Are these beautiful or what?

[The Stickman]

Well on Monday I ordered new rear lower control arms for my Custom Cruiser. I want this car to handle even better than it currently does which is pretty darn well. And in order to do this I need a rear swaybar. Now there are options out there for swaybars but most rear bars are so big they almost require a new front bar. And I am not yet at that point. So I needed another option, and I found it with these Metco billet aluminum LCA's. With these you can mount a stock sedan rear swaybar. They figured out that all one needed to do was to move the mounting holes further forward on the arms. You will notice that there are 3 holes on each arm for swaybars. The 2 most rear holes are for the wagon bar and the 2 most forward ones are for the sedan bar. These LCA's are truely beautiful.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4106-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4109-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4108-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4110-1.jpg

[The Stickman]

Ok I am back after the install and I am beaten and bruised. The arms were tough to get off. Seems GM thought it was a good idea to put the forward mounting bolts in thru the boxed frame. What a pain. But I got it all done. Here is the bar with the channel that slips into the frame rail.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4111-1.jpg
And a close up of the channel
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4112-1.jpg
And the bar without. This is all I will need to bolt it to the Metco arms besides their hardware.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4113-1.jpg
Now some pics of just the Metco arms mounted.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4118-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4117-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4115-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4119-1.jpg
And with the swaybar mounted
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4123-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4124-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4125-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4126-1.jpg

[dr.gonzo]

nice buy. those are clean, time to get the rest of the underside going

[1360]

Nice!

[T-CHRGD]

WOW !! That is a Sweet Setup !! :)

[slowcamaro]

They sure are pretty. What kind of bushings are in them? I cant really tell from the photos.

[Damn True]

You sure about the install on that sway bar?

[slowcamaro]

You sure about the install on that sway bar?

Wow. I didn't notice the lack of sway bar bushings, whats the story there?

On the LCA side of things, apparently Metco uses poly bushing on both ends, I know on my rear suspension this leads to binding. But they are pretty.

[The Stickman]

On the B-Body wagons the swaybar bolts directly to the LCA's. It is a totally unique way to do it. It does not bolt in anyway to the rearend housing. There is also no buchings used to mount the swaybar. The LCA's have poly bushings in each end. It would have been better to have a heim or johny joint in one end but oh well. I bought these particular arms because it allows me to mount either a sedan swaybar or a wagon bar. I wanted to take things slow with my suspension mods. It has been a great method for me in the past rather than throwing multiple mods at a car and then not knowing whats wrong. It handles so good right now that I am wondering if I should tinker with it.

[Twentyover]

G body is similiar to Stick's car. Not everything is a Camaro.

Yeah stick, I'd have probbaly stuck Johnnies in the arm, since it will bind in roll. I'm using the currietrac tubular LCA for that reason

[Damn True]

What is the swaybar doing that the rear end housing is not already doing?

[The Stickman]

What is the swaybar doing that the rear end housing is not already doing?


It acts just like any other swaybar. It's just mounted different. The arms of the swaybar resist the twist of the car when it leans. The rearend housing does not

[WS6]

That's weird and I'm not sure correct at all. Someone's going to need to give a dynamics answer to this because as it sits, I'm with True. That bar is doing nothing more than the rear axle is already doing. Sure it's adding more resistance because it is there but I bet with it mounted to the rear end or with drop links somehow like a 2nd gen, the bar would work loads better.

The LCAs are pretty though :)

[eddiep]

I can see it, and it is correct. That sway bar is bolted in two different locations on each side - think about the controls arms trying to move in opposite directions (i.e., body roll), and how this configuration would work against that.


That's weird and I'm not sure correct at all. Someone's going to need to give a dynamics answer to this because as it sits, I'm with True. That bar is doing nothing more than the rear axle is already doing. Sure it's adding more resistance because it is there but I bet with it mounted to the rear end or with drop links somehow like a 2nd gen, the bar would work loads better.

The LCAs are pretty though :)

[zbugger]

What is the swaybar doing that the rear end housing is not already doing?
True, look at a 64-72 A-Body and ask the same thing. They mount quite similar. Personally, I like the DSE rear sway bar setup if you actually need one on an A-Body.

[JRouche]

That's weird and I'm not sure correct at all. Someone's going to need to give a dynamics answer to this because as it sits, I'm with True. That bar is doing nothing more than the rear axle is already doing. Sure it's adding more resistance because it is there but I bet with it mounted to the rear end or with drop links somehow like a 2nd gen, the bar would work loads better.

The LCAs are pretty though :)

Its a simple torsion bar. As one arm wants to move up or down it forces the other to do the same thing even though it doesnt want to in a turn. Pretty simple really. Some bushings would help but I dont even see them as being needed, there is no frame mount, no noise transfer. And as far as binding goes, thats its purpose, to bind the left and right. Just a simple torsion spring attaching two levers. GM kinda worked that out awhile ago. Just a big spring linking the travels of the arms.. JR

[Vegas69]

I'm not sold on it either. I want to control the body.

[Bryce]

my 95 stang had a bar just like that. i broke it in half after upgrading my control arms to solid ends. i like the car better without it, not sure if it even did anything

[The Stickman]

Here are pics that clearly show that the swaybar works just like any other swaybar. Afterall why would GM design it this way? Why would companies like Metco, Hotchkiss, Spohn and others make LCA's that follow the same design?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4127-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4128-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4129-1.jpg

[novaderrik]

GM built tens of millions of cars with sway bars mounted like that- starting with the first A bodies in the 60's and going all the way up to the 96 B bodies (Caprice, Impala SS).
it's not ideal, but it's cheap and light and it works.
as to why companies put mounts for that style of bar on their lower control arms- it's so the customer can put their new arms on the car and not have to spend more $$$ on a different sway bar.
a few companies are now making the Camaro style bar that mounts using bushings an end links. to read all their ads and read their web pages, you'd think that they just invented something totally new and didn't just look under any Camaro built between '67 and '02 and say "hey, i can make that fit G body, too".

[novanutcase]

GM built tens of millions of cars with sway bars mounted like that- starting with the first A bodies in the 60's and going all the way up to the 96 B bodies (Caprice, Impala SS).
it's not ideal, but it's cheap and light and it works.
as to why companies put mounts for that style of bar on their lower control arms- it's so the customer can put their new arms on the car and not have to spend more $$$ on a different sway bar.
a few companies are now making the Camaro style bar that mounts using bushings an end links. to read all their ads and read their web pages, you'd think that they just invented something totally new and didn't just look under any Camaro built between '67 and '02 and say "hey, i can make that fit G body, too".

LOL!!! Gotta love those marketing guys!!!!:smoke:

John

[jpdeuce]

GM A and G bodies all have that set up. Fox body mustangs have it too.

[andrewb70]

I am more concerned about the solid bushings. How is the rear end supposed to articulate from side to side with the solid bushings?

Andrew

[LateNight72]

A-Bodies are the same way.

What is the swaybar doing that the rear end housing is not already doing?
That's why there's more than a few people trying to design better systems.

[The Stickman]

I am more concerned about the solid bushings. How is the rear end supposed to articulate from side to side with the solid bushings?

Andrew


They are not bushings. They are spacers needed for the swaybar to clear the rearend housing. If I were to use a wagon bar rather than the sedan swaybar I wouldn't need them.

[andrewb70]

They are not bushings. They are spacers needed for the swaybar to clear the rearend housing. If I were to use a wagon bar rather than the sedan swaybar I wouldn't need them.

I am not talking about the sway bar. I am talking about the bushings where the control arms bolt to the frame and to the rear end. They look to be solid. If that is the case, that is very bad.

Andrew

[Vegas69]

They look like billet spacers with poly bushings and a steel sleeve.

[The Stickman]

They look like billet spacers with poly bushings and a steel sleeve.


Correct.

[JRouche]

I am not talking about the sway bar. I am talking about the bushings where the control arms bolt to the frame and to the rear end. They look to be solid. If that is the case, that is very bad.
Andrew

In all the pics its pretty clear there is a poly bushing in there. What pic did you see where there was metal to metal?? JR

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/100_4118-1.jpg

[andrewb70]

I stand corrected. Poly bushings all around. Best thing ever. :idea:

Andrew

[slowcamaro]

In all the pics its pretty clear there is a poly bushing in there. What pic did you see where there was metal to metal?? JR


In such situations your actually better with rubber or a spherical bushing on at least one end. Poly will tend to bind in roll, where rubber would deflect and the spherical would provide angularity at the cost of some noise and harshness.

They're still pretty. Just more desirable to folks that don't have to turn.

[The Stickman]

In such situations your actually better with rubber or a spherical bushing on at least one end. Poly will tend to bind in roll, where rubber would deflect and the spherical would provide angularity at the cost of some noise and harshness.

They're still pretty. Just more desirable to folks that don't have to turn.


You would be surprised how good they are in a turn there slow. Not so much now that I blew the front seal on the trans though.

[slowcamaro]

Is it the arms you're feeling or is it the new bar? Is it the fact you swapped out 30 year old bushings to fresh bushings. I've been through the extremes in my own car. Worn stock bushings, then solid bushings and now rubber/rod end. I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm doing my best to convince you from first hand experience that those bushings aren't ideal for handling performance, as a matter of fact you'd be better of with stock style rubber bushings. That said poly has its place.

I hope they never "grab and let go" mid corner on you.

I'm finished here. Goodluck.

[The Stickman]

Is it the arms you're feeling or is it the new bar? Is it the fact you swapped out 30 year old bushings to fresh bushings. I've been through the extremes in my own car. Worn stock bushings, then solid bushings and now rubber/rod end. I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm doing my best to convince you from first hand experience that those bushings aren't ideal for handling performance, as a matter of fact you'd be better of with stock style rubber bushings. That said poly has its place.

I hope they never "grab and let go" mid corner on you.

I'm finished here. Goodluck.


Well I am sure they both have made a difference. But that being said without these arms I couldn't run this swaybar. But the car is so stable thru the corners. That is thru ideal turns and those with quick changes or uneven roads. I took and offramp behind some friends and the one friend went wide into the second lane and I entered wide and then dove inside. I would have prefered the joints in one end but I am more than happy with these LCA's. And I don't think your being an ass BTW will you be making it to the GM national's at Carlisle? If so I'll give you a ride(providing I can get a trans in by then) and then you can give me a first hand opinion.