A-Body Suspension

[ProTouring442]

Ok guys, I have some ideas. Ok, I ALWAYS have an "idea," but these seem to keep bouncing around in my hollow little head.

I, like so many before me, have installed the B-Body tall spindles on the front of my 442. We all know that this adds to bump-steer, as well as increasing the turning radius. I would like some opinions on some of my ideas for remedying these problems.

1) can't a professional welder shorten the steering arm to match up with the original's length so the turning radius would be better?

ok, maybe that's not the greatest idea. How about:

2) what if you were to take lots of measurements, then move the mounting points on the frame so you could install the steering box, pitman arm, and idler arm from a 2nd gen firebird? They already used the B-Body spindles, so this should cure a lot of ills and won't mess with welding that nice spindle forging.

and if that won't work:

3) anybody adapt a rack & pinion to achieve any of these goals? What rack did you use to accomplish this?

finally:

4) does anyone know of a place that can rebuild a steering gearbox to increase the stops so the turning radius will be better? If this can be accomplished, how might one address the bump-steer issues associated with the use of these spindles?

As for the rear suspension, I think I will go with a GNX style torque-arm and panhard bar. This seems a good compromise style of suspension for the street, while improving handling capabilities.

Thanks for any input in advance, you guys rock!

[dennis68]

Ok guys, I have some ideas. Ok, I ALWAYS have an "idea," but these seem to keep bouncing around in my hollow little head.

I, like so many before me, have installed the B-Body tall spindles on the front of my 442. We all know that this adds to bump-steer, as well as increasing the turning radius. I would like some opinions on some of my ideas for remedying these problems.

1) can't a professional welder shorten the steering arm to match up with the original's length so the turning radius would be better?

Not a good idea, most spindles are cast iron and welding cast iron is a PITA as it is. Wedling cast iron in a highly stressed area as important as steering is asking for trouble.

2) what if you were to take lots of measurements, then move the mounting points on the frame so you could install the steering box, pitman arm, and idler arm from a 2nd gen firebird? They already used the B-Body spindles, so this should cure a lot of ills and won't mess with welding that nice spindle forging.

It has been done before. Huge amounts of work. Wouldn't be much easier to just use a spindle that have all the problems of the typical "tall spindle"?

3) anybody adapt a rack & pinion to achieve any of these goals? What rack did you use to accomplish this?

I know of 1 guy who was working on this, I don't think he ever finished.

finally:

4) does anyone know of a place that can rebuild a steering gearbox to increase the stops so the turning radius will be better? If this can be accomplished, how might one address the bump-steer issues associated with the use of these spindles?

No, the "A" body, Cherokee, Caprice boxes all have about 80* of turn which is the highest amount of swing any steering box has.

As for the rear suspension, I think I will go with a GNX style torque-arm and panhard bar. This seems a good compromise style of suspension for the street, while improving handling capabilities.

Thanks for any input in advance, you guys rock!

Cool, huge improvment over stock.

[wally8]

I wouldn't cut and reweld the arms.

You can dial the bumpsteer down to reasonable levels by lowering the mounting points and some use a different drag link (88 IROC Z). Then use a bumpsteer kit on the spindle side. I wouldn't say that it's a big deal to lower the mounts. It's done all the time. Like anything else you need to measure twice, drill once.....

Different spindles would be great but they're expensive, moreso than the DIY solution.

Still, I'm beginning to think that Coleman spindles and a relocated UCA mount is going to be the ultimate way to go for the A / G body. Stock spindles just don't seem to have the proper pin height and unless you relocate the stock UCA you have to do custom spindles as opposed to something off the shelf. This is to say nothing of the caliper bracket issues.

That and proper steering box relocation and you should have the perfect setup. Now to sit down and figure out the numbers......

Forgot to add: could someone post pictures of the GNX torque arm setup? I've never seen that.

Wally

[dennis68]

Wally, when using the B spindles on an "A" body the steering arms need to be raised, not lowered.

[Norm Peterson]

Forgot to add: could someone post pictures of the GNX torque arm setup? I've never seen that.

Wally

Look here and click on the "GNX Suspension" link on the left side of the page. By way of FYI, this site may come up with a "secure connection" message.

You'll note that this piece isn't a true torque arm (which attaches at the chassis with either a sliding connection or through a pair of rod ends and a short link or any other arrangement that permits the TA to plunge longitudinally as the suspension moves). It's more like a single centrally-located ladder bar, since it uses a pin connection at the chassis and relies on bushing compliance to accommodate roll and possibly 2-wheel bump motions as well. I suspect that tuning it primarily for cornering/handling involves a few unique solutions and/or things that may at first glance appear to be coincidental.

Norm

[wally8]

Thanks Norm. That's perfect. The arm looks pretty short.

Denny,

I've heard a lot of you say that but all the ones I've seen have still used bump steer kits on the bottom side. The steering box and idler have been lowered too. I haven't personally had a car with these though.

Wally

[dennis68]

To go through the trouble of relocating the steering box and ilder to correct the geometery (you'll still have a real slow steering ratio and a turning circle the size of a dually) is more work than just replacing the spindles. It would take lots of fab work to relocate the steering box on an "A" body.

[ProTouring442]

To go through the trouble of relocating the steering box and ilder to correct the geometery (you'll still have a real slow steering ratio and a turning circle the size of a dually) is more work than just replacing the spindles. It would take lots of fab work to relocate the steering box on an "A" body.

Not if I use the pitman arm and idler arm from the 2nd gen F-Body. Those arms are longer, and made to work with the B-Body spindles. I think moving the idler and gearbox forward would be pretty straightforward, moving them down might be a problem. Can the holes in the steering arms be welded up, and new tapers bored to put the outer tie rods on top of the steering arms?

[wally8]

You're right 442. That should do it.

Relocating the gear is pretty straight forward. Drill the holes oversize for the correct size tubing for the bolt holes for reinforcement. You'll have to sort of fab on the lower mount. It's not much of a trick if you're familiar with fabbing stuff up.

Turning radius is overrated anyway. I drive a Dodge Ram diesel every day so I live with that all the time. No big deal. :-)

Denny probably just doesn't want to take the hit on the collectible resale value of his truck :-)



Wally

[dennis68]

Denny probably just doesn't want to take the hit on the collectible resale value of his truck :-)

Wally

Yeah right, I'm pretty sure the purists cringe everytime I drive by. I don't think there is anything left of it for the collectors....wait, I haven't modified the wing windows yet. Of course I could cut holes to duct air to the driver and passenger helmets....

[Marcus SC&C]

That`s what I love so much about the B body spindle swap. All you have to do is change half the car around and they`ll work okay... All in an effort to get the stopping power and geometry of a Delta 88.... We`ve done a bunch of these swaps for customers over the years and tried to work out all the problems. It can be don`t but it`s not worth it IMO just to use cheap junkyard spindles. Marcus SC&C

[dennis68]

Is it possible Marcus that you and I agree on something??