Intercool vs Methyl injection

[John S]

I've been considering boosting my engine and after looking into different superchargers and turbos I feel the best option for my current setup is a twin turbo system.
I've talked with the owner of the shop that did my F.A.S.T tuning and who also is big into custom turbo and pro-charger systems since he is familiar with my drivetrain setup and he recommends the injection over the intercooler.

His argument is that the size of the intercooler needed to sufficiently cool the charge air would create more work and cost more than then the gains are worth. As well as the location would inhibit engine cooling by restricting cool air from entering the radiator and also replacing the cooler air with heated air from the intercooler.

His argument for the Methyl inkection is that even though it cools the incoming air charge an additional benefit is that it also raises the octane rating of the combustion mix.

I have not been able to find much information regarding the injection and am looking for opinions on it. I know that intercooling is the most popular but are the gains really worth the expense and extra plumbing?

[BAD68GTO]

This would TOTALLY depend on what type of TT or SC you are running, objectives and tunes. I have WM with my twin screw SC and also maybe buying another 1550-1600 RWHP TT WM street Viper this weekend. Even the WM can be water, WW fluid, 50-50 and a myriad of other combos. I use 11.5-12.0 AF with WW fluid on 10 lbs of boost and have 22K miles of hard street driving on the combo and I tune my own cars, but this subject is like the Ford verses Chevy arguement. Honestly, it will depend upon a LOT of things and you can run both, and hell even NOS on top of that. I am going to be pushing spray into two of my cars now and SC/TT cars LOVE spray more than NA motors. Anyhow, this is a huge topic, but like this post, it will help you to begin to learn more. Check the guys that are running SC and TT's that you are running on engine wise and ask a lot of questions and listen is my best suggestion. Gary

[DeltaT]

For a street car that's driven any distance, I consider a properly set up intercooler to be the cake, and meth injection is the frosting. The IC gets your temps down into the sane region and the meth is an insurance policy for hot days, dyno days, drag days and the chance of a poor tank of premium.

You have a lot of space in that Monte nose, so if you lay things out correctly you can have your turbo setup, a large IC with great airflow to/from, and a radiator that easily keeps up with the demands you will place on it.

What kind of power levels are you targeting?

Check out my site for another G-body with a large (2074cfm) IC and an FJO Racing meth kit on its way in now (you can see the solenoid mounted on the right side of the air hat in the front-on engine shot):

http://home.mindspring.com/~jim_fisk/id1.html

I have no problems with water temps.

Jim

[John S]

Thanks Guys,
DeltaT since my engine is at 10:3 compression and I do not plan on changing any internals I was planning on keeping things reasonable @ 8-10 lbs of boost. I figure this should net me about 200hp at the rear wheels.
SInce I am already running a 4 core Aluminum radiator and aluminum heads I'm confident that my engine cooling is sufficient. And although there is a lot of room in the Monte;s nose I think that the available airflow helps keeping things cool and restricting that airflow (IC) may be detrimental.
Lemme go look at the link you posted, that may help me out some.
Thanks.

[35spline]

If you are going to run about 8 lbs of boost why not consider e85? That's what I did.

[John S]

If you are going to run about 8 lbs of boost why not consider e85? That's what I did.

I would love to run E85 but there is no where in NY to purchase it, not in my area anyway.

I spent a lot of time online researching making my own but that would prove to be difficult as well since the raw materials are not readily available and I am not sure that I have the time to devote to making it.

Another thing I considered since I average about 4-6 tanks of gas a year in my car was to just purchase bulk racing fuel. But the cost of that has gotten prohibitive.

[GetMore]

Personally, I agree with the idea of using an intercooler as the main method and water/methanol as a backup/helper.
You may be able to find an air to water intercooler that'll do the job.

The biggest drawback that I can think of with W/M injection is if it stops working for some reason you've got big problems. If there's a hiccup while you're under boost you are screwed.

[MonzaRacer]

Here you go instead of throwing cubic dollars look into building your own water/methanol injection (heck I used an old Holley Water Injection kit and would use a $0.25 bottle of rubbing alcohol in my water ,,,,till I figured out dads washer fluid worked just fine) Working on gettting all the aprts to run on my 77Monza as I am hoping to twin turbo the 283 and daily drive too!

http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html

[tonykim]

The charge air cooler (intercooler) should be able to be installed and impact your radiator toptank temps minimally as long as you have a good electric fan, good baffling, etc. I personally think using this as the primary cooling is best as it seems a lot of consensus here is. Then you can use a injection system as additional insurance or with a race tune and race gas. Anderson Motorsports makes a $200 system called Mr. Freeze and I've seen it add 100 rwhp to a non-intercooled Vortech T-trim car.

[BAD68GTO]

Personally, I agree with the idea of using an intercooler as the main method and water/methanol as a backup/helper.
You may be able to find an air to water intercooler that'll do the job.

The biggest drawback that I can think of with W/M injection is if it stops working for some reason you've got big problems. If there's a hiccup while you're under boost you are screwed.
I run and suggest for everyone to run a WB O2 sensor with a display. With pump gas and ww fluid for WM, I go for 11.5 to 12.0 AF ratio. I also have a light wired to my pump, a simple LED to show when it is active and then fished the LED up through my air ducts for the air and I can see when it is spraying. I put 642 miles on my Viper last weekend through 4 states and near 40K miles and it has worked flawlessly. I am also running 10 Lbs. of boost and run simple 93 octane, I could go to 12 lbs, but I have stock heads and that is a bit too much. Anyhow, great thead with lots of different ideas, but please everyone get an air fuel display and keep an eye on it.

[tonykim]

I agree on the suggestion of an A/F meter. I want to put one in my Saleen and had thought about just an autometer dial gauge. Would that work reasonably or do you recommend a WB setup and display instead. i'm trying to keep my interior pretty clean and stock like.