1st gen Camaro suspension upgrades - differences?? What to do?

[BuddyP]

Hey guys, been searching around on the sites for a few days now and see there are quit a few different suspension setup's out there. Here's are my plans of now for a suspension upgrade (my car is completely torn apart ready for restoration at this point... and I have to be cautious of funds)...



Poly bushings all the way around
New shocks (KYB or Bilstein) all the way around
2" drop up front using springs
1 1/8" Hotchkis swaybar
1 1/2" drop in rear

I also see people are using tubular front arms and even going as far as coil over setups.

So first off what is the best setup out there? And of that being a "10" and stock original setup (of the showroom) being a "1" where would my above setup be figured in at and also where would that above be figured in with tubular arms? Just trying to get a feel of what area I'll be in. Not looking to race or push the car hard, just want a good solid feel in the corner.

BTW, I plan on using subframe connectors.

Thanks
Buddy P
[email protected]

[harshman]

A little bird told me to not go with tubular arms (waste of money). My fine feathered friend told me to use Global West offset upper arm shafts and their Del-a-lum bushings along with the Guldstrand mod with stiff springs. Go with a high quality oil filled shock (Bilstein) and 1 1/8 hollow sway bar up front (Hotchkins).
Typical muiti-leaf springs in the rear (Global West Cat 5 or DSE) to match up with the spring lb up front and use lowering blocks to slightly (no more than 1”) adjust the height in the rear.
Install the coils and let them settle for 30 days prior to cutting them to achieve height.
As far as alignment – contact “chicane67” for that info and any other info that you might need.

[68BNUT]

Harshman I totally agree on the GW uppers and stiff springs. I just finished putting that on my 68 used 700# afco springs and hidden adjusters, rides good now just need to do the back end.

[harshman]

The sad thing is that NOW I’ve learned this. Why couldn’t it have been a few years ago and a few hundred less!! Now I need to redo my suspension and junk some of my parts.

[BuddyP]

harshman, I have the mag with your car in it.. . very nice!!

I went to GW's website and found the upper arm offset shafts, can these be used with stock upper arms? What exactly does the offset do (GW's site doesn't really give much for a description).

Thanks!!
Buddy P

[harshman]

Give ‘em a call. I trust that they will not try to get you to buy their arms but give you some good tech. From my understanding it changes the geometry of your stock arms to something more favorable. I haven’t done this yet to my car but my source knows what he/she is talking about.

[BuddyP]

What componants do you currently have setup on your car?

[TitoJones]

Harshman has a dead bone stock front suspension system, with a set of disc brakes on the car.
The off set crossshafts provide 2 things- They give you more caster right off the bat, and the studded ends provide a better hold down system for the Del-a-lum bushings. If I were you, I'd stay FAR away from the poly bushings, and go with the GW bushings. It acts more like a bearing thatn a bushing, allowing smoother suspension travel, letting the control arms do what they are supposed to do.
Tyler

[harshman]

Stiff springs, hotchkins 1 1/8” bar and kyb shocks, and polyurethane bushings. I cut the springs too soon and got a bitchin’ stance but I can’t go over speed bumps without dragging something. I ended up using spring spacers to keep the nose up. The rear is stock with traction bars – blah with air shocks (it came that way). Yup, I’m the poster child of “I thought I knew what I was doing until I found pro-touring.com”.
The car handles well but I’m sure that I will be in for a huge surprise when I redo the front end again – the right way.
Lately I’ve been on a mission to determine if the high dollar a-arms were worth the money. I am a fabricator and I know how much the material costs that goes into those arms. I couldn’t justify the price tag without some handling data to back it up. It turns out that my hunch was right. I’m pretty sure a magazine will never produce the data about their advertiser’s products but that’s what these forums are for.
If handling and a protouring style look is your goal, I’d also recommend Nitto 555R tires on all four corners. They grip like glue and you will out perform most cars on the road today.
By the way, thanks for the complement.
And what Tyler said. He knows what he is talking about.

[BuddyP]

Ok... now it looks like my whole front suspension setup plan is in the kabosh! Harshman, what you currently have for a setup for your front suspension is exactly what I was planning to do. I have not bought anything at this point except poly Control arm bushings. You seem to not think too highly of the setup?? (mostly due, by the sounds of it, to all the neat stuff talked about on this site). At this point in time my front end is completely disassembled and hope to have the parts powdercoated by mid May sometime, that's when I'll be assembling it with whatever parts I decide to go with for the front end. Would I still be ok to go with that same setup only adding the offset shafts and high dollar bushings? I want to have a decent handling car but won't be pushing the limit or racing it... and I have to be careful of my budget. I'd rather keep the chassis itself in stock form also (aka no Guldstrand mod). But if it makes a significant difference, I won't rule it out just yet.

BTW, has anybody made any head to head comparisons of these Del-a-lum bushings vs Poly? Is this something that guy with a normal street driven car would notice?

Thanks again guys... really appreciating all this info!!!
Buddy P

[harshman]

I got beat pretty bad by a ’94 Camaro. We all know that one you get beat you get the bug to not get beat again. I’m not planning to race my car…much but I refuse to have my car out handled by a $6,000 box of rice. I think what it comes down to is for a small amount of extra money you could have one of the best handling suspension setups for a first gen on a stock frame. It would be done right the first time and you would never have to revisit the suspension at a later time. The Guldstrand mod is the cheapest and most significant modification that you could possibly do to your frame – and it is free. If your adding subframe connectors I’d say that your frame isn’t stock so what’s a little drillin’ and a grindin’?

[vanzuuk1]

harshman , if i have a set of control arms can i trim them in advance or do i need to trim them as i do the g mod? . i would like to do them ahead of time and refinish them. also i had kyb's year ago and the car didnt rebound quick enough, it would "pack up" over bumpy turns. maybe you have had better results?

[harshman]

You don’t trim the arms; you trim the bracket that is welded to the frame that holds the arms. Check out www.guldstrand.com or talk to Tyler with ATS. Tyler will set you up very well and get you pointed in the right direction (shameless plug but what are you gona do).
KYB shocks are gas filled shocks and will not work as well as oil filled shocks. I haven’t changed my shocks yet but I will soon with Bilsteins. My car is in storage in Phoenix and as soon as I get moved I’ll be doing a lot of work on it.

[wally8]

Harshman QUOTE: "KYB shocks are gas filled shocks and will not work as well as oil filled shocks. I haven’t changed my shocks yet but I will soon with Bilsteins."


Huh???


Wally

[BuddyP]

Ok... so on the Del-a-lum bushings, would a person be ok to just use them on the upper arm's or do you need to do all or nothing? $230 or whatever they cost for a full set is a chuck of sum... but of course pocket change compared to what I'll have in the thing by the time I'm done with it.

Harshman, sent you a PM

[rocketrod]

Talk about excellent timing for this thread. I am currently redoing my front supension as was leaning toward GW uppers, but couldn't justify the $$$. I figure I will have about $425 in the GW bushings, offset shafts and all new ball joints and should have a pretty nice setup for a daily driver.

Harshman, sent you a PM concerning the rest of my suspension plans.

[Mark Antrim]

Buddyp, I've got the global west bushings with the shafts installed in all 4 arms for sale. The moog ball joints already installed. Let me know if you are interested. I can email you pics.

[BuddyP]

Mark... sent you a PM