Rick's tanks at the track

[Turbo67camaro]

Anyone out there using a Rick's tank w/ EFI at the track without any starvation issues under hard cornering / braking / acceleration?

Are their Stealth series tanks the best for the track?

I'm looking for a tank setup that can handle the track and is easy to install.

I'd rather not cut up my trunk floor to accomodate a fuel cell, but will if I have to, to prevent starvation.

[Flash68]

I hope to find out with mine in the next month or so at one of the Sacramento Raceway drag nights. Interested to hear if there have been any issues. The only starvation issues I have heard are a few when going around corners...

[Mike Holleman]

Anyone out there using a Rick's tank w/ EFI at the track without any starvation issues under hard cornering / braking / acceleration?

Are their Stealth series tanks the best for the track?

I'm looking for a tank setup that can handle the track and is easy to install.

I'd rather not cut up my trunk floor to accomodate a fuel cell, but will if I have to, to prevent starvation.

I am using Rick's tank with EFI in my El Camino. I have not had it on a road course yet so I can't answer that question. But I have made drag strip passes and several one mile passes without any starvation issues. I did have the tank at least half full in both cases. My fuel gauge tells me there is a bit a sloshing going on by the reading changing during accel. and braking.
Mike

[RSX302]

Funny that I just saw this post right when I placed an order today.

I have an Aeromotive A1000 pump and have battled high g braking and cornering issues in the past. I currently have a sumped cell in the trunk that I've modified with a trap door box. Pulling fuel from this box and returning to the box eliminated all my problems. I've been wanting to remove the cell from my trunk and get it back under the car for a while now, but have been worried about factory location tanks. Rick's looked like a great place to start because talking with Hector, they've worked with Aeromotive to come up with a good set-up for an intank pump mount. I told him what success I've had with my set-up and he like hearing that as he said they will be setting it up the same way. (all but the trap doors)

I'm excited to see the result. I had a hard time choking down the cost, but I'm sure it will be everything I need and want.

[Turbo67camaro]

Hi Ron,

Love your car!

Hope the new purchase works. Let us know the results!

The cost of one of their setups makes me choke a bit too. But, if it solves starvation issues without me having to get into a lot of fabrication or a convoluted solution, I think I can bring myself to cough up the dough.

I was hoping to get by with a Spectra tank, but we've had one report of starvation at the track. Perhaps that will turn out to be an isolated case, but I suspect not.

Mike

[RSX302]

Thanks Mike...

My last long radius corner netted 1.1g's with a peak of 1.2 on the street. I'm still working on the brakes, only getting .85g's. Goal is closer to 1g. I gotta do something to catch up with Bad Penny:machine:

Rick's told me it's going to be about a month before they're done. :crying:

I'll let you know...

[CarlC]

Hey Ron,

You may want to check out Charlie's Jackass thread on L-G. In it is a picture where Rick's has adapted a modern fuel bucket that utilizes a venturi pump to keep the sump full. It''s a very nice setup. Hector should know about it. I will be modifying mine to do the same thing.

[RSX302]

Hey Ron,

You may want to check out Charlie's Jackass thread on L-G. In it is a picture where Rick's has adapted a modern fuel bucket that utilizes a venturi pump to keep the sump full. It''s a very nice setup. Hector should know about it. I will be modifying mine to do the same thing.

That's funny..about a 1 1/2 yrs ago when I was looking at modifying a factory location tank, I called up Rick's (Hector) to see if they would be able to make me a multiple pump set-up. Twin in-tank 255l pumps(each side) feeding a box in the middle that housed my A1000. The multiple pump design has been in the roadracing world for years. I sent Hector a CAD drawing of what I was thinking, but I then I decided that I didn't want to run multiple pumps if I didn't absolutly need to. I thought I should be able to get something to work with one pump. Fuel Safe uses the box design with trap doors or check balls to control fuel at the pump and it works very well. You could still run into issues with the box design if you have low fuel levels (less then 5 gals) pulling hard cornering where as the multiple pump design will not.

I'll call Hector this week to see how much extra it'll be.

[Bow Tie 67]

I have one and have had no problems at the drag-strip, auto-x or road course. I'm using a high output stock type internal pump.

[Patrick]

I have a Rick's tank in my car. Under heavy acceleration or right hand turns with less than 1/2 tank I have serious fuel starvation problems. I am using their Walbro fuel pump setup.
Hector is aware of it and said that he would modify the tank to correct the problem.... Just don't want to have the car down for a couple of weeks.

[CarlC]

Ron, please keep me in the loop on that. I may have them modify mine.

[RSX302]

Ron, please keep me in the loop on that. I may have them modify mine.

You got it!

[camcojb]

Hey Ron,

You may want to check out Charlie's Jackass thread on L-G. In it is a picture where Rick's has adapted a modern fuel bucket that utilizes a venturi pump to keep the sump full. It''s a very nice setup. Hector should know about it. I will be modifying mine to do the same thing.
I thought Mark Stielow did the modding to make that work in a Ricks tank; I could be wrong though.

I would do a surge tank; would absolutely eliminate these road course issues. I also think Ricks could even incorporate them in their tanks which would be very cool, but I have not talked to him about it in a long time.

Just build a 1-2 gallon tank with an inlet, outlet, and return line fitting up top. Otherwise it's a sealed box and could be mounted anywhere it'll fit, but I think walling off a section of the tank would be coolest as you won't have to try to find room under the car for another tank. You have a decent pump feeding it from the main tank, the main efi pump draws from this 1-2 gallon surge tank and bypasses to it also. Finally, there's a return line at the top of the tank (if it's mounted remotely) or just a simple slot cut at the top on one wall to allow the bypassed and extra fuel to spill back into the tank. Just box off a corner of the tank, add a pump that feeds this boxed area all the time from the sump of the main fuel tank. What you now have is a 1-2 gallon "float bowl". As the tank level gets lower the surge tank remains full. In the event that you are on a road course and high g forces are pulling fuel away from the pump pickup (where you'd get a stutter/hesitation as the fuel pressure dropped) you'll still have a couple gallons in reserve. Once the car is back on the straighaway the surge tank is refilled quickly and all is good. You make this thing to hold a couple gallons of fuel and you'd never have a hard cornering fuel pressure issue again; even at wot it would take a long time to drain two gallons of fuel through the engine, don't know of a corner that long.

Jody

[CarlC]

Jody,

I heard somewhere that Mark sent the spec's to Hector, but the info came through several layers before me so I don't know the validity.

[Mkelcy]

And here I've been feeling stupid for spending within $200 of a Rick's tank to mod a stock tank with an in tank pump and sump that have never given me fuel starvation issues regardless how much fuel is in the tank by stuffing this
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/attachmentphpattachmentid4353d1189436285-1.jpg.

into the stock tank, thusly:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/attachmentphpattachmentid4351d1189436261-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/attachmentphpattachmentid4352d1189436275-1.jpg


Or maybe I'm not pushing it hard enough . . .

[mazspeed]

I have the Rick's modified tank. Mark Stielow had a design that works and he has all his tanks built with fuel doors, check balls and whatnot. I had the same problem as I would lose fuel on big right hand sweepers, and very spirited driving situations on the stock tank. I ripped the tank out, Campbell Auto came up with a slightly different design then Mark's but still similar and now it works great. Hector did a real nice job on it, and he is great to work with. I did tell him that he should make 2 tanks for sale. A race style tank like what I have, and a standard cheaper tank for someone who may not track or run their cars full on all the time. Having 2 tanks and letting people know the difference would be great, because not many people need the higher end tank, but it would be nice to give them that choice. If you order a tank from them, talk to Hector and tell him you want the tank to be like Mine from Campbell auto and or Mark’s. I’m not sure if they have adapted either one for retail sale.

[Mkelcy]

I have the Rick's modified tank. Mark Stielow had a design that works and he has all his tanks built with fuel doors, check balls and whatnot. I had the same problem as I would lose fuel on big right hand sweepers, and very spirited driving situations on the stock tank. I ripped the tank out, Campbell Auto came up with a slightly different design then Mark's but still similar and now it works great. Hector did a real nice job on it, and he is great to work with. I did tell him that he should make 2 tanks for sale. A race style tank like what I have, and a standard cheaper tank for someone who may not track or run their cars full on all the time. Having 2 tanks and letting people know the difference would be great, because not many people need the higher end tank, but it would be nice to give them that choice. If you order a tank from them, talk to Hector and tell him you want the tank to be like Mine from Campbell auto and or Mark’s. I’m not sure if they have adapted either one for retail sale.

For $1,000+ for a fuel tank (which, by the way, I have for my '68 LS3 project car), I expect it to keep pumping fuel until the vapors are used up. This is disappointing.

[mazspeed]

For $1,000+ for a fuel tank (which, by the way, I have for my '68 LS3 project car), I expect it to keep pumping fuel until the vapors are used up. This is disappointing.
It is more than 1k but a fuel cell is what, 2k? plus you have to cut the floor and fab stuff up. You may get some unused fuel, but it's not much, less than a gallon. The positives outweigh the negatives, at least for Mark and myself. Plus Hector's customer service is unbeatable.

[RSX302]

For $1,000+ for a fuel tank (which, by the way, I have for my '68 LS3 project car), I expect it to keep pumping fuel until the vapors are used up. This is disappointing.

Although I don't know what the cost of building a tank is, I do know that stainless is more expensive and machining is a pain in the a$$. The only way I know to use every last drop of fuel is to run a deep sump or a separate tank fed by other pumps as mentioned. A flat bottom tank with a couple of baffles is good for basic street stuff and keeps the cost down, but won't deal with 1g stuff in any direction. Good ol' carburetor days had the float bowls to help out with this.
Since I don't want to run multiple pumps in a street car, the next best thing is the sumped box with trap doors/ball checks. (this is what I'm currently running and it works well, but not to the last drop. You need at least 5 gals) I want to incorporate something simular into Rick's tank. I will check out what design they did for Mark's tank? (is it sumped?)I will be calling Hector tomorrow to see if he can shoot me a picture of the design.
It's very tough to get all the fuel on a wide flat bottom when it sloshes in every direction. When you start adding more baffles and boxes, labor and machining add up. Not to mention working with my A1000!

[RSX302]

Deleted Duplicate

[RSX302]

I thought Mark Stielow did the modding to make that work in a Ricks tank; I could be wrong though.
Jody

I spoke with Hector yesterday and they did a box with ball checks for Mark Stielow that utilized a Walboro pump.

I will be doing the same, but trying to incorporate a sump and design in the A1000. I sent him a CAD drawing of my thoughts. Looks like it could work for both pump styles very well. Lots of baffling to control fuel in all directions.

[RSX302]

Here's the drawings I sent. I was thinking if I do go with the sump, we could add metal around it to shooth it in to the tank to make it look more appealing.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[liquidh8]

Jody, that is exactly what i am thinking about doing for my wagon, but adding the 2 gallon tank right next to the stocker. This way here I go from 18 gallons to 20 gallons of capacity.

[David Pozzi]

I know for carb use, a road race "makeup tank" with capacity of 1/2 gallon is enough to work just fine. a piece of 3" or 4" tube 12" tall would be plenty.
David

[Vegas69]

Return looks really small and not sure I'd return fuel to the pickup. Looks like a killer baffled setup though.

[CarlC]

If the fuel is not returned to the pickup box then it can be pumped dry. The OE's do the same thing on fuel modules.

[MCMLXIX]

Here's the drawings I sent. I was thinking if I do go with the sump, we could add metal around it to smooth it in to the tank to make it look more appealing.


So did Rick or Hector get you an feedback on your tank design??

[RSX302]

So did Rick or Hector get you an feedback on your tank design??

Actually Hector is building this design as we speak. I need to call him to check on the progress.

[johnny rockett]

Anyone out there using a Rick's tank w/ EFI at the track without any starvation issues under hard cornering / braking / acceleration?

Are their Stealth series tanks the best for the track?

I'm looking for a tank setup that can handle the track and is easy to install.

I'd rather not cut up my trunk floor to accomodate a fuel cell, but will if I have to, to prevent starvation.


I have used Ricks on many fast cars...all of them will run deep into the 8 second zones...that should tell you something...

Ask for a fuel sump and you will nver run out of fuel..a Nascar trick

He has a good knowledge of pumps and tanks and how to make anything work..............BUT...big but

You have to tell him what your plans are......

Rick is good businessman and will take care of you.......wont find a better tank guy......

[PhillipM]

I have had both Rock Valley and Ricks tanks.. Unfortunately they both starve for fuel under a half tank when cornering. What is the best way to add a sump to these tanks, or fix this problem???

[in2protour]

bump. any progress on the issue of fuel starvation in Rick's tanks? Did Rick added a sump add-on part for their existing tanks?

[The WidowMaker]

any update? ive spoken with hector recently and am going to have a tank built for the chevelle. just looking for some updates....

Tim

[The WidowMaker]

bump....

[MCMLXIX]

My idea for a tank based off some Fuel Safe parts and one of thier internal surge tanks and three check balls.
It has some directional vaines to direct fuel under cornering and acceleration....
It will be mounted through the trunk floor. It should be about 3" in the trunk and te rest under the floor...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/67TANK4-1.jpg

The model was created in Google sketch up and is not so scale...
It gives you the basic idea thats floating around in my head...
It's a 3D model that you can flip and rotate for better viewing...
I'll try and post some other views...

[MCMLXIX]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/67TANK4b-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/67TANK4c-1.jpg

[formula]

just wanted to say thank you guys for all this info--right when I needed it the most. I'm using an a1000 on a factory-style tank and it just isn't cutting it at all.

I'm thinking of going the surge tank route--do you guys think that the return will give enough venting, or should a vent be incorporated into the surge tank as well?

[MCMLXIX]

just wanted to say thank you guys for all this info--right when I needed it the most. I'm using an a1000 on a factory-style tank and it just isn't cutting it at all.

I'm thinking of going the surge tank route--do you guys think that the return will give enough venting, or should a vent be incorporated into the surge tank as well?

If you have a seperate external suge tank I would vent it as well. You might be able to vent it back to the main tank if your vent on the main tank can handle it. It might be easier then rigging up another vent... depends on your configuration I guess..

[Bowtie racing]

Although I don't know what the cost of building a tank is, I do know that stainless is more expensive and machining is a pain in the a$$. The only way I know to use every last drop of fuel is to run a deep sump or a separate tank fed by other pumps as mentioned. A flat bottom tank with a couple of baffles is good for basic street stuff and keeps the cost down, but won't deal with 1g stuff in any direction. Good ol' carburetor days had the float bowls to help out with this.
Since I don't want to run multiple pumps in a street car, the next best thing is the sumped box with trap doors/ball checks. (this is what I'm currently running and it works well, but not to the last drop. You need at least 5 gals) I want to incorporate something simular into Rick's tank. I will check out what design they did for Mark's tank? (is it sumped?)I will be calling Hector tomorrow to see if he can shoot me a picture of the design.
It's very tough to get all the fuel on a wide flat bottom when it sloshes in every direction. When you start adding more baffles and boxes, labor and machining add up. Not to mention working with my A1000!


Have you found out anything new on how Hector modified tank for Mark? Is it something i could add my self later? ( i do have a good friend as welder ) my tank is brand new. I would send it back but its in Finland .. )

If you could get pictures how it was modified?

[66ls2]

I spoke with Hector about a tank for my 66 chevelle he says the re-designed a couple months ago. Has anyone purchased one of these tanks and if so what is the feed back? I am running a spectra now (complete garbage) cant really use the car the way it was built to be used. Just want to be sure the ricks tank is good before I shell out the money,some of the older reviews still say less than 1/2 tank it has issuses ( I assume that is on the old design) I have considered a surge tank off my spectra tank but I dont want to keep chasing the problem if I can just buy a ricks tank and be done with it.
thanks

[Stielow]

I have been trying to make EFI engines work with first Gen F cars since 1993. I have tried a lot of different things over the years.

I will write a longer reply tonight on what I found that works and doesn't work.

I can say Hector at Rick's has helped me make a few differnt set ups. All of them a little better than the last. The set up I put in JA and my new '69 works the best.

Mark Stielow

[Stielow]

I have been trying to make EFI engines work with first Gen F cars since 1993. I have tried a lot of different things over the years.

I will write a longer reply tonight on what I found that works and doesn't work.

I can say Hector at Rick's has helped me make a few differnt set ups. All of them a little better than the last. The set up I put in JA and my new '69 works the best.

Mark Stielow

Back in 1993 I had my first experiences with a ’69 Camaro and add on EFI fuel pumps. I bolted the pump to the frame rail added a return port to the tank and started to drive the car. As I was walking back to my house after the car quit for the 2nd time I had time to reflect on where I had gone wrong. The stock ’69 Camaro fuel pick up sock was falling apart and sending crap in to my pump causing it to fail.

I added a pre-filter and solved that problem. I left for One Lap of America and the engine would fuel starve at anything lower than half a tank on road courses. I also blew the high pressure fuel line off the fuel pump at Michigan International Raceway and had a large fire that year. (Kyle Tucker was driving at the time and had to bail out of the car) The fuel pump I was using only had barb fittings on it. The high cornering loads at MIS caused the line to pull part way off. But not enough to kill the engine.

· Lesson 1Stock fuel pick up won’t work
· Lesson 2 Don’t use barb fittings

On the Red Witch I used an ATL fuel cell with a remote mounted fuel pump. It worked fine just a pain to fill at the gas station with the foam in it. It also required cutting the trunk out of the car. It would pull down to about a ¼ tank before fuel starvation.

· Lesson 3 Fuel Cells work

When I was building the Trasher I added a “Fuel Bucket” to the inside of the stock tank. The ATL (http://www.atlinc.com/catalogs.html (http://www.atlinc.com/catalogs.html)) (Page 20 – 21) fuel bucket had 3 check balls in it and the fuel pick up. I added a sump to the rear of the tank and put the fuel bucket in it. To get access to the inside of the tank I cut an access hole in the top of the tank. I closed out the hole in the tank with an ATL tank plate and back up ring. ATL no longer sells these due to a law suit. It also always seemed to seep a little fuel after you filled the fuel tank. I think this was due to the lack of a proper vent and pressure would build up in the tank and push fuel past the gaskets.

That system worked OK. I could use the fuel down to ¼ tank on a race track. I didn’t like the idea of cutting and welding the stock tank. I lined the inside of the tank after I modified them to keep them from rusting. It was all a pain. I used something similar to this on the Mule. Both of these set up uses external Bosch fuel pumps.

I had Ricks build me a stainless steel tank for Camaro X with the check balls and a fuel bucket in the tank and a Walbro pump in the tank. It worked OK and would pull fuel down to ¼ tank on track. On this tank Rick’s still had not sorted out the vent and it would push fuel out of the tank when full. I added a vent to the filler neck that tied into the Rick’s vent and seem to reduce the problem.

· Lesson 4 Fuel Buckets work fair

When I did Jack Ass I had had years of experience with low fuel handling problems at work.

A little background. People suggested using two fuel pumps and a surge tank. This will work on a race car but will not work in production. Fuel pumps need fuel to lubricate them. Transfer pumps will work for a while dry but not very long. If you plan to use electric fuel pump to feed a surge tank then some day you will burn up your transfer pumps.

What we came up with is a fuel pump setup that sits in its own buck the fills the bucket with “jet” pumps. Jet pump are siphon pumps that use some of the fuel flow to run through an orifice to create a pressure drop to pump fuel. Many factory fuel pumps have jet pumps. Many new cars have split fuel tanks and need one jet pump to keep the bucket full and one to pull fuel from the other half of the tank. Corvettes have two tanks connected by a transfer tube and Cadillac CTS’s have saddle tanks and a transfer tube. I had Hector at Rick’s build me a split tank for a ’69 Camaro with the ring in it to allow a stock CTS-V fuel pump module. The fuel pump module sits on one half and a ½” tube runs to the other side of the tank to pick up fuel.

During the Motorstate Challenge Charley and I forgot to put fuel in JA after the road race Saturday night due to doing a photo shoot. We went to the Autocross the next day. Again we forgot to add fuel. I did my 3 runs then Charley got into the car and made two runs. Waiting to make the third run he noticed the fuel gauge "E". Charley made 1 more run on the autocross course with no fuel stumble before we could get more fuel. So the set up we have will pull the tank to empty in a heavy lateral environment.

· Lesson 5 Stock stuff works!

I went through 5 tanks from Rick’s before I got something that I feel works. I would like to thank Hector for all his help building me one off tanks. I consider this all development. There later tanks also have the vent system working much better now.

A quick note on fuel pumps. If you run a big pump for a long time at low consumption like on Hot Rod Power Tour they over heat. (ask Charley or Jody) :) I like stock style intake pumps with FSCMs to step down the voltage at cruise to help to not heat up the fuel.

Now the down side – none of this is cheap. Just my 2 cents…

Mark :6gears:

[66ls2]

Thanks for all the input that was one of my concerns when exploring the surge tank idea was the primary pump sucking air and burning out and I was told not to worry. I am going to call hector, pay the money and get a good tank.
Thanks again

[Z06vet]

Mark- let me run this by you quickly. I am still learning about the tank/pump setups. I have a 67 camaro with LS1. The previous owner installed everything, including an 01 F-body tank mounted in the trunk. Its not ideal & I dont care for it in the trunk. Yes I smell fumes at times, but I can run this tank on the street until the gauge pegs on "E" with no stravation problems. Is there any way to use the stock 01 pump/pickup assy in a stock style 67 tank? I want to put a tank in the stock location, but dont want to have all these problems were discussing. I am building a nice 69 right now, and was planning a Rick's tank- now im not sure. Thanks for taking the time to help everyone out.
Scott

[CarlC]

Mark,

Thanks for sharing your experiences. When you posted pics of the fuel module for JA I was in the middle of trying to find one that will come close to fitting a stock/aftermarket tank. Most modules are too tall to fit without major trunk surgery or adding a sump to the bottom of the tank.

What year CTS-V does the JA module come from?

Thanks again for sharing.

[Bow Tie 67]

Another thanks Mark, I had to cut windows in the basket on my 4th gen Camaro to stop surging in corners. I know that sounds like going backwards, but it worked.

I'm curious if I could mod the Ricks tank I have now. At 1/2 tank I experience surging in high g corners. Do you happen to remember the width and depth of the cts unit?

[T/Aaron]

Oh boy, I wonder if I should post pics of mine after I'm finished? Mine is a bit different...

[CarlC]

Don't wonder. Do. We like different.

[MCMLXIX]

Oh boy, I wonder if I should post pics of mine after I'm finished? Mine is a bit different...

Post during.. dont wait till your done.... show progress....:)

[RSX302]

It's been a long time waiting...I talk to Hector the other day and it sounds promising that I will get my creation soon. He said it was all tacked up and he was able to stay about 80% to my drawing. Once I get it, I will post pictures of what I can. Looks like the pump is going to be mounted offset in the tank instead of the middle(passenger side). They also made there own version of stainless check balls. Can't wait!

[RSX302]

My Rick's Tank is finely here. Here's some pics....

I think it turned out nice. There are a couple areas I shook my head at, but I think overall I think it will work.

I put some captions verbiage over the issue pictures that I will inform Hector about.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Not sure about the vents at the top corners? They go to the back of the tank up higher then the threaded bungs in front of the tank. I see fuel coming out every time I land on the power or fill to the top. I will try, but I think they will be plugged and a vented from the fuel neck as Mark said.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Problem Photo: Fuel will go right around the sump to the other side of the tank. Should of had a baffle tack welded on each side.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Solution: Stuffed 4" fuel cell foam in 1.5" gap to stop or dramatically slow fuel from going around. Very tight fit..my fingers and arm were sore..shouldn't move.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Unfortunately with the A1000 pump, it wouldn't allow for a second baffle.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

More Fuel Cell Foam to help.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Flash68]

Very cool Ron. Should be a nice setup with your little tweaks. :D

[formula]

I am in no way bashing rick's or hector as it seems like they build an excellent product and I know on custom jobs it is always a mix of what the customer wants and what you think will work...but do they do much product testing on their own? It sure seems like they are relying a lot on customer input and not much on their own knowledge..or are their tanks designed more for drag or cruising and we're trying to push them beyond what they're designed for?

I may not understand how this part of the business works, as I am totally new to the EFI game, so please forgive me if this is dumb.

[The WidowMaker]

Not sure about the vents at the top corners? They go to the back of the tank up higher then the threaded bungs in front of the tank. I see fuel coming out every time I land on the power or fill to the top. I will try, but I think they will be plugged and a vented from the fuel neck as Mark said.

were you planning on leaving the vents as is, or running an external line from them that went a little higher with a loop?

i would like to see a few more pics of the sump. im not really grasping what it looks like. is that a solid box with a few checkballs? i cant tell if the back is open or not. it looks like a reflection on it though.

[alnoe]

PLease post how well this works. I am on the fence about which tank to buy and don't want to spend a ton of coin for poor results.

Thanks for posting the pics!

Al

[RSX302]

I am in no way bashing rick's or hector as it seems like they build an excellent product and I know on custom jobs it is always a mix of what the customer wants and what you think will work...but do they do much product testing on their own? It sure seems like they are relying a lot on customer input and not much on their own knowledge..or are their tanks designed more for drag or cruising and we're trying to push them beyond what they're designed for?

I may not understand how this part of the business works, as I am totally new to the EFI game, so please forgive me if this is dumb.

I think you are right...

They have a nich in stainless fabrication, but R&D seems as its up to us. Hector was awesome to work with and very intrested in different methods of fuel control.

I pretty much told Hector that there is a pro-touring community out there that is looking for a EFI factory tank replacement that will handle 1.2g's in all directions. (without starving at lower fuel levels) If we get it right, could equal much more sales.

[RSX302]

were you planning on leaving the vents as is, or running an external line from them that went a little higher with a loop?

i would like to see a few more pics of the sump. im not really grasping what it looks like. is that a solid box with a few checkballs? i cant tell if the back is open or not. it looks like a reflection on it though.

I could probably go in a couple different directions with this. One is the higher external loop as you said or I was think about plugging off one side tank vent (the side I can't get to) and slip a rubber hose inside the tank on the other and run up to the fill neck. Possibly put a very small loop in the neck? I wouldn't think it needs to be very big for vapor venting only?

Yes, it is a solid box that is open to the tank on top. The back was a screw up on there part. It should of had plates there to slow the fuel down. This is why I put the fuel cell foam back there. The idea is when you're in a corner,(either direction) the fuel builds up against the outside of the sump wall and has to flow into the check ball filling the sump. With the pick up and return in the sump box, it keeps the pick up tube submerged in fuel.

I can't get a finished picture of the sump. (sealed up) This is what Hector sent me during the build.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[RSX302]

PLease post how well this works. I am on the fence about which tank to buy and don't want to spend a ton of coin for poor results.

Thanks for posting the pics!

Al

If this work (as I think it should after correcting the minor items) It'll be worth it.

I think this design would work even better if an in-tank style pump is mounted on the top, in the middle of the sump. The baffling could go back in that spot where my A1000 sits.

I will absolutely post the results. I plan on testing how low of fuel it can go before it starves. (In all directions---1.2g's)

Oh yea...not cheap $$$... Hector quoted me $1800.. First payment was $900 and I havent seen the second half of the bill yet to see if he gave me any breaks for being so patient. This was without the A1000 pump. I will find out! I think a designers credit! LOL

[Vegas69]

Ron, once you have spent all the time and money perfecting the tank, I'll call Hector and order mine. haha Isn't it great being the guinea pig?

That whole loop in the fuel vent line doesn't work very well. What ends up happening is you get some fuel caught in the bottom of the loop and once the tank builds pressure, it belches that trapped fuel. I'm using a one quart resoirvoir in the trunk with no loops and it's working well. I've tried a loop, loops, no loops with just a k&n, different routings and finally came up with the deal I'm using.

[The WidowMaker]

What ends up happening is you get some fuel caught in the bottom of the loop and once the tank builds pressure, it belches that trapped fuel.

interesting. i'm glad i read that part.

on our newest fire engines, they are running a vented cap with another vent somewhere that is plumbed back into the filler neck. this was nice since you dont have trouble while filling with fuel wanting to come back up the neck. but, it does start burping fuel into the neck if you really pack it full.

not to get off topic, but what are the oems running?

[ErikLS2]

OEM's use the charcoal cannister system and it works great. I'm quite familiar with these systems and am considering using one on my 69 camaro with an LS2, although I'm a ways away from that part of the build. Since I'm using the oem computer, the purge solenoid is already on the engine and the software to control it is obvoiusly there as well. One problem is the system is designed to diagnose itself for leaks as there are EPA limitations to fuel vapor emissions. It basically does this with a pressure sensor on the fuel tank or cannister which it uses to monitor pressure in the tank (less than 1 psi) and thereby determine if there is a leak or not and if there is turn on the MIL. It gets more complicated than that but it's not really relevant to our situtation.Getting it to work without setting a trouble code might be a challenge but it should be able to handle all the venting requirements easily. I'm n sure if it's possible to turn off the trouble code in tuning but still have the purge system work properly.

The biggest challenge is where to mount the cannister and plumbing the vent lines between it and the tank and running an additional line up to the purge valve on the engine. If you can accomplish that I suspect any venting issues will be solved.

I know this is not the main topic of this thread but I read enough commments about venting that I felt I might be able to contribute something. Like I said I'm not quite there yet on my car but I would be happy to investigate a little more on this if it would interest anyone.

[Turbo67camaro]

I pretty much told Hector that there is a pro-touring community out there that is looking for a EFI factory tank replacement that will handle 1.2g's in all directions. (without starving at lower fuel levels) If we get it right, could equal much more sales.

Ditto. I'm waiting for a proven design to surface from Rick's. I've been closely following this thread and the latest custom tanks from Mark Stielow and Rick's / Hector. Once one of these designs proves to solve the starvation problems under high g's down to at least 1/8th of a tank, I'll place my order and gladly pay significantly more for it.

[Vegas69]

Mark has it figured out but you won't get his tank. That's on your coin...

[RSX302]

Finished install...I will try and post some pics this weekend..

Initial test last night seems very promissing running on only 2 gallons. Went around two freeway 270* on-ramps at med speed without issue. Since it was heavy traffic and passenger turbo smoking, I didn't get to full test speed. So far I'm Happy! other then needing to change my turbo..DOH

[Turbo67camaro]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming!

Sorry to hear about the smoking turbo.

[RSX302]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming!

Sorry to hear about the smoking turbo.

Well I was hoping it was only the turbo...Turned out to be much..much more.

Cylinder #2 died on the last Willow Springs outing. Fuel tank testing will need to be postponed a couple months...Sorry everyone...I really feel it's going to work too.

OUCH!!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[CarlC]

That is not good Ron. Detonation?

[RSX302]

That is not good Ron. Detonation?

If it was..I didn't hear it or feel it...

I guess way too much power on a 103 degree day with 91 pump gas.

I will be lowering my compression ratio a little. I also found that it got into the heads a little. Hopefully salvagable?

If not, this may be the time to jump over to a Wegner LS7...:twothumbs

[PhillipM]

If it was..I didn't hear it or feel it...

I guess way too much power on a 103 degree day with 91 pump gas.

I will be lowering my compression ratio a little. I also found that it got into the heads a little. Hopefully salvagable?

If not, this may be the time to jump over to a Wegner LS7...:twothumbs

What compression ratio were you running at? 103 degrees and 91 octane are all we have in Arizona!

[RSX302]

What compression ratio were you running at? 103 degrees and 91 octane are all we have in Arizona!

Cont'd in Power Adder (https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63033)section.

[sqrlnts]

17 year old post revival! Can anyone comment on the current Rick's Tanks stainless design with the ZL1 bucket and corner pickup? This will be going in my 66 Nova max effort GMachine.219378

[badazz81z28]

17 year old post revival! Can anyone comment on the current Rick's Tanks stainless design with the ZL1 bucket and corner pickup? This will be going in my 66 Nova max effort GMachine.219378


I run a Ricks tank with the ZL1 pump and these corner pick-ups. No complaints here…I’ve ran the car at the road course and drag strip.

[CarlC]

........and this is why forums will always be better than Facebook or other similar social media outlets. 17 years, easily found, and still relevant in Pro-Touring.com

Any tank design that utilizes a modern OEM fuel module design will out-perform a similar baffled tank in low liquid level conditions. GM, Ford, Mopar, etc. the design for the modern returnless fuel pump modules are basically the same.

Another advantage is the ZL1 pump has an internal final filter. When used with the VaporWorx controller no external regulators, return lines, or filters are needed. It is highly recommended to NOT run an inline filter with any modern fuel module except the later Ford GT500 and some Mopars (Demon, TRX, etc.)

[JustJohn]

I have a tank from them with the same ZL1 pump and corner pick ups. I haven't sloshed it around much yet but their customer service is top notch.

[chevelletiger]

That's why I bought you product and using a modified 69 csmaro ricks resto tank with a 5th grn camaro ss pump module in my 72 chevell,need to wire and plumb it still hahaha

[shep]

What modifications does the Camaro tank need to fit the chevelle? have a 69 that is getting a panhard bar among other things.

[badazz81z28]

........and this is why forums will always be better than Facebook or other similar social media outlets. 17 years, easily found, and still relevant in Pro-Touring.com

Any tank design that utilizes a modern OEM fuel module design will out-perform a similar baffled tank in low liquid level conditions. GM, Ford, Mopar, etc. the design for the modern returnless fuel pump modules are basically the same.

Another advantage is the ZL1 pump has an internal final filter. When used with the VaporWorx controller no external regulators, return lines, or filters are needed. It is highly recommended to NOT run an inline filter with any modern fuel module except the later Ford GT500 and some Mopars (Demon, TRX, etc.)


Carl, I actually do have inline filter! Should I remove it??

[CarlC]

Carl, I actually do have inline filter! Should I remove it??

Though technically no, there may be a practical reason.

Let's say down the road the fuel system starts acting funky. What comes to mind? The fuel filter. So doing your due diligence the inline filter is replaced thinking it may be the issue. However, the inline filter will be very clean since the in-module fine element filter is the one that has become plugged.

So, not only was there the initial cost of the filter + fittings, now there is the replacement cost of the filter, all of which is not needed. In many cases the cost of a nice billet inline filter and fittings is more expensive than a new complete GM fuel module.

Add in that 10 years from now (brain fade ;-) ), or if someone else is working on the car, the finger gets pointed at the non-problem clean inline filter.

In some cases, inline filters have an internal check valve. This check valve will cause a heat-soak overpressure condition during hot key-off. Had a customer with a super nice black GTO that had this happen away from home with the car not starting due to excessive fuel pressure. While unloading the car from the trailer one of the front fenders was damaged. The installed fuel filter had a check valve. Seems so simple, but it's sometimes the little things that get us.

[badazz81z28]

Hmmm, it would be nice to clean it up, it’s a Russell billet AN filter. It’s only 3” in diameter but it bulky