Manual or Hydroboost?

[Bowtie78]

Looking at putting some Baer Pro-Plus Brakes 14" front and rear on my 68 Camaro and with a recent engine change my vacuum booster no longer works. Car is 90% street 10% road course/ autocross. I have had people say definitely hydroboost or definitely manual. I dont want excessive pedal effort but also dont want them to lock up really easy either due to such large brakes and a lot of assist. I have never driven anything with a performance manual setup or hydroboost with this big of breaks so hit me up with your opinions

[silver69camaro]

If it's a street car, go with power brakes. Personally I don't like to feel of hydroboost setups, I prefer vacuum.

But then again, I prefer manual over anything else - but I know most would rather have power brakes for the street.

[Bowtie78]

only have 9-10 in/hg at idle, vacuum not an option

[Bowstring]

I put a hydroboost on my "74 Camaro with Wilwoods and love it. Fantastic stopping power, good pedal feel and easy to modulate.

[gkring]

I am going with manual and if I don't like it I will convert over to hydroboost later. Cheaper to do it that way than spend the money to go hydroboost just to remove it later.

[turner69camaro]

I just put hydroboost on my S10 that runs 10's on motor and 9's on spray and love it. I love having power steering and power brakes that will stop on a dime. I got my hydroboost unit off a 93 Astro van for $20 at a local salvage yard. Bought my master cylinder for $30 at NAPA and ordered my lines and fittings from Jegs. Got about $250 tops in it. Line and fittings was the most expensive part.

[Vegas69]

I am going with manual and if I don't like it I will convert over to hydroboost later. Cheaper to do it that way than spend the money to go hydroboost just to remove it later.

Not much since you will need to buy a different master cylinder with hydraboost. I have manual brakes on my car and have 3k on the clock with 3 autocrosses and 1 roadcourse race. I like them alot on the race track. Especially if they get some heat in them. Not crazy about them on the street. There is alot of slow speed pedal effort. I'd go hydraboost for 90% street car.

[gkring]

I remember being told by Frank at Prodigy you can use the same master cylinder, I would have to double check that info. I am using a typical wilwood master. I still think it is better to start out with no hydroboost and add it later if you are unsure. That way you know. More plumbing, work, and cost to have the hdroboost. Not saying one is better than the other because I do not know and it matters on the application and personal preference. I agree that in 90% of the cases the hydroboost will be better. I also think that most guys here don't consider themselves in that 90%, right or wrong.

[68Formula]

I just put hydroboost on my S10 that runs 10's on motor and 9's on spray and love it. I love having power steering and power brakes that will stop on a dime. I got my hydroboost unit off a 93 Astro van for $20 at a local salvage yard. Bought my master cylinder for $30 at NAPA and ordered my lines and fittings from Jegs. Got about $250 tops in it. Line and fittings was the most expensive part.

Do you have part numbers? Did it require bracket fabrication?

Thanks.

[Apogee]

I remember being told by Frank at Prodigy you can use the same master cylinder, I would have to double check that info. I am using a typical wilwood master. I still think it is better to start out with no hydroboost and add it later if you are unsure. That way you know. More plumbing, work, and cost to have the hdroboost. Not saying one is better than the other because I do not know and it matters on the application and personal preference. I agree that in 90% of the cases the hydroboost will be better. I also think that most guys here don't consider themselves in that 90%, right or wrong.

Do what sounds good to you as folks are happy with both. As for the MC, you wouldn't want to use the same one from a manual setup with a hyrdro-boost...it would be like a light switch with zero modulation. You'd also probably run out of stroke due to the increased system gain/pressures combined with the system compliance.

Tobin
KORE3

[Vegas69]

Exactly, I'd want the extra fluid volume allowed by a hydraboost which is a side effect of the larger bore master.

[turner69camaro]

Do you have part numbers? Did it require bracket fabrication?

Thanks.

I didn't have to do much fabrication at all on the S10 because it used the same brake pedal rod. What I plan to do on my Camaro is cut the rod on the hydroboost unit weld a 2" or 3" sleave on the rod and then cut a Camaro rod and insert it on the other side and weld it. I used a round track late model power steering pump with remote canister with head mounted bracket from Speedway Motors. I didn't have room for a power steering unit down below to use a factory power steering unit. I think the only other modification would be to make the hole in the firewall a little bigger for the hydroboost to stick thru and it bolts on with four bolts. MAKE SURE YOU GET A HYDROBOOST UNIT FROM A 1990 - 1993 ASTRO VAN! It has a flat bracket and installs flat on the firewall. Most units will have a tilted bracket. You can modify the bracket but it takes forever. I used a late model truck rebuilt mastercylinder part #390257 from NAPA that cost $30. I would recommend going to a parts place like NAPA or some place they can look up part numbers.Below is a list of part numbers for early model mastercylinders that will work as well.

36306 - GM Camaro 1.125 bore
39052 - GM C6 Corvette 1.125 bore
39018 - GM C3 Corvette 1.125 bore - uses deep push rod
36367 - GM C3 Corvette 1.000 bore - uses deep push rod

Below is a diagram of how it all installs. I hope this helps everyone.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Taman]

I run a SSB electric vacuum pump. A little noisy but I get 22 in. of vacuum. I am probably going to switch to a hydra boost if I can't find an electric pump out of some luxury car.

[HILROD]

I've done Hydroboost in like 5 cars now. They all are great! As long as you have power steering I wouldn't do anything else.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I remember being told by Frank at Prodigy you can use the same master cylinder, I would have to double check that info.

NO, you need a different master. But what I do offer all my brake customers is a free test. You have a 7/8" master. If you do not like the manual brakes, I will take your 7/8" master on trade for even money on the proper 1 1/8" master you need for the boosted system.

[Vegas69]

Sweet......LOL

[mnm99]

I had them all. Power , Hydroboost and now manual. It really sucks when you have a problem with hydroboost. I did. It locked up my brakes every time I turned the wheel. I may be a rare case, but there's alot more to go wrong the way I look at it. I just installed a 15/16 bore master with stock disks and I love them.

[MuscleRodz]

I had them all. Power , Hydroboost and now manual. It really sucks when you have a problem with hydroboost. I did. It locked up my brakes every time I turned the wheel. I may be a rare case, but there's alot more to go wrong the way I look at it. I just installed a 15/16 bore master with stock disks and I love them.Power steering pump was failing or incorrect for use with hydroboost. PS pump for use with HB needs at least 3 gpm to work properly.

[ITLBTU]

I contemplated the same on my Camaro, but I left it manual. It stops great and I have 4wheel disc. I don't remember the bores, but I have the ATS kit with the C5 discs up front, and a LT1 rear disc on the back... for what it's worth...

[rob07002]

13" 6 pot and 12" 4 pot Wilwoods with manual 7/8" bore mc and love it.

Like Vegas said though, they seem to work a bit better with some heat, but for me I like to feedback I get when stopping and I've had to halt her from short distances on the street.

[oestek]

I'm an official hydro-evangelist. Love 'em. Sometimes they can be noisy with a goofy pump, but once sorted out, they're great.

[andrewb70]

Manual brakes FTW!

Andrew

[GRNOVA]

13" 6 pot and 12" 4 pot Wilwoods with manual 7/8" bore mc and love it.

Like Vegas said though, they seem to work a bit better with some heat, but for me I like to feedback I get when stopping and I've had to halt her from short distances on the street.

Are you running a porp. valve? What brake pressure are u seeing?

[rob07002]

No prop valve, stock dist block. I have no idea of the pressure, I'm just going by feel.

[silver69camaro]

Power steering pump was failing or incorrect for use with hydroboost. PS pump for use with HB needs at least 3 gpm to work properly.


That sucks. Then you can't adjust steering weight by reducing fluid flow; most systems require less than 3GPM for a good weight. You'd have to soley rely on the T-bar for adjustment.

[peakperf]

I'm not positive but in theory a pressure bypass valve from Heidt's installed after the hydroboost assist unit and tied into the low pressure return line should work. You can get 3GPM to the brake unit then reduce it before it gets to the rack.

http://www.classicperform.com/tech_articles/AdjPropValve1.pdf