I'm gonna be polishing off putting my new leaf springs in tomorrow so I should be getting to painting the rest of the trim and rear bumper soon. Also thinking about painting the rims too. I'll post more pics when complete

[68firebird]

Need some more advice guys. I put the new springs in the rear. Installed the 1inch lowering blocks, and put the car on the ground. The car is still leaning towards the passenger side, lower by an inch! There is only about a quarter inch difference in he front. Can't figure out what the problem is! Help!!!!!

Edit: I think its body related. I measured from the floor to the top of both sides of the axle and its within a couple 1/8ths of each other.

[rixtrix1]

Are your rear shackle bushings OK? If they're collapsed, that could be your problem. Nice build! Thanks for sharing.

[Buryingthesun]

How are your body mount?

[68firebird]

How are your body mount?

the body mounts are brand new solid mounts from global west. The passenger side body mount tab under the front of the door needs to be fixed since the hole has rotted a bit bigger than it should be, but the body mount still has something to bite to. The front seems to be ok as its only off about a quarter of an inch from side to side, and I won't judge that till I get it aligned again. I'll call today and see what it will cost to fix the body mount tab. only other thing I can think of is the subrame is slightly tweaked or the body itself is slightly tweaked. so I might try and shim the body for now. we'll see.

so I ask, is it acceptable to use body mount shims if necessary?

[68firebird]

Are your rear shackle bushings OK? If they're collapsed, that could be your problem. Nice build! Thanks for sharing.

the rear shackles are in good shape, I just had them out of the car when i put the new leafs in. I think the suspension part of it isn't the problem, measurements from the floor to certain parts of the axle and leaf spring perches all seem to be within a couple 8ths of each other.

[Buryingthesun]

the body mounts are brand new solid mounts from global west. The passenger side body mount tab under the front of the door needs to be fixed since the hole has rotted a bit bigger than it should be, but the body mount still has something to bite to. The front seems to be ok as its only off about a quarter of an inch from side to side, and I won't judge that till I get it aligned again. I'll call today and see what it will cost to fix the body mount tab. only other thing I can think of is the subrame is slightly tweaked or the body itself is slightly tweaked. so I might try and shim the body for now. we'll see.

so I ask, is it acceptable to use body mount shims if necessary?


maybe your axle is not square? can you get some pictures from underneath so we can see if anything looks out of whack? if its leaning that bad there has to be something noticeably wrong going on under there.

[68firebird]

maybe your axle is not square? can you get some pictures from underneath so we can see if anything looks out of whack? if its leaning that bad there has to be something noticeably wrong going on under there.

thats the problem, I can't see anything visibly wrong, its very frustrating!!! I measured from the floor to the top of the axle, inside near diff and outside near springs, and its withing a couple 8ths of each other, so the axle doesn't seem to be the problem. and obviously the leaf spring aren't the problem, cause thats what I thought the problem was in the first place. I'm gonna loosen up the rear body mount, jack the body up a tad and see if thats where the issue is. I could have a slightly bent subframe. I've got global west subframe connectors on there, I'll do some measurements tonight from the floor to the subframe and the connectors. I do know the measurements to the rocker panels are off, so if the measurements to the connectors and subframe are good, I would think the body is tweaked a bit.

[BirdsThaWord]

Wow! I'd be freakin out. Hope it's something simple. Good luck with it!!!

[68firebird]

Wow! I'd be freakin out. Hope it's something simple. Good luck with it!!!

I hope, but with my luck its unlikely!!

measured the rear of the subframe where the connector bolts to, it measures just under 5 3/8 inches, same spot on drivers side measures 6 2/16 inches. so I'm automatically assuming the subframe is bent. :dunno:

[BirdsThaWord]

I wonder if a collision shop can tell you. Maybe for free? I have to replace my rear frame rails eventually due to rust. Not looking forward to it. Good luck man!!!

[68firebird]

I wonder if a collision shop can tell you. Maybe for free? I have to replace my rear frame rails eventually due to rust. Not looking forward to it. Good luck man!!!

I wish, but we all know nothing is for free. And that sucks about replacing the frame rails. Are they rotting or just rusty?

[BirdsThaWord]

I wish, but we all know nothing is for free. And that sucks about replacing the frame rails. Are they rotting or just rusty?

I know what you mean.
I wouldn't say mine are rotting, but where the "slot" looking holes are they are rough & rusty. That tells me that they are probably weakened. For some reason, the guy I bought the car from had replaced ALL of the sheet metal (floors, quarters, fenders, hood, etc. etc.) but not the trunk floor and those rails. I plan to put some power in it eventually, along with a 4-link or other modern rear set up, so I think it would be wise to make sure that there are as few weak points in there as possible. My concern is putting them back in there the way they should be (alignment). I'm no welder, and wouldn't want to attempt such an important project like that on my own. There are some really good shops that are semi-close (Screamin Performance and Prodigy Customs) that specialize in these cars. I'll end up putting it in their hands for the suspension set up, once I get to that point that is. First I have to get the money, and that's looking like it will be a while. For now my 'Bird is a nice conversation piece sitting in the garage! Lol! I envy the fact that you only have that relatively small problem compared to what I still have to do!

[68firebird]

I know what you mean.
I wouldn't say mine are rotting, but where the "slot" looking holes are they are rough & rusty. That tells me that they are probably weakened. For some reason, the guy I bought the car from had replaced ALL of the sheet metal (floors, quarters, fenders, hood, etc. etc.) but not the trunk floor and those rails. I plan to put some power in it eventually, along with a 4-link or other modern rear set up, so I think it would be wise to make sure that there are as few weak points in there as possible. My concern is putting them back in there the way they should be (alignment). I'm no welder, and wouldn't want to attempt such an important project like that on my own. There are some really good shops that are semi-close (Screamin Performance and Prodigy Customs) that specialize in these cars. I'll end up putting it in their hands for the suspension set up, once I get to that point that is. First I have to get the money, and that's looking like it will be a while. For now my 'Bird is a nice conversation piece sitting in the garage! Lol! I envy the fact that you only have that relatively small problem compared to what I still have to do!

hahaha, I know all to well about the conversation piece! I'm sick of having it stationary LOL. I've got no money myself for a new or used subframe or even get this one fixed if that's the problem, so for now I think I might throw a couple shims in to raise the body and call it a day. probably not the right thing to do, but I've got no choice right now.

[BirdsThaWord]

If shims will do it, I'd rock on with it too. I thought I learned my lesson last time I built a car about not getting carried away with it. You are obviously more level headed than me when it comes to that. Let us know how the shims work. I wouldn't have thought to do that. That's what I call "making it happen"!

[ho428]

I'm actually suprised how well the bumper works with the white. I would paint the inside letters of the firebird emblems black, leave the outter Chrome though. That'll give some black trailing down the side. Black out fog the turn lamps and quarter markers too. Paint the side gills pieces black.
Find some old rocker mold if you don't have any, paint it black, it might be too much but you could mock it up to see. I might have some rough ones laying around.

On the out of square, make sure your front springs are exactly the same free length and are seated properly in the upper pocket and lower arm. I've had the PS side come unseated, it'd raise the PS front and made the DS rear lower. It can be decieving that they are seated since it's hard to see inside the upper pocket and that the spring is rotated into the lower arm spring stop, but it's not hard to get them out of place, especially when they've been cut and you let the suspension droop.



I also wanted to try something different with all the chrome on the car, wanted to flat black all of it. I tried the front bumper first, what do you guys think!? Like or no like?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/530A555EF1AF42ADA9CDD28EC60D60EF28641000-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/7541A83A2172406E96860EA229546EFD28641000-1.jpg

[68firebird]

thanks for the compliments and the advice ho428. I can't see how the springs are in the pocket like you say, but I guess I'll drop the drivers side down and have a look since its the pass side with the problem. It might even be sitting on the spacer I just put in the wrong way. I hope its that easy!!!

[ho428]

It's just a shot of something to check, there should be tabs to locate the upper part of the spring in the pocket, but it's easy to get it over a tab and not know it.
The way the spring spirals into the lower arm I've seen them clock back away from the end stop. Not sure if you cut your springs or not, I didn't read the entire thread, but without enough spring pressure against the lower arm they can turn when unloaded. I ended up with droop stops to keep the spring from getting loose.

My race car is still about 1/4" difference in the rear even with the front springs back in place, measuring from the rockers by the spring perch to the ground. I can't figure that one out yet, probably frame related but with a full cage and connectors welded in I'm not going chasing that rabbit anytime soon.
Some of these old cars were drag raced and or had way to much engine for the stock unibody, so things got tweaked a bit over 45 years of use.

[68firebird]

Ok, I've got hotchkis 2 inch lowering springs in. I picked up some global west 1/2 inch spacers a couple weeks ago cause she was way to low in front, but now it's too high, so I just bought 3/8 inch and I'll drop those in, so I'll make sure the springs are in the pocket when I install them. At the back you can visually see the space between the top of the tire and the bottom of the wheel well differences from drivers to pass side, and I can't have that!!!!

[ho428]

At the back you can visually see the space between the top of the tire and the bottom of the wheel well differences from drivers to pass side, and I can't have that!!!!

Same here, I have Global West reverse eye springs to get mine lower, and I added 1" blocks to the springs, to even it out I'm putting in a 3/4" on one side and leave the 1" on the other.
It's possible the springs have a slightly different rate, once my next race is done I'll have time to switch the springs left to right just to see if it changes.

[Buryingthesun]

If you had QA1 coil overs like me you would not have this problem ;)

[68firebird]

If you had QA1 coil overs like me you would not have this problem ;)

Hahahaha, sure rub it in!! Trust me I recently looked into them, out of my budget at the moment!!

[68firebird]

Ok, well I just can't figure out why this thing is leaning towards the passenger side, and I'm getting extremely frustrated, so she is going to my mechanic at the end of the week to get looked at. For some reason I just fear it will be bad news though.

[68firebird]

Took it to my mechanic on friday, he couldn't find anything wrong with the suspension or anything to cause the lean, so its going off to an autobody shop one night this week to see if we can figure this out. Its getting very frustrating at this point. I Just wanna head to some friggan cruise nights, WTF! some guys say that the lean is normal, but it just doesn't seem normal to me and it really bothers me that its like that.

[Buryingthesun]

Took it to my mechanic on friday, he couldn't find anything wrong with the suspension or anything to cause the lean, so its going off to an autobody shop one night this week to see if we can figure this out. Its getting very frustrating at this point. I Just wanna head to some friggan cruise nights, WTF! some guys say that the lean is normal, but it just doesn't seem normal to me and it really bothers me that its like that.

Pontiac torque twisted the car :(

[68firebird]

Pontiac torque twisted the car :(

hahaha, not likely, she started out as a straight six car and the previous owner to me put in a chevy iroc 305, not the beefiest motor on the planet, LOL.

[ho428]

Have you swapped the leaf springs left to right to see if it changes?

Are these reverse eye springs you installed?

[68firebird]

Have you swapped the leaf springs left to right to see if it changes?

Are these reverse eye springs you installed?

No, simply because it had the lean with the old springs, now it hasn't changed with the new. no they aren't reverse eye, They are stock ride height springs, got them from my local GM restoration store.

[Buryingthesun]

No, simply because it had the lean with the old springs, now it hasn't changed with the new. no they aren't reverse eye, They are stock ride height springs, got them from my local GM restoration store.

punch your car in the face and tell it to stop being a bitch

[ho428]

If the front of the car is level put jack stands under the frame at the spring perch. The front frame should measure the same to the ground at the stands. Then measure from the rear shackle frame bolt to the ground with the jack still supporting the axle, and measure again letting the rear end droop.
This should tell you if the rear frame is even and if it's moving.

[68firebird]

Took the car to a shop about 25 minutes away from where I live yesterday, got caught in a friggan downpour on the hightway and was in a ton of traffic on the highway to boot!!! and of course once it downpoured it continued to rain all night! Anyway, the guy at the shop ended up telling me he couldn't really see why it had the lean. Albeit he didn't take any measurements or anything, just crawled underneath and was eyeballing stuff. I'll try another shop closer to me today if I have time.

on the positive note, first time I've taken this on the highway EVER! :drive: Motor ran good, stayed at 180 degrees and oil at 30psi. Brakes worked great. only thing I noticed is at speed there is too much play in the steering box, so might want to change that out sometime. And the guy liked the black painted nose. that made me happy :cool:

Thanks ho428, but at this point its something that will have to be fixed by an autobody or frame shop I'm thinking, so I would rather they find the issue. I'm kinda stumped as to why nobody can figure this out.

[Buryingthesun]

Took the car to a shop about 25 minutes away from where I live yesterday, got caught in a friggan downpour on the hightway and was in a ton of traffic on the highway to boot!!! and of course once it downpoured it continued to rain all night! Anyway, the guy at the shop ended up telling me he couldn't really see why it had the lean. Albeit he didn't take any measurements or anything, just crawled underneath and was eyeballing stuff. I'll try another shop closer to me today if I have time.

on the positive note, first time I've taken this on the highway EVER! :drive: Motor ran good, stayed at 180 degrees and oil at 30psi. Brakes worked great. only thing I noticed is at speed there is too much play in the steering box, so might want to change that out sometime. And the guy liked the black painted nose. that made me happy :cool:

Thanks ho428, but at this point its something that will have to be fixed by an autobody or frame shop I'm thinking, so I would rather they find the issue. I'm kinda stumped as to why nobody can figure this out.

If you want to make the trip, I have a buddy in Bellingham that builds race cars and performance alignments, Its called Flat Out Motorsports, they might be able to help you

[68firebird]

If you want to make the trip, I have a buddy in Bellingham that builds race cars and performance alignments, Its called Flat Out Motorsports, they might be able to help you

thanks man, I'll keep it in mind.

[firebird1969]

If it makes you feel any better My 69 has the same issues but my car leans to the the driver side?

Good Luck

[68400BIRD]

With out going through the last few pages, here are a few questions.

Do you have new body mounts installed? Are they rubber or solid?
Did you torque any of the suspension when it was hanging in the air?
How is the air pressure in all of the tires?
Do you have a rear anti sway bar?

[68Formula]

With out going through the last few pages, here are a few questions.

Do you have new body mounts installed? Are they rubber or solid?
Did you torque any of the suspension when it was hanging in the air?
How is the air pressure in all of the tires?
Do you have a rear anti sway bar?

Did a previous owner install subframe connectors? Are they welded or bolt in?

[68firebird]

Did a previous owner install subframe connectors? Are they welded or bolt in?

I had subframe connectors put in last year, they are global west, weld in back, bolt in front.

[68firebird]

With out going through the last few pages, here are a few questions.

Do you have new body mounts installed? Are they rubber or solid?
Did you torque any of the suspension when it was hanging in the air?
How is the air pressure in all of the tires?
Do you have a rear anti sway bar?

Solid body mounts, new.
Yes I did, but I've since loosened it all up on the ground and bounced the car a bunch.
Air pressure is at 40psi in all 4
No rear sway bar.

[68Formula]

I had subframe connectors put in last year, they are global west, weld in back, bolt in front.

Did you put in the new bushings before, or after you installed the subframe connectors?

If the subframe bushings were worn, the subframe not sit level to the body. Then if you bolt the front of the subframe connectors, and then welded the rear body, now it's all one solid piece. So if you put in new bushings after that (which are all even height-wise and equally torqued), it will cause some twist to the body. It's a little hard to describe, but hopefully you can visualize it.

[68firebird]

Did you put in the new bushings before, or after you installed the subframe connectors?

If the subframe bushings were worn, the subframe not sit level to the body. Then if you bolt the front of the subframe connectors, and then welded the rear body, now it's all one solid piece. So if you put in new bushings after that (which are all even height-wise and equally torqued), it will cause some twist to the body. It's a little hard to describe, but hopefully you can visualize it.


I installed the body bushings before I had the connectors welded in. If there was some kind if twist, any ideas how to get the lean so it's within a quarter inch, it's about an inch now. Looks friggan terrible

[68Formula]

I installed the body bushings before I had the connectors welded in. If there was some kind if twist, any ideas how to get the lean so it's within a quarter inch, it's about an inch now. Looks friggan terrible

If the subframe connectors were installed after the new body bushings, with the car supported on the suspension, then most likely that's not the problem. Maybe trying unbolting the subframe connectors at the front, and see if there's any change.

[68400BIRD]

I know you were going to check to see if the coils were seated correctly in the subframe.
Have you done that yet?
Are the coils clocked in the lower pocket of the control arm correctly? There should be two holes in the control arm. The end of the coil should be in between those two holes.

[68firebird]

I know you were going to check to see if the coils were seated correctly in the subframe.
Have you done that yet?
Are the coils clocked in the lower pocket of the control arm correctly? There should be two holes in the control arm. The end of the coil should be in between those two holes.


Yes, I checked AND my mechanic checked, both sides were sitting properly on top and on bottom. I actually went a step further yesterday and swapped the 1/2 inch spacer out on the drivers front and put a 3/8 inch one in (figuring it would lower the drivers side a tad), tightened it all up on the ground and took it for a ride to settle it. STILL leans bad, really didn't see a change anywhere by doing this! seein as nobody can figure this out yet I'm scared this is going to be a problem that's gonna be expensive to fix, and I just don't have the cash for that.

EDIT: forgot to mention, one guy that looked at it noticed that on the pass side, right below where the back of the connector is welded to the frame (global west connectors), the connector is practically right up against the unibody frame, but on the drivers side there is about a half or 3/4 inch of room between the connector and the unibody frame, but the frame sits in the pocket on the connector the same on both sides. I hope that makes sense! I can get pics if needed, I don't know if that says anything about whats going on.

[68400BIRD]

Could it be as simple as one of the springs being stronger or weaker than the other one? Did they both look to be the same height before installing them?
I have also seen where a leaf spring sag can affect the front of the car.

[68firebird]

ok, I hope I might have figured it out, I'm gonna run it by my mechanic tonight, but figured I'd ask you guys. please tell me if this makes sense. I had these subframe connectors welded in last year with the weak leaf springs (by my mechanic), which the car had the lean back then. so even though I replaced the leaf springs the connectors are welded in with the previous lean, I'm thinking that would be why there is no gap between the connector and frame on the pass side and there is a bigger gap on the drivers side, and no matter what I do seems to correct the problem. so I'm thinking if they cut the welds and take these off it should straighten the body back out. Does that make sense to you guys? cause I'm pretty damn sure there is nothing wrong with any of my springs.

[68Formula]

ok, I hope I might have figured it out, I'm gonna run it by my mechanic tonight, but figured I'd ask you guys. please tell me if this makes sense. I had these subframe connectors welded in last year with the weak leaf springs (by my mechanic), which the car had the lean back then. so even though I replaced the leaf springs the connectors are welded in with the previous lean, I'm thinking that would be why there is no gap between the connector and frame on the pass side and there is a bigger gap on the drivers side, and no matter what I do seems to correct the problem. so I'm thinking if they cut the welds and take these off it should straighten the body back out. Does that make sense to you guys? cause I'm pretty damn sure there is nothing wrong with any of my springs.

I'm not really picturing those two being related. But considering there's a difference in gap from the rear frame and body, it would probably be a good idea to grind off the welds, fix the lean problem (if it still exists after doing that), and weld them back in after everything is sitting right.

Did you try just unbolting the front of the subframe connectors like I suggested, to see if there's a change?

[68firebird]

I'm not really picturing those two being related. But considering there's a difference in gap from the rear frame and body, it would probably be a good idea to grind off the welds, fix the lean problem (if it still exists after doing that), and weld them back in after everything is sitting right.

Did you try just unbolting the front of the subframe connectors like I suggested, to see if there's a change?

Not yet. I'm probably not gonna have the time to so it this weekend either. I'm dropping it off Monday night so I will probably just have mechanic take the connectors off and see if anything changes, otherwise I'll leave them off till it's fixed

[68firebird]

Ok, she's been at my mechanics now for 2 weeks, just checked in with them this morning and should be getting it back on Monday. The result: subframe is a tad tweaked. So they shimmed here and there to get it to sit level until I'm ready to replace the subframe, but at least it sits level.

I've been debating on selling this and getting into something else, maybe another 3rd gen f-body. I'm just not sure yet what I want to do, although my wife seems to think I have my mind made up on selling!

In the meantime I'd like to put a brake booster in. So my question is which size booster? Single or dual diaphragm? It's got LS1 brakes in front and stock drums in back.

EDIT: something like this should work fine, right? http://www.performanceonline.com/1967-69-Chevy-Camaro-and-Pontiac-Firebird-Power-Brake-Booster-Kit/

[dusterbd13]

i used a used s10 blazer booster with stock firewall brackets and a welded together pushrod on mine. cheapest I could get a booster.

[68firebird]

Thanks for the advice Michael. I think I'm gonna try going with a stock 11 inch booster, should fit since I've got a sbc with short valve covers.

anyway, I picked the car up from my mechanic and she is sitting level and all aligned and drives good! so the brake booster will be ordered this week.

[Buryingthesun]

Do you understand how pissed off Im going to be if you seel this. . .

[68firebird]

Do you understand how pissed off Im going to be if you sell this. . .

hahaha, well its not going anywhere just yet. everyone around me tells me to not get rid of it, even my mechanic and my wife. And my wife not wanting me to is kinda hard to believe. she must have a soft spot for it. LOL.

[68firebird]

Plasti dipped my rims black last night and finally got to a small cruise night tonight.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/07/null_zps0a343e3e-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/07/null_zps41d00557-1.jpg

[Buryingthesun]

That should be my car it's next too :-/

[68firebird]

What do you guys think of tuff stuff mini starters. I'm sick of this thing not wanting to start after a ride in a hot day. It's rather embarrassing lol

Or had anyone tried one of these? http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?index=0&sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=251226455728

[68firebird]

Just a quick pic I took at work this morn to show what the plasti dipped rims look like.

[68firebird]

I got fed up with my starter getting heat soaked so I picked up a powermaster mini starter today. tried putting it in, but of course its not going too smooth. How many shims are used on average with starters? I've got 4 in there now and I think I need to add more. the small starter gear comes out and hits the flywheel. plus, the adapter block hits the header, so I'll have to have that shaved to fit. this is the starter I got, supposed to fit both flywheels. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-9004

79085
79086
79087
79088

[68firebird]

Ok, nobody really seems to want to help me out lately, but I really need some help with this one!!!! PLEASE check this thread for me and see if you can help me out. I know its not as pretty and not a $100,000 dollar build like alot of these other cars are, but someone on this forum has to know the answer to my problems.

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?100408-starter-issue-please-help!!-video-inside&p=1005620#post1005620

[Fbird]

Uhg...powermaster. I've never had good luck with any powermaster product so I'm not too suprised that your having problems. If your gear (bendex) isn't returning then it usually means it's hanging up on the flex plate and needs more shim. Make absolutely sure that the mounting surface is flat and the shims aren't jammed in there. Your 1st pic looks the shim is not centered. If mounting surfaces are flat then ad more shims and see if it helps. I have a 454 that has 9 shims under the starter to get it to work so don't worry about adding too many. Also, make sure your starter bolts aren't bent.

If the above fails then send it back and get a better quality starter.

[68firebird]

Ok thanks, will check It out today

[Buryingthesun]

Id send it back, sounds like the solinoid has a problem

[captainofiron]

Ok, nobody really seems to want to help me out lately, but I really need some help with this one!!!! PLEASE check this thread for me and see if you can help me out. I know its not as pretty and not a $100,000 dollar build like alot of these other cars are, but someone on this forum has to know the answer to my problems.

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?100408-starter-issue-please-help!!-video-inside&p=1005620#post1005620


sorry man, Ive never had a problem like this

only starter problem I ever had was trying to put a regular starter in a K10 chevy pick up that needed a "metric" starter... WAT

[68firebird]

sorry man, Ive never had a problem like this

only starter problem I ever had was trying to put a regular starter in a K10 chevy pick up that needed a "metric" starter... WAT

no problem, thanks for looking anyways.

I ended up not being able to get this to work right, so I put the two shims back in with the original starter and BAM, the friggan thing starts with no weird noises or anything. I'll just have to figure out another way to get around it getting heat soaked I guess. I've since contacted powermaster about my issue and we've been back and forth through email a couple times so far. We'll see what happens with that.

[Buryingthesun]

no problem, thanks for looking anyways.

I ended up not being able to get this to work right, so I put the two shims back in with the original starter and BAM, the friggan thing starts with no weird noises or anything. I'll just have to figure out another way to get around it getting heat soaked I guess. I've since contacted powermaster about my issue and we've been back and forth through email a couple times so far. We'll see what happens with that.

wrap the starter with gold foil /problem

[70SS98SS]

I have to agree with the 100,000 build comment. :) as for the starter, ALL of the cars I have ever worked on where the owner insisted it needed a "high torque" starter: didn't. here what I have found in the cases where it started hard hot. in no specific order
1) bad battery cables specifically poor ground
2) bad or faulty starter/ solenoid
3) bad battery (usually a weak cell)
4) improper timing
I would start, no pun intended, there LONG before I ever spent a dime on a "high torque" starter. last one I had held the shop door open on hot days. I would buy a quality factory style starter check the above and replace as necessary then enjoy the car!

[Buryingthesun]

I still say wrap it with gold foil, we did that for the fuel lines on our drag car and found a major reduction in temps. so then we wrapped the brake lines and master cylinder due to the turbo manifold piping being too close.

its expensive, but you can buy scraps on ebay

[68firebird]

thanks guys. I think I might just try wrapping the headers with some thermal wrap, but I'll look into the gold foil as an option. I'm still in contact with powermaster as to what to do with the starter from them.

side note, I picked up a nice steering wheel from a forum member here, so I was finally able to ditch the wooden wheel which I hated. this is much better.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/07/photo_1_zps6f9aa9bd-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/07/photo_2_zps95efe5e4-1.jpg

[Buryingthesun]

I like the new wheel, mine is so derpy and big, its like a 24" steering wheel

plus my car has power steering so its not even needed

[Fbird]

I don't know if they still sell them but NAPA used to sell a HD factory style starter that have cured my hot start issues in the past. The one I have now is going on 10 years old and has never failed to start. If need be I can get the part # for you.

[68firebird]

I don't know if they still sell them but NAPA used to sell a HD factory style starter that have cured my hot start issues in the past. The one I have now is going on 10 years old and has never failed to start. If need be I can get the part # for you.

thanks for the tip, your part # might not work for me though, I don't have a pontiac engine in here. I think I'm just gonna wrap the headers though.

after exchanging a few emails with Brady from powermaster, I'll be sending the starter back to them to have it checked out. They said they are gonna check the whole thing out, something isn't right, it should be getting hung up going back in. we'll see what happens next. I am happy they are helping me out though.

[Buryingthesun]

Where have you been? two months and no updates?

[gto406]

Hi Rene,

My experience with GM starters and Pontiacs are they easily get hot-soaked. I burned out two GM starters on my Bird. We put in a CVR starter (with a Denso mechanism) and voila - no hot soak issues!

Got a PowerMaster (also Denso type) starter for my GTO and it looks really nice. Of course i will use a good positive battery cable with plenty of chassis GNDs.

If your going to wrap your headers, use the DEI wrap. They also have starter wraps you can use but with a Denso style you shouldn't need one.

Bird looks great! Keep at it!
BR/Brian.

[gto406]

Hi Rene,

My experience with GM starters and Pontiacs are they easily get hot-soaked. I burned out two GM starters on my Bird. We put in a CVR starter (with a Denso mechanism) and voila - no hot soak issues!

Got a PowerMaster (also Denso type) starter for my GTO and it looks really nice. Of course i will use a good positive battery cable with plenty of chassis GNDs.

If your going to wrap your headers, use the DEI wrap. They also have starter wraps you can use but with a Denso style you shouldn't need one.

Bird looks great! Keep at it!
BR/Brian.

[68firebird]

Hey what's up?! Haven't put any updates cause I really haven't done anything to it. Money has kinda dried up. I've been driving it to work every now and then, but my kids after school and weekend schedules are crazy so cruise nights shows are mostly out of the picture for me.

[Buryingthesun]

where have you been buddy?

[68firebird]

Don't come to the forum much. No money to work on the car so she sits in the garage for now. Plus winter hinders things Hahaha. How you been

[Buryingthesun]

Don't come to the forum much. No money to work on the car so she sits in the garage for now. Plus winter hinders things Hahaha. How you been

I've been alright, tore my car apart... Now I need to replace a tone of stuff before spring, I wish I just put the brakes on instead of taking too big of a bite

[expensivehobby22]

Hey there. Just read through your entire thread and love your car.

I recently relocated to Mass and will be bringing my 68 Firebird out here very soon as well (haven't lived in the same state as it for 16 years). Glad to see that there are some other 1st gen Firebirds in the area. It will be awhile before mine is back on the road, but threads like yours give me motivation.

Have a good one,
-ray

[68firebird]

Hey there. Just read through your entire thread and love your car.

I recently relocated to Mass and will be bringing my 68 Firebird out here very soon as well (haven't lived in the same state as it for 16 years). Glad to see that there are some other 1st gen Firebirds in the area. It will be awhile before mine is back on the road, but threads like yours give me motivation.

Have a good one,
-ray

thanks ray! Mine remains pretty much unchanged since I last posted updates on it. I drive it to work every now and then, today being one of those days, and I occasionally will get to a cruise night or car show, depending on my kids schedule. Maybe one day all us pontiac owners around here can meet up, maybe at the big bass pro shope cruise night! but since I have two young children I have way more important "afterschool" activities to attend lol. post some pics of yours up sometime. see you around.

[Gil]

Hi Rene,
Nice looking car !
I have also a 2 years old son & familly is the most important.
Gil

[nyciti]

Heat soak is easy to fix with a $20 ford starter solenoid, never have to worry about it again.

[expensivehobby22]

I pretty much live around the corner from Patriot Place so I'll make a few of those this summer. Probably not in the Firebird though, but who knows.

[Gil]

You did a lot since 2010.Mine is far from this step.Very nice work with the front...EnjoyGil

[68firebird]

Heat soak is easy to fix with a $20 ford starter solenoid, never have to worry about it again.

Well I've got a powermaster high torque starter just sitting in my garage waiting to go in. my last time trying to install this didn't go so hot, so I think I might enlist a specialist to help me out this time LOL. I just couldn't get it to mesh properly. I sent it back, they checked it over, fixed something on it, then sent it back. we'll see what happens on next install attempt.

On the other hand, I'm gonna start putting the interior back in. I've been lazy about this, time to get going getting it back together.

Here's a photo from last year with my son and I by the car after a cruise to a car show. Him and my daughter love driving in it!

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[lucky13firebird]

Yeah my kids love riding in our car. That thing is clean clean clean. I like it.

[68firebird]

heading up to a buddies house this saturday to install the high torque starter I've had sitting around and change out the tranny filter and gasket. The pan leaks like crazy since the last owner used the crappy cork gasket with some rtv silicone!! My buddy has a lift in his garage, so I don't have to lay on my back to do this stuff, thats kinda gettin old to me, LOL. wish I had a lift!!

[68400BIRD]

I have had the best luck greasing up the tranny gasket and only using a 1/4 drive socket drive. Then make sure you tighten it evenly and never let the gasket start to squeeze out. Check to make sure the o ring on the dip stick is not leaking.

[68firebird]

awesome, thank you, will keep that all in mind on saturday. hope it all cures my obscene tranny leak. I have no doubt its coming from the pan. while I was under it last year a few of the bolts holding the pan on weren't very tight, but when I attempted to tighten them that awesome cork gasket started squeezing out, then you could see the silicone. fingers crossed.

[68firebird]

Went over my buds house this weekend and changed out the tranny fluid, filter and gasket like I said, looks like it cleared up some of the leaking issues, and it definitely needed to be changed!!!! but still a small leak does remain from the dipstick, we just didn't have the seal to fix that. soon we'll clear that up too. the starter on the other hand, still sounds like its grinding when the gear is returning back to the starter, so I'm putting this new powermaster up for sale on ebay. I'm thinking because its made for both flywheels, we tried my buddies powermaster that is strictly made for the bigger flywheel and it worked much better. who knows, but this one just won't work right!

also, for the first time I had her up on the highway heading to his house, and cruising at 80 mph she was stable and straight.

[lucky13firebird]

Oddly enough I've had no problems with my stock starter and heat soak. Only problem I had was the starter wouldn't catch sometimes on the sfi billet flywheel (stock flywheel was getting cracks in it...) because the machined teeth were wider (less gap between them) than the cast stock teeth on the flywheel. I don't have pics cause I was in a hurry but in 2 degree new York weather I pulled off the starter and Dremeled the engagement gear to have a slope on each gear. It had small flat spots on the face of each gear that would slam into my flywheel and not slip between the teeth sometimes. After I sloped each tooth (I know, a pain right...) it would engage every time because no matter how it was lined up when the solenoid would slap it towards the flywheel it would slip in due to the slopes in cut in each single gear...

Only problem cranking was when the head of my wire melted on the terminal and didn't pass enough current. I bought a $3 lead terminal connection instead of the flimsy copper one and it solved that problem... and I have headers and get my engine so hot it used to boil my fuel out of the carb before the thermal gasket I put in it... so your starter issues may not be just a starter issue...

[68firebird]

Oddly enough I've had no problems with my stock starter and heat soak. Only problem I had was the starter wouldn't catch sometimes on the sfi billet flywheel (stock flywheel was getting cracks in it...) because the machined teeth were wider (less gap between them) than the cast stock teeth on the flywheel. I don't have pics cause I was in a hurry but in 2 degree new York weather I pulled off the starter and Dremeled the engagement gear to have a slope on each gear. It had small flat spots on the face of each gear that would slam into my flywheel and not slip between the teeth sometimes. After I sloped each tooth (I know, a pain right...) it would engage every time because no matter how it was lined up when the solenoid would slap it towards the flywheel it would slip in due to the slopes in cut in each single gear...

Only problem cranking was when the head of my wire melted on the terminal and didn't pass enough current. I bought a $3 lead terminal connection instead of the flimsy copper one and it solved that problem... and I have headers and get my engine so hot it used to boil my fuel out of the carb before the thermal gasket I put in it... so your starter issues may not be just a starter issue...

oh boy, thats not what I want to hear, LOL. I'll figure it out soon.

last night I finally cut the holes in the back metal package tray area to properly fit 6X9 speakers (and that pretty much sucked, doing it with a jigsaw with the rear glass there!), though I still need to trim the cardboard package tray a bit more for them to sit totally flat against, but I need to get replacement 6X9s anyway, the foam on these are shot. I did a temporary fix with some silicone that looks like it might get me some extra time out of them.

[68firebird]

Question!!! Is there a steering arm out there that will bolt up to the drum spindle that will bring the tie rod away from the rim more than stock? My tie rods are VERY close to the rims, and have scraped a time or two. I definitely need to replace these arms with something else. oh, and shimming the rims out really isn't an option right now, I think they'll rub up front if I do that, and I'm pretty much stuck with the rims I have at the moment.

[lucky13firebird]

That would be very dangerous.... I can only imagine the angles bump steer wise and your family cruising the freeway at 80 and hitting a bad bump on the right side of the road or something... sorry bro but aside from doing a disc swap (it'll kick out the wheel 1/4" and shouldn't rub on the outside any more than it would now...) or just getting the right wheels you can't do too much. I have 255 mm tires up front in my bird and they don't rub the outside any. My offset is +13mm up front on an 8.5" rim so you have some idea of what the spacing is.

[68firebird]

That would be very dangerous.... I can only imagine the angles bump steer wise and your family cruising the freeway at 80 and hitting a bad bump on the right side of the road or something... sorry bro but aside from doing a disc swap (it'll kick out the wheel 1/4" and shouldn't rub on the outside any more than it would now...) or just getting the right wheels you can't do too much. I have 255 mm tires up front in my bird and they don't rub the outside any. My offset is +13mm up front on an 8.5" rim so you have some idea of what the spacing is.

I've got disc on the fronts already, but I had the drum spindle machined to fit the rotor. I just assumed there was a steering arm out there that would fix the issue, it seems there's pretty much a fix for every problem that comes up lol. well maybe I get a really small spacer and toss it in just to bring it out a little bit.

[lucky13firebird]

my buddy has a 3000 GT and he used those really small spacers on the front for his wheels to clear the calipers... he hardly drives that car, maybe 5k miles a year MAX... well he snapped off 3 of the 5 lugs one time taking off his wheel... the spacer had caused a sheering effect and fatigued his wheel studs... maybe it was the spacer... maybe not, but both the fronts had spacers and had at least 1 broken lug per side... while the rear had zero damage... and no spacers.... i'm talking about the 3/16" thick ones...

[68firebird]

my buddy has a 3000 GT and he used those really small spacers on the front for his wheels to clear the calipers... he hardly drives that car, maybe 5k miles a year MAX... well he snapped off 3 of the 5 lugs one time taking off his wheel... the spacer had caused a sheering effect and fatigued his wheel studs... maybe it was the spacer... maybe not, but both the fronts had spacers and had at least 1 broken lug per side... while the rear had zero damage... and no spacers.... i'm talking about the 3/16" thick ones...


ok, why you keep raining on my parade!!!!! LOL Either way, I'll figure something out, new set of rims and tires just not in my budget right now.

[captainofiron]

my buddy has a 3000 GT and he used those really small spacers on the front for his wheels to clear the calipers... he hardly drives that car, maybe 5k miles a year MAX... well he snapped off 3 of the 5 lugs one time taking off his wheel... the spacer had caused a sheering effect and fatigued his wheel studs... maybe it was the spacer... maybe not, but both the fronts had spacers and had at least 1 broken lug per side... while the rear had zero damage... and no spacers.... i'm talking about the 3/16" thick ones...

he probably didnt torque them correctly.

the only real problem with spacers is that they are made from aluminum and the lugs are steel and they have a different coefficient of thermal expansion, so the aluminum will push on the lugs, BUT the torque value should be high enough that it will put the lug up into the yield part of the stress strain curve, which will lessen fatigue.

fatigue is caused when you are loading and unloading a part, steel has a pretty high fatigue limit.

also shear happens when something is overtorqued

[Rod]

he probably didnt torque them correctly.

the only real problem with spacers is that they are made from aluminum and the lugs are steel and they have a different coefficient of thermal expansion, so the aluminum will push on the lugs, BUT the torque value should be high enough that it will put the lug up into the yield part of the stress strain curve, which will lessen fatigue.

fatigue is caused when you are loading and unloading a part, steel has a pretty high fatigue limit.

also shear happens when something is overtorqued

the spacer is aluminum and so is the rim so the expansion rate is null, just torque the wheels evenly, spacers are use on many race cars

[68firebird]

Ok, I'm sold, I'll just get some small spacers, torque the rims on right and call it a day!!!!!!

[68firebird]

Got a chance to hit a cruise night with my babies on sunday night.

96739
96740


also started putting the interior back in as I stated I wanted to do a few posts ago. looking pretty good, just need a couple pieces I'm missing or that is broken, like passenger side arm pad.

96741
96742

[captainofiron]

Ok, I'm sold, I'll just get some small spacers, torque the rims on right and call it a day!!!!!!

yea you should be good, if you are worried, might as well replace the studs while you are down there, could get slightly longer ones to account for the spacers. But spacers do not magically break studs, I have seen it millions of times with people not torquing their lugs, and just standing on the lug wrench, and even worse not using the correct torque patter (star on 5 studs)

good luck man

[Buryingthesun]

as stated before, if you torque the wheels properly and dont hammer them on with an impact you will never have an issue with spacers. Not to mention you ALWAYS torque aluminum wheels

[lucky13firebird]

good to see you out and about and cruising. Nothing like enjoying the car with the family.

[Gil]

good to see you out and about and cruising. Nothing like enjoying the car with the family.
What he said ! Enjoy !
Gil

[Buryingthesun]

It looks as if we have traded rolls lol, I was out cruising last summer and your car was down.... Now my car is down and you are out cruising lol

[68firebird]

It looks as if we have traded rolls lol, I was out cruising last summer and your car was down.... Now my car is down and you are out cruising lol

HAHAHAHA, yea no kidding! you jumped into it feet first this time. I'm sorta jealous LOL.

[mikewoods]

The car is looking great Rene! I love the white with the black accents! Sorry if i missed it, but what is the backspacing on those 3rd gen wheels? I have a 17x8 wheel with 48 offset (6.4" backspacing) with a 1.25" spacer for a total backspace of 5.15". Running a 245/45/17 tire up front and its worked out well so far.

[68firebird]

The car is looking great Rene! I love the white with the black accents! Sorry if i missed it, but what is the backspacing on those 3rd gen wheels? I have a 17x8 wheel with 48 offset (6.4" backspacing) with a 1.25" spacer for a total backspace of 5.15". Running a 245/45/17 tire up front and its worked out well so far.

I'm really not quite sure what the backspacing is on these rims. all I know is they are off an 89 rs camaro. Both rims are labled front or back, and I have to have the fronts on the back and the backs on the front. They JUST clear the outer tie rod, hence why I need to throw a small spacer in just to get it a bit more away. I'd love to step it up to a decent set of 17 inch rims, but the funds don't allow that at this point.

[Buryingthesun]

HAHAHAHA, yea no kidding! you jumped into it feet first this time. I'm sorta jealous LOL.

Don't be, I'm all depressed driving my truck when my buddy's are all in there coolwhips

[68firebird]

Don't be, I'm all depressed driving my truck when my buddy's are all in there coolwhips

Yea, but when its done its gonna be badass!!!! just keep telling yourself that!

[68firebird]

not much going on here, been super busy with my kids sports these past couple weeks. picked up some thermo-tec starter heat shield material to hopefully get rid of the heat soak blues, and picked up a new o-ring for the tranny dipstick, to hopefully rid me of the leaky tranny blues! now just need to get to a lift somewhere cause I really don't feel like getting on my back for this!

[Gil]

Hi Rene,
Still a blues man or did you fix some things ?
Gil

[68firebird]

Hi Rene,
Still a blues man or did you fix some things ?
Gil

Hey Gil how's it going? sadly, I haven't laid a finger on my car. I don't have the time, money or motivation, it's under a car cover in the garage. Thanks for asking. How is your ride?

[Gil]

Time is missing for me too, probably start her this week-end to test drive the new front parts...

Well, don't be sad, we have periods we want to work & others we don't, but I prefer to be with my familly than lying under the car...

Regards
Gil

[Buryingthesun]

Yea, but when its done its gonna be badass!!!! just keep telling yourself that!

Im still telling myself once its done it will be fun. . . BUT ITS NOT WORKING

[Ols420]

I like the black trim. Looks great. 3638404244464850

[TANKMASTERJ]

I'm a sucker for a white first gen be it Camaro or Firebird.
Love the build and love that the kids enjoy it with you.
Jason