4L80e install - Questions [Archive]

critter

12-18-2009, 10:53 AM

I have a bunch of them.

I'm about ready to try the swap from a TH400 to a 4L80e in my 1974 Trans Am. This will include paddle shifters from Twist. I purchased the transmission, TCU and harness used from a local source. That's why I don't have those instructions in front of me.

The controller is a TCI/FAST 301002 (I think this is the second generation type of TCU from them).
The wiring harness has a lable that says FAST 30216

First the wiring harness. I have multi wire leads that I'm not sure what they do or if they're needed in my retrofit. They are labled:
Trans Comp
Can Link
Dyno

I have individual wires. They are labled:
Cancel OD
Brake light
Cal A/B

I also have a question regarding the yoke. Will my TH400 yoke work or does it depend on the type of output shaft on the 80e? The yoke that was on it was the non-slip type that was bolted into the back of he output shaft.

More questions will follow, I'm sure. Thanks in advance.

oestek

12-18-2009, 12:04 PM

Here's the link to the quick start guide - maybe your answers are in here.

http://www.tciauto.com/Base/files/PDF/TCUQuickInstallationGuide.pdf

critter

12-18-2009, 01:49 PM

BigVin

12-19-2009, 06:04 AM

I've got that. I do appreciate the link. What I'm trying to understand is what I need doing this swap into a vintage car.

For instance, I know I don't have CAN links so I can ignore that but what's the Cal A/B do? Is that how I can set up switchable "calibrations" and if so, how is that wired?

You don't need the dyno wire. Cal A/B is for performance mode. You run that wire to a switch. A mode is for street driving B mode will step up trans pressure. Its been awhile since I did mine and I made a few calls to TCI but it was easy. You also need a TPS if it's carbed. I also think you have to get a different yoke and cut the drive shaft. It sounds like a lot of work but it is worth it.

critter

12-19-2009, 07:10 AM

BigVin

12-19-2009, 08:34 AM

Thanks, BigVin. I have the TPS ready to go since it is a carbed car. I think I can use my TH400 yoke but I'm checking into that. I spoke to the drive shaft shop yesterday and shouldn't have any problems there.

So do I have to use the brake light or cancel OD wires?

I Can't remember which one I used I do know this the instructions SUCK I called them so many times I put them on my speed dial. I did get it all sorted out and happy with the results. Keep calling them. I hope this helps
BIGVIN

Steve Chryssos

12-21-2009, 10:03 AM

Trans Comp: Plugs into yer laptop
Can Link: Connects to other FAST devices. I don't think this applies to you.
Dyno

I have individual wires. They are labled:
Cancel OD: For Ford installs
Brake light: Don't use. Unnecessary since your lock up is determined by speed
Cal A/B: Don't use. Unnecessary for our cars. Good for applications like towing where a large differential exists between the two modes. I.e. Towing (weight), snow, etc. For our cars, dual modes are fairly useless since the tables can be varied based on throttle position. For example a map can be written that is fairly soft at 0-20% tps and more radical from 30% to WOT. The curve does not need to be linear.

critter

12-21-2009, 05:10 PM

Thanks a ton, Steve.

I'll be calling you soon when I get headed forward on the paddles. I know it's taking forever but things stacked up on me.

critter

12-29-2009, 06:55 PM

My TH400 yoke has splines all the way, no counter bore. Can this be used as is?

Jake's Performance

12-29-2009, 09:43 PM

Chris,
It can be used, see how far it fits into the trans.

I got swamped today. I talked to the converter builder, we need to reconfigure it for the adapter plate. It needs stands added for the mounting as well as an extension on the pilot.

How thick is the TCI plate, 1/4"?

critter

12-30-2009, 10:19 AM

Jake, thanks for letting me know. TCI says use the hardened washers provided to correct for the stands. They also say to fit it and see if the original pilot won't pull in and center. If not, Trans Dapt makes a pilot bushing (TD-55) to take up the extra space. Can you get that part?

critter

12-30-2009, 06:51 PM

Ordered the bushing but I'm not sure if it will be in by tomorrow. This is slowing my down significantly. Sigh.

Jake, I appreciate the offer on sending the converter back and fixing things but I honestly thing this bushing might deal with the whole mess. I'll keep you posted.

Jake's Performance

12-30-2009, 10:47 PM

Definitely keep me updated. Take a pic of the bushing if you can.

Jake

critter

12-31-2009, 04:56 AM

I checked shipping just now. It should be in today. I'll have pictures and the part number. I'm working this up for a page on Blocker's Performance web site.

critter

12-31-2009, 03:16 PM

critter

01-01-2010, 06:59 PM

Build thread.

http://tinyurl.com/yjza523

critter

01-23-2010, 12:27 PM

More questions. If you're using an 11 inch aftermarket converter and not stock how many quarts of fluid should it need?

I have 10 in it and the Lokar dip stick shows over full even after running it for a while. I figured that, since stock is 14, I'd be under the mark, not over full. Maybe I have an air bubble?

Also, if you disconnect the battery should you have to hook up the laptop and flash the TCU with your profile again?

critter

01-24-2010, 10:10 AM

Hello? Is this thing on? ;)

I really could use some help here.

The car acts like my old TH400 would act if you were low on fluid. I can drop it in reverse or drive, take my foot off the brake and the car will move. However, if I apply any throttle it's as if the thing is slipping with little to no change in how the car moves.

I've got 13 quarts in it now and the fill for one with a stock converter is 14. Surely it's not low?

Before everyone asks, I have the Lokar firewall mount dipstick and the darned thing has show over full even at the 10 quart level. I don't trust it much at this point. I did check the level after having run the car for a while, with it in park and I did cycle through the gears a few times just for good measure.

Since I have the latest TCI TCU software, I had the ability to do data logging. I did a short log and ran it through a few gears. One thing I notice is that even with turbine speeds (I'm guessing that's referring to the converter) of 1000 rpm the line pressure it is logging is at 60 (PSI, again, guessing 'cause I'm new to the software) never changes. I do see the logged gear changes. I also see the TPS reading change where I hit the gas.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Steve Chryssos

01-24-2010, 03:14 PM

Put the rear wheels 2" off ground to take load off drivetrain during testing. No more driving. As for your fluid, I usually start with less fluid and sneak up on it. I don't top off until the fluid is up to full operating temp.

You can warm it up some on jackstands. View the dashboard screen to monitor all functions: Gear changes, TPS, line pressure, vehicle speed. Report after you have results from the dashboard screen. Also if you have an un-calibrated or miscalibrated speedo hooked up, disconnect it from the system.

critter

01-24-2010, 03:20 PM

No speedo hooked up, Steve. I've read your previous posts regarding that.

It's still in the lift bay. I can run up there tomorrow night and try to run it again with the car off the ground and the laptop hooked up. Does the data logging record all that. I did see gear changes, TPS, line pressure but not speed. I guess that would be because the wheels weren't turning? Anyway, I sure appreciate the help.

Steve Chryssos

01-25-2010, 04:41 AM

I prefer the dashboard. You have a computer that is reading sensors (TPS and VSS) and using that information to tell the transmission to operate (Line pressure and shift solenoids).

Use the dashboard to confirm that the trans is picking up data and asking the transmission to function. Also check to make sure your manual mode toggle switch is in the off position (automatic mode). Throw the switch both ways and watch for change on the dashboard.

For example, if you see the computer ask for a gear change, but nothing happens, you are likely to have a transmission problem--not a computer problem.

critter

01-25-2010, 12:13 PM

And for those keeping score at home, you do NOT need the bushing. We put it in, bolted up the transmission it jammed the converter up against the crank so tight you couldn't turn it. We yanked it out, bolted it up using the washers as per the instructions with TCI's adapter plate and it fit like a glove.

I wondering if I've answered my own question here? I forgot about this and I'm wondering if we damaged the pump when we did this?

Also, I realized I forgot to hook up the tach wire for engine rpm. Might that be affecting things?

Steve Chryssos

01-25-2010, 01:41 PM

I wondering if I've answered my own question here? I forgot about this and I'm wondering if we damaged the pump when we did this?

Also, I realized I forgot to hook up the tach wire for engine rpm. Might that be affecting things?

Possibly on the pump and no on the tach wire. To the best of my knowledge, RPM input is only important for WOT upshift on that system and totally unnecessary for Compushift.

Did you jam the converter in there?

critter

01-25-2010, 01:55 PM

Sorry, I'm not following your question regarding the converter. If you mean, was it jammed against the flywheel pretty tight, yes, tight enough that I couldn't spin it by hand so we backed it off.

If you mean did I jam the converter down onto the input shaft to seat it, I did it and then had my brother in law check it. I was pretty sure we had it seated properly but I'll check it again.

I'll try to get back in the shop tomorrow and hook up the laptop. By dashboard I'm guessing you mean the screen with all the real time virtual gauges displaying, correct? They call it the "Monitor" screen now.

Steve Chryssos

01-25-2010, 03:56 PM

Yup, the screen with real time gauges.

The converter must spin freely before installing bolts.

Steve Chryssos

01-27-2010, 06:09 AM

What's the good word big bird?

critter

01-27-2010, 07:47 AM

Sorry, Steve and all. I've been stuck at work and not able to get into the shop. Momma says no toys until the work is done! I'm hoping to get back up there tonight.

critter

01-27-2010, 06:43 PM

I did what you asked tonight. I also data logged it.

Watching the real time display it seemed everything was normal. The TPS was responding, the RPMs looked normal and it appeared to understand what gear it was in.

Reverse works but the forward gears just seem to not want to move under load as if the stall on the converter is WAY up there. Looking at the data logs I can see where it shifted all the way into OD but the logs show a lot of transmission slippage. It is a used transmission and I took the seller's word for it being solid. Looks like I might have been burned. Bryan says we need to get the gauges on it and I agree. If the ice storm doesn't stop me I'll be back there tomorrow night.

Jake's Performance

01-27-2010, 09:58 PM

Chris,
Reverse requires more pressure than any forward gears and also makes more due to the reverse boost function.

The only clutch that has to come on for 1st gear to work is the forward clutch. If it is working, the trans would at least have 1st gear and drive the tires.
It is also required to be on for every other forward gear.

If you have reverse, and it is driving the tires backwards, it tells me you have a properly functioning low band and 3rd gear clutch pack.

The converter installation sounds a bit scary to me, if the tran was bolted up to the block tight enough that the converter couldn't be turned, it has pretty good odds of having broken the pump gears.

If the stall was really loose, it would show up in reverse as well as forward. The converter can't differentiate the gear.

If you need any tech assistance for the trans side you know the number, give me a call.

Jake

critter

01-28-2010, 04:11 AM

Thanks Jake. I might be calling. The gauges should tell the tale. What should I look for on the gauges? Bryan will probably know or be able to find out via All Data but you guys are the experts.

critter

01-31-2010, 03:25 PM

So here's where I stand as of today.

TCI had looked at the data logs and asked that I recalibrate the base profile in the TCU. I went back through the wizard and created a new data log that I'll send to them. Unfortunately, with the ice and snow we have on the ground, all I was able to do was run the car in the shop, moving it back and forth. If anyone else has experience in reading these and wants to peek, let me know and I'll be happy to send it along.

The results were no different. The car seem fine in reverse but all the forward gears seem to slip. I then used the voltmeter to confirm the TPS was working. It is. We then hooked up a pressure gauge.

In reverse we had between 85-90psi at idle. It would increase with throttle increase.

In all forward gears it was 50psi and didn't budge with throttle position unless we stabbed the throttle. When we touched 3000 rpm or more it would suddenly spike the pressure over 100psi. I couldn't hold it there because I was still in the shop and I wasn't taking chances. It didn't actually feel like it was pulling against the brakes, I was just scared it might suddenly grab. I wish we hadn't had any snow, I could have put it on the parking lot and tried.

So I'm asking for opinions again. Is this electrical or mechanical. I'm open to going into the pan if need be. After that, it may be time to yank it and head for the tranmission shop.

critter

01-31-2010, 05:54 PM

How critical is fill level on these transmissions?

makoshark

01-31-2010, 08:44 PM

My TH400 would start shifting soft at 1/2 a quart low. It would slip big time at 1 quart low. Proper oil level on autos is important to function properly

Steve Chryssos

02-02-2010, 10:19 AM

I don't think you have a fluid level issue. Or a computer issue. I think it's time to yank the trans and converter.

All of the bad smells are wafting from that direction.

critter

02-02-2010, 11:39 AM

Agreed. Internal seal issue allowing it to bleed off pressure in the forward gears. I'm going to drop the pan tonight for a quick look and then, probably take it out and trot on down to the transmission shop, checkbook in hand. Sigh.

Steve Chryssos

02-02-2010, 12:07 PM

That bad news will be good news in the long run. You will be much happier since a well built 4L80E will shift better. Stock 4L80E's can be very lazy regardless of the electronic tune.

critter

02-02-2010, 02:13 PM

Any suggestions on what to ask the shop to pay attention to on the rebuild. Do I need a shift kit?

critter

02-05-2010, 07:42 AM

And the winner is...

Burned clutches and steels all the way through. Reverse and second were the least damaged. Second gear being the least damaged kind of surprised him. He said he normally sees that one go first. The pump was fine. He suspects, since the car never really moved for us, that they were gone before we put it in.

I've learned my lesson. I'll only buy new transmissions from now on. No more used units for me.

JeffT

02-11-2010, 11:42 AM

Chris, who's going through the trans for you?

critter

02-11-2010, 12:23 PM

Superior in Jacksonville. They did a TH400 for me that did pretty good. Avoid Rob's at all cost.

critter

02-14-2010, 12:49 PM

I did not intend to bother Bryan today but he called last night and asked if we could work on it today. He has a busy week next week and needed for the car to be gone or at least be able to move it without pushing it.

We got it all back together. The good news is that it pulls like it should now. The bad news is that I can't get it to change gears until it hits 3000rpm. I know I'm doing something wrong in programming the TCU and I've sent the TCU setup and the data log to TCI for their input. I'm open to thoughts.

critter

02-15-2010, 05:59 PM

The frustration level has hit 10. Even after triple checking the TPS voltage and reprogramming the TCU it's still slipping and not shifting. The fluid is starting to have a slight burned smell again. No more driving it for data logging. I'm about to put that TH400 back in it. I can't afford another transmission rebuild.

I'll send in the data log I made from tonights drive tomorrow but it appears to me that the TCU line pressure DROPS when TPS voltage goes up. Am I reading this incorrectly? The value is 60 at idle and goes down on that gauge as RPM and TPS voltage increase. I don't understand.

This appears for all the world like a low pressure situation. The car goes solidly in to gear in reverse and drive. You can take your foot off the brake and it move just like you'd expect. As soon as I apply throttle it begins to slip and it never shifts out of first gear.

critter

02-17-2010, 07:29 PM

Just to follow up this thread, Chris from TCI did contact me by phone and has gone over the data logs with me. He says it appears the TCU is doing what it should but he has tweaked the TCU file for me. I'll upload that when I'm back in the shop.

The transmission builder insists that this is a TPS issue, even though the TCU is seeing the voltage. I asked another builder who specializes in performance 4L80e transmissions (Jake). He's asking me to run figures with a pressure gauge because he suspects pump problems, even though it has been rebuilt.

My plan is to double check the hook up of the wiring harness and then hook up the gauge and run Jake's recommended test for line pressure. Then I'm going to replace the TPS, TISS and TOSS.

critter

02-18-2010, 05:39 PM

Just to keep this one man thread rolling...

I got a gauge on it tonight.

With the harness hooked up:
Park and Drive - 0-10psi (WTF?)
Reverse - 50psi

With the harness unhooked:
Park and Drive - 150psi
Reverse - 300psi

critter

02-19-2010, 10:44 AM

I spoke with Jake Shoemake today. While he thinks it could be the force motor (Pressure Control Solenoid) he recommended I call Powertrain Control Solutions and ask their advice. They make the TCI controller it seems.

Their tech was most helpful. His advice was to look at the harness first. He says that the TCU seldom has problems but if the harness Ohms out correctly they'd be happy to test it for me. That's good customer service.

critter

02-21-2010, 05:04 PM

The harness ohm'd out perfectly. Tomorrow night's project is to reinstall the harness and check the amperage output that would be send via TPS position to the force motor (Pressure Control Solenoid) inside the transmission.

critter

03-01-2010, 12:57 PM

To bring everyone up to speed on where I am with this project, I ran the tests that TCI asked me to run with the TPS and reported those pressures. I then decided I had valve body issues based on their advice. Jake and I talked and he suggested a new boost valve and spring. Jake did NOT build this transmission. I figured if I was going in to do that I might as well ad a shift kit and Jake is supplying that.

In the interim, I ran the pressure test Jake asked for that required removing the harness and running the RPM up to about 1500. When we did that we had 170psi in Park and Drive and 320psi in reverse. That is exactly what we should be seeing according to the ATSG and Jake.

I've run that back at TCI for their comment since, when you take their electronics out of the equation, the damned thing is doing exactly what it should.

79-TA

03-04-2010, 12:14 AM

Just wondering . . . since you're working out the bugs with getting the more modern electric transmission in a 2nd gen, how hard would it be to step up to a 6L80? I assume (but do not know for sure if) it is the same size as the 4L65 and 4L80.

Anyway, keep up the good work!

critter

03-04-2010, 06:40 AM

All it takes is $$$. More than I have. ;)

Then again, I'm not sure any of the aftermarket controllers will work with it.

I'd settle for this one working.

Jake's Performance

03-04-2010, 07:10 AM

The 6L80/6L90 series trans are LARGE even compared to a 4L80E.
They look like an Allison.

They also have MUCH more complex electronic controls and the controller is internal to the transmission.

I don't believe they will ever make a good performance transmission due to the design. It is a synchronous shift unit so every gear must be timed for proper shifting.

They shift like a school bus, dump truck, garbage truck... take your pick.

critter

03-06-2010, 02:51 PM

I intended to install the new boost valve and shift kit today but I woke up feeling like crap and called Bryan. He had other things to do today as well. I borrowed my old trailer and and brought it home so I could work on in next week.

The funny thing is, when I backed it out of the shop it felt pretty good. Pulling it on the trailer it felt better. Getting it off the trailer and into the garage didn't feel bad either. That's the first time the car has been moved since I put "MY" program in the computer. Screw TCI. I'm going to do some tweaking with the tables and see what I get. I can tell you that I have the pressure gauge on it and the numbers looked a lot better based on the little bit I did today.

critter

03-18-2010, 04:46 PM

Just so you know I've not abandoned the project. boo-yah
I decided to work on some other stuff related to the swap and get back to the actual transmission a bit later.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/27-1.jpg

130fe

03-19-2010, 05:13 AM

Gauges look good, what kind are they?

critter

03-19-2010, 07:18 AM

Speedhut.

JeffT

03-19-2010, 11:14 AM

Nice looking gauges.

joejaze

03-19-2010, 11:20 AM

critter

03-19-2010, 11:40 AM

I'm going to have to put some kind of resistor in to lower the brightness a bit. I wanted to keep my stock gauges everywhere else. These gauges came closest to matching what the factory put in while giving me features like recall on the tach and speedo, progressive shift light, etc.

critter

03-29-2010, 05:36 PM

We finally got the club car show done this weekend so I'm back at it. Just wanted to let you, the viewing public know that I built another table where it should apply full line pressure at anything over 13 percent TPS. Sure enough, I was seeing 170-180 psi in drive when I did that. I had the car on jack stands. I still haven't driven it. I'm thinking I'll drop in the last profile that was showing 140 psi at 2000 RPM and take a quick jaunt soon.

aronhk_md

03-31-2010, 02:30 AM

Hey Chris.....waiting as patiently as I can to hear the results...lol. Thanks for sharing the info by phone.

Aron

Steve Chryssos

03-31-2010, 05:23 AM

Me too. Give me a call when you can.
/S

critter

03-31-2010, 01:34 PM

Bear with me. Life keeps getting in the way of my shop time. Sorry for the slow progress.

aronhk_md

03-31-2010, 06:18 PM

Totally understand

critter

04-06-2010, 06:06 PM

Have you ever had a project that pushed you to the edge of selling it all and buying a KIa?

You've all been privy to my struggles with the 4L80e transmission swap. I got so frustrated that I parked it in my garage and left it for a while. The crazy part was, when I did what I thought was right and quit listening to TCI (they sell the transmission control unit made by Powertrain Control Solutions) it seemed much better. That involved making major changes to the table that controlled the throttle position sensor VS line pressure. Of course my opinion was based on my putting it on the trailer and pulling it off the trailer and into the garage.

So I figured I'd take a break from flailing at the transmission and install the electronic gauges. What the heck, that would be fairly non-invasive and allow me to still keep moving forward, right? Wrong. I put it all together and the new electronic tach didn't budge. Oh, and the temperature gauge I wanted to retain didn't work either. I decided that I'd swap my known, good working oil pressure/temperature gauge into the modified cluster. That was no big deal The tach manufacturer was called regarding the non-functioning tach. After a few tests it was returned to them for repair.

I bought a Speedhut Revolution series speedometer and tachometer because they could be fitted to the stock dash bezel without modification. In that respect, they work as advertised. Today the repaired tach came back and I went to work. Sure enough, this time it powered up and I was able to set the shift point and the progressive lights leading to the shift point. It even allowed me to set the brightness level.

Then I fired up the car. At roughly 2000 RPM and up it was steady and showed the progressive shift lights as advertised. At idle it bounced like Tigger from Whinny The Pooh on a combined caffeine and sugar rush. Hey, no big deal, I'll cut that purple loop wire that they say to cut if you have excessive electronic noise and and erratic needle. So I did. Now it reads the idle just swell. Of course it won't read any RPM over about 2500 but, hey, you can't have everything, can you?

LOL.

Critter
(gotta laugh at this point)

critter

04-12-2010, 05:29 PM

I drove it tonight.

I thought it might be slipping still but the pressure was right. The converter may just that loose. Once it stalls up it goes. The pressures are so high it's BANGING the 2-3 shift but when it does, it hunts between the 2-3 shift.

I data logged it so I'll review. I've got to do 2 things. First is soften up the line pressure. The other is lower the shift points. Jake, if you read this, should the converter be pretty soft or should it feel more like a street converter?

critter

04-18-2010, 02:05 PM

I made some progress today.

After airing up the flat tire I realized that I should recalibrate the TCU after putting the new wheels and tires on. They are slightly shorter. While I was at it I installed that profile that TCI sent and I'd upped the line pressure by 10 percent. Then I recalibrated the TPS for good measure.

I took it for a drive and watched the pressure gauge. The pressures were more in the 120 psi range when driving now and the "shift" was firm but not harsh. I say "shift" because it would make the 1-2 shift as you'd expect. However, I never could get it to make the 2-3 shift unless I let off the gas. Then, it seemed that I needed to be above about 30mph for the 2-3 shift to kick in. I could then cruise in 3rd unless the speed dropped below that 30mph mark again.

I went into the shift point tables and tried dropping the upshift point on the table by 10 percent but it didn't seem to help any. I fiddled around with some other ideas but nothing seemed to help.

I think I'm on the verge of having this worked out if I can work through this upshift problem. I'm sure I'll need to do some minor tweaking after that but I'd sure like to get it all the way through the gears, up and and down one time!

turbo kid

04-26-2010, 02:23 PM

Remember the 4l80e has 2 vss

critter

05-04-2010, 03:27 PM

OK, I'm going to eat my words on TCI and their tech folks. They asked that I send them the harness and computer. Both have tested out fine. Now the tech, Russell Culver, is offering to drive it back to my house, help me re-install it and see if we can sort it out. That, my friends, is customer service.

I'd ad that I did find some slop in my TPS when I was pulling it all apart to send to TCI. I've replaced that TPS so hopefully that will help as well. Russ, like me, is puzzled by the odd datalog regarding the speed sensors. Might be we have bad sensors but more on that later.

Man, I'm learning a LOT about the 4L80e transmission. That's one good thing about all this.

critter

05-09-2010, 10:27 AM

OOps!

Russ came over and we spent the morning tuning. He couldn't figure out why the thing needed so much throttle position to achieve a shift. Then he asked me about the carb. When I said Quadrajet the light went on. The small primaries require a lot of throttle position to achieve the same amount of "go" from the car. They don't tune much for Qjets. There you go.

I drove, he worked the computer and by the end of the morning he had it shifting pretty nicely. He had to pull the shift points WAY down because of the carb and torque of the motor. Then he said we needed to run it WOT a few times just to see what we had.

I still had the pressure gauge tapped into the transmission. On the second WOT it spun until 30mph (data logs are cool) and then hooked. It started hunting between gears so he had me get out of it. When I did, the pressure spiked and WOOSH! The pressure blew that hose off the fitting that went into the transmission. AT fluid hit the exhaust and we had quite a smoke show going.

The good news was that I was out of it when it let go and we just coasted down to the foot of the hill. I don't think I really hurt anything. I called AAA and had the roll back operator dump it back in the garage. I'll crawl under there, pull the remains of that fitting and plug it now that I know we're in pretty good shape on the tune. The I'll fill it back up with fluid and go again.

it's always something.

My snail trail:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

The offending gauge:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I'll have a mess to clean up under the car:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Russell Culver from TCI was still tuning on it after the incident. Thanks Russ!:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

At least I had time to make a photo of the car with the new wheels and tires while I waited:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

fishtail8

05-10-2010, 05:31 AM

Glad to hear you're finally getting somewhere with this deal. Almost ready to log some seat time, good on TCI for helping you out a ton.

Kenova

05-10-2010, 06:53 AM

critter

05-10-2010, 06:57 AM

I'm guessing it was a large part of it. And me being a newbie to the interface, I wasn't sure how to adjust things. Russ did a fine job of working through it and will now take that knowledge back to their support group to help future users like me. I can't say enough about the fact that he came to me and helped work this out. That was outstanding customer support.

BonzoHansen

05-10-2010, 12:05 PM

Wow, 3 cheers for Russ. You better have bought him a good dinner!

critter

05-11-2010, 08:48 AM

I did manage to buy him a beer and some lunch. I wanted him to hang around for our cruise in and ZZ Top concert that night but he had to get back for a school he had to attend on Saturday on EFI. Trust me, I won't forget his help. Somewhere, I'll be able to take care of him.

aronhk_md

05-15-2010, 08:44 PM

Hey Chris....glad to see its up and running correctly now. Have you had a chance to enjoy it at all? Can't wait to do the 4L80 conversion, but looks like winter now before I go there. Want to enjoy the car over the summer.

Aron

critter

05-16-2010, 04:06 AM

No, not much yet. The spring monsoons have begun and I'm installing the Shrifter now. I was hoping to button that up this weekend. I might get it back on the road next week.

aronhk_md

05-16-2010, 06:37 PM

I'm jealous.....I love the wheels. Dont want to trade them for an old set of 15" centerlines do ya?

LOL

critter

05-18-2010, 07:20 PM

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/paddles-1.jpg

I ran out of time today so no test drive. I'm itching to go though.

My special thanks to Steve Chryssos who spent some time on the phone with me today helping the village idiot figure out the wiring. The computer show everything to be operating as expected. I'm pumped!

NOT A TA

05-18-2010, 08:23 PM

Ah... The part I've been waiting for! The Paddle Shifters!!!! Glad top see ya got the trans issue straightened out. SEE ya shoulda took back the Demon and tried it LOL!!! Wheels look good!

critter

05-18-2010, 09:00 PM

He's alive! Where have you been? We miss you on Thursday night chat.

Don't let that Demon get away. I might have to buy that back from you some day. For now, I've got the Quadrajet and linkage working but that Demon was still the sweetest carb I ever ran. (But I NEED FI)

NOT A TA

05-19-2010, 06:59 AM

Been working in the machine shop nights. Gonna start porting the heads for the Malibu engine tonight. I've been watching this thread but had nothing to contribute. Carb's still in the box, if ya need it let me know!

critter

05-19-2010, 07:47 AM

I was teasing about the Demon. That's your carb and you can do what you want with it. Even if that means leaving it in the box. LOL.

Hey, glad to hear you're playing with the toys. It's no fun to have them and not get to piddle around. Enjoy.

critter

05-19-2010, 04:45 PM

I snuck out for a quick test tonight before the storms moved in. It was only to the end of the street and back but I have say that paddle shifters are the shiznit!

Steve Chryssos

05-27-2010, 04:24 PM

I'm glad you are finally having fun. And that right there is the first ever application of a Trans Am steering wheel with a paddle shifter. Congrats.

aronhk_md

05-27-2010, 04:52 PM

Chris,

With the compushift setup do you get compression braking when downshifting? If so is it adjustable? I know that with one of the other computers you dont......but I think its a computer function and some will?

Aron

critter

05-29-2010, 09:38 AM

Mine is the TCI and no, I don't think you do unless the trans is built for it. Someone smart needs to speak up here if I've got this wrong.

I'm calling it a done project, even though my speedometer isn't working yet. That's got to be a wiring issue. I took it for a drive this morning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dveiiwrdNNQ

aronhk_md

05-29-2010, 12:16 PM

Thanks Chris.....video looks great by the way. Just as an aside.....one of the hardest parts about using a paddle shifter I imagine would be in a turn. I am upgrading my steering box to a 1987 GTA/WS6 box which has a tighter steering ratio than the earlier trans ams. Paid $25 plus shipping for a used one, and its apparently bolt in other than adapting with metric fittings and a new rag joint I believe. Gonna try it anyway...lol.

I cant wait to get to my 4L80 project, but its back burner for the moment with a few other things first. I'm going to try designing my own "paddle shifters" though using plates and instant switches.

I noticed the delay on your setup between the click of the paddle and the shift. That is adjustable with the computer, correct?

critter

05-29-2010, 06:01 PM

Yes, the clicking is the shifts. I'm still learning how to use it. One thing I know is that the transmission takes much longer to respond under part throttle than when I'm into it hard. You can hear that in the video. There may be a way to do some tuning regarding that but I've not looked into it yet.

machota154

05-31-2010, 03:17 PM

Critter, How did you hook up the paddle shifter to the stock streering wheel.???

critter

05-31-2010, 04:43 PM

Call Steve at Twist. He's got it now. He can machine you a paddle setup like mine. The paddles bolt in place of the stock collar. The adapter he provides mounts the stock wheel. You will lose your horn assembly unless you're creative like me and build a setup to make it work but other than that it's a bolt on. Call him.

machota154

05-31-2010, 05:15 PM

Thanks for the info. I am following your build, cant wait for more post on your test drives. Thanks again, David:drive:

Steve Chryssos

06-01-2010, 04:20 PM

Hi Aron,
Engine braking is not a function of the paddle shifter or the computer. It's a mechanical modified 2-3 shift valve that changes when the overrun clutch is applied. The mod is not available for 4L80E's

As for the Shrifter®, it takes 125 milliseconds for the paddle shifter to TELL the transmission to shift. You hear two clicks for each paddle shifter input: the first click is the sound of our relay circuit closing. Once the circuit is complete the TCU has been told to shift.
The second click you hear is the relay opening back up. That occurs 1 second after the circuit closes. This built in safety measure prevents the user from inputting double taps.

After the signal has been sent (.125 sec), the transmission itself takes time to complete the gear change. Chris' trans sounds like it shifts fairly quickly. He could raise line pressures at low throttle angles to speed up shift times, but to some degree, the trans must be built on the firm side to take advantage of the tuning. And you have to WANT the firm shifts at very low throttle angles.

aronhk_md

06-03-2010, 01:49 AM

Thanks Steve.....guess thats one downside to the 4l80e. Id really like compression braking. Guess its not a perfect world though. What keeps me from going with a 6 speed is the time during shifts it would take for the turbo to completely spool again and also I dont know of any 6 speed capable of handling 1100 hp.

Steve Chryssos

06-03-2010, 07:48 AM

I know that engine braking sounds like a focal point, but the right torque converter and proper trans set up are way more important.

critter

06-05-2010, 01:27 PM

My speedometer is still not working. I thought I'd messed up the wiring or something but I took it all apart again today and checked. That appears to be correct. I have the orange wire that is speedo out from the TCU going to the speedometer.

I stripped that wire back and hung a volt meter on it just to see if it had any signal. I've got zero voltage. I tried it in gear and out of gear, rolling and setting still (car has rear end up on jack stands). Shouldn't I be reading something there?

Jake's Performance

06-06-2010, 11:17 AM

Chris,
Swap the speed sensors from front to rear and see if that fixes it.

The TCU should be seeing VSS to operate but...

Here's a 4L80E with transbrake we installed yesterday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00qx69D-VDY

Jake's Performance

06-06-2010, 11:19 AM

I can do a 4L80E with engine braking in 2nd and 3rd, possibly in 1st as well.

aronhk_md

06-06-2010, 06:21 PM

streetfytr - those are important too, but compression braking would still be nice.

Jake - You mentioned you can do it, but can it be done without sacrificing anything else in an 1100 hp car? Also you mention possibly in 1st....has this been done or just ideas you have to try?

Can you do this with any of the computer setups?

Sorry Chris......didnt mean to hijack your thread.

Jake's Performance

06-06-2010, 07:30 PM

During the year of designing and testing to develop my transbrake for a 4L80E I learned several potential mods for the 4L80E.

I can do a spragless VB for the 4L80E that will eliminate the sprag in big power applications. This would also give engine braking in 2nd gear.

I can do engine braking in 2nd gear with a sprag type as well.

I can make it a 6 speed (waste of time IMO and also detrimental to the reliability).

Using paddle shifters you can put the trans in D3 and have engine braking in 3rd stock.
I can pretty easily make it have 2nd gear braking. Low gear is a bit more complicated but I can do it as well.

We have a few VB's in the works.

The full engine braking VB would actually be beneficial in big power applications and the spragless is best in a race only BIG power application.

aronhk_md

06-08-2010, 11:26 AM

I will be in touch with you when I'm ready Jake. I decided not to buy from Hughes because I'd rather buy from you, but due to job circumstances I am not sure exactly when it will be yet. Thanks

critter

06-20-2010, 05:40 PM

So I'm back again.

I figure I need to deal with the lack of neutral safety switch and I'd also like to put a gear indicator light up on the dash for when I'm using the paddle shifters. So I was poking around on the Dakota Digital site and came up with the following products:

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=60/category_id=401/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd60.htm

And:

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=64/category_id=401/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd64.htm

So other than having another mess of wires to run, what do you think? That should get the job done, shouldn't it?