Flex plate shimmed

[Steelrat]

I took off my flexplate to give it a good look to ensure it ws in good condition before the new tranny install. I found that there were washers between the flexplate and crank. I put it back on without the washers and found that the mini starter ring gear made contact with the flexplate when not engaged. The starter was also shimmed down from pan rail with 5 shims.

I put the washers back on behnd the flex plate torqued the bolts down and the starter worked fine again.

Will the flex plate be ok with these washers as shims?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[6'9"Witha69]

That is nothing more than a band aid. Without the full face mountaed against the crank, there are now additional stress points. These are an issue when there is any sort of off center or out of balance portion of the torque converter. I would find out why the starter needs to be shimmed sooo far.

[Steve Chryssos]

Steel,
That won't work. Looks like someone compromised the whole system just to make an available starter work. It's probably just a flexplate/starter mismatch issue, but since you have a 406, I think you have some investigating to do. You need to identify, the crank, starter and flexplate to find the mismatch.

As it sits, your flexplate probably does not run true and your converter to trans input shaft clearance is being compromised--That's way more important than the starter. What's worse, the flexplate could easily shear since it is not sitting flush against the crank flange. So..
-Count the teeth on you flexplate and measure the diameter. Flexplate pic on your photbucket site is external balance. All external balance flexplates should be 168 tooth. I see gouge marks on the flexplate, so you might want to replace it.
-Identify your starter as 153 or 168 tooth compatible. (Pull it and let's see a pic)
-Identify your 406's crank as internal or external balance. Based on the flexplate, it should be external (stock 400 style)--everything should be okay with the crank. But based on all of the shims you found, I would still find some way to double check the original builder's decisions and actions. It's probably just the wrong starter.
Something is funky in the combination.

[Steelrat]

168 tooth flex plate
Scat 9000 crank
Starter - CSR 100U

http://www.csr-performance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SC&Product_Code=CSR100U&Category_Code=SUC (http://www.csr-performance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SC&Product_Code=CSR100U&Category_Code=SUC)


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

maybe flexplate on backwards. Sticker towards motor or tranny?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[6'9"Witha69]

Looks like sticker to the trans. Also appears to be an external balance plate. Did the pin on the crank match the coprresponding hole on the FP? I guess I should ask if there even is a pin.

Most ministarters are clockable. One way they are designed for 153 abnd the other 168 tooth flywheels. It may be (if it is a "generic" starter) that the builder didn't know and tried to make it all work.

The other thing to note, there is anly a certain amount of play the converter should have from full pump engagement (pushed all the way into the trans) versus the flywheel. I think it is less than 3/8" total. Any more and you need to put shims between the felxplate and converter to ensure adequate pump engagement by the converter snout.

[Steelrat]

ok, I can flip flexplate and see if works with starter.
[quote=6'9"Witha69;515270]Looks like sticker to the trans. quote]

Question for clarification though...aren't the raised areas where the converter bolts on to the flex plate to face the converter?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[6'9"Witha69]

yes

[Steve Chryssos]

I would pull that header so that you can really see and understand what's going on. Take the starter shims out and bolt on the flexplate w/o the washers. You can pull on the starter gear to simulate engagement. Do that a coupla times to study the movement. There should only be about .100" to .125" (less than an eighth inch between the starter gear and the flexplate ring gear when the starter is disengaged. When engaged, the ring gear should not touch the back of the starter gear. Tooth clearance when engaged is about .030". (just a little bit of daylight). Shim as necessary. Most people just shim until the grinding noise goes away. Not good. It should all make sense from visual inspection before you ever turn the key. The trick is to pull on the starter gear by hand.
The converter should have about .375" free play when not bolted down. Likewise you should be able to pull it towards the flexplate by hand. Push and pull on it a coupla times to make sure that nothing is hanging up before tightening. Don't forget loc-tite on all flexplate bolts.

[Vegas69]

You should be able to pull the nose off the starter and intall two shims to move the starter gear away from the flywheel. (Front to back) I had to do the same thing with my GMPP starter. Steve's numbers are close. .030 -.050 (Approx) with a pin type feeler gauge with the gears meshed. This should take care of your problem.

[Steelrat]

thanks guys. I will get under the car today and let you now how it all went

[Steelrat]

the flywheel was quite far out from starter.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I removed flywhel shims, and decreased that distance by 2/3. I re- shimmed starter until it was at correct gap. I use the old paper clip tool to gauge both the back lash and the distance from tip of flywheel teeth to valley of ring gear teeth.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Thanks for all the help :hail:

[MonzaRacer]

I hate those starters, my new favorite is get the compact GM starter, source a 94 K2500 4wd 350 or 454 and starter has external through bolts (Autozone part number DLG9990S) you need the proper bolts from GM dealer.
These starters will spin over a 16 to 1 502 so I think tthey would do you justice and you can buy them everywhere.

[MonzaRacer]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gifhttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[MonzaRacer]

here is pic

[slowcamaro]

here is pic

I hear certain LT1 corvette starters(lighter than the f-body alternatives) fit the bill quite well also. Perhaps someone can chime in with a correct year and part number for the smaller version.