Help! Detroit Speed Upper And Lower Control Arms Makes the Car Sit On the Tires

[Fastbowtie]

I just completed installing my upper and lower control arms from DSE with my Hotchkis front springs and when I set the car down the inner wheel wells are resting on the tires. Does anybody know what I might have done wrong? DSE is closed on the weekends so I'm kinda stuck. I wanted to get the alignment done today but they close at 5. Am I supposed to use a rubber isolator or something? This doesn't look good.

[rlovell383]

The DSE lower control arms have a one inch drop built into them. The upper arms dont do anything for ride height. If you want it back to where it was, you should need a 1/2 inch spacer or isolator under the coil springs. Remember, to raise the front, you only need to go HALF of the amount due to the leverage effect.

Randy

[Dream68]

are the springs the right ones for the car and engine sbc or bbc? How much drop are the springs. The uppers shouldnt drop the car and the lowers dop it 3/8''? I think, at least thats what i was told.

[Fastbowtie]

The DSE lower control arms have a one inch drop built into them. The upper arms dont do anything for ride height. If you want it back to where it was, you should need a 1/2 inch spacer or isolator under the coil springs. Remember, to raise the front, you only need to go HALF of the amount due to the leverage effect.

Randy

Ok so I just need to get a 1/2" Isolator. Thanks!

[rlovell383]

Glad I could help!

Randy

[Fastbowtie]

Well I spoke with Detroit Speed today. They said the spring pocket is in the stock location. The guy I was talking to on the phone "Dan" said at first that it could be the shims on the cross bar for the camber. I told him I didn't think it could be that because I had no clearance at all. Nobody else has installed these with Hotchkis 2" lowered springs? Anyway he want me to take pictures of it on the ground. I will send them to him today. Anybody else got anything on this for me?:help:

[72novadriver]

What size of front wheel and Backspacing are you running?

[JEFFTATE]

The springs are what would lower the car.
Not the control arms.
Did you change spindles too ??

What are the wheels backspacing and width ??

[Chevy]

do you know the uninstalled length of the springs? How about the spring rate? Wheel and tire size of course. Is the car complete? Is it a big block car?

Paul

[rlovell383]

From the title of your thread I was under the impression you only installed the control arms, and already had the springs in before.

The DSE website clearly states "dropped spring pocket" and I've heard 1 inch is what they are. Ive installed them in other cars as well and their lower arms DO lower the car. Dan at DSE needs to refresh himself on their products. The easy fix is to just install an isolator in the spring pockets to bring the car back to where you want it. Very easy fix...

Randy

[Fastbowtie]

What size of front wheel and Backspacing are you running?

17x8 4.75 BS.

[Fastbowtie]

The springs are what would lower the car.
Not the control arms.
Did you change spindles too ??

What are the wheels backspacing and width ??

This is true expect that I ran all of this stuff for 2 years and had no problem before this. The DSE LCA's have a spring pocket that is below stock. It has to be at least 1/2". The car with the Hotckis springs, stock LCA's, stock spinidels, and 17x8 4.75 BS wheels sat about 1" from the tire.

[Mark Antrim]

I am also running the DSE upper & lowers and Hotchkis springs and have plenty of clearance in my wheel well. If you still have your old springs maybe try to install those with the new control arms and see what that does.

[Fastbowtie]

do you know the uninstalled length of the springs? How about the spring rate? Wheel and tire size of course. Is the car complete? Is it a big block car?

Paul

No the car is a Small Block. 17 x 8 4.75. I do not know the uninstalled length of the springs. The spring rate is is 600 lbs. (Is that what you mean?) Yes the car is complete. I have been driving it for the last 3 years with just the Hotchkis stuff.

[Fastbowtie]

From the title of your thread I was under the impression you only installed the control arms, and already had the springs in before.

The DSE website clearly states "dropped spring pocket" and I've heard 1 inch is what they are. Ive installed them in other cars as well and their lower arms DO lower the car. Dan at DSE needs to refresh himself on their products. The easy fix is to just install an isolator in the spring pockets to bring the car back to where you want it. Very easy fix...

Randy

Here's the deal I spoke with Kyle at DSE and basicly he's telling me I need to replace the springs. I was going to add spacers to make up the difference but Stacy said that was a bad idea. So I am now trying to decide on wheather I should sell the Hotchkis springs and buy the DSE springs or talk to Hotchkis again and see about using the big block springs. Hotchkis said the BB spring was 3/4" taller. I asked Kyle about the spring rates for the DSE's and he says there 470 lbs. The Hotchkis springs are rated at 600 lbs. I'm wondering how much of a difference this is going to make with my set up. I am running the 1 1/8" Hotchkis bar and a set of KYB shocks. I already have a problem with understeer.

[Fastbowtie]

I am also running the DSE upper & lowers and Hotchkis springs and have plenty of clearance in my wheel well. If you still have your old springs maybe try to install those with the new control arms and see what that does.

Mark these are my old springs. I have'nt had the stock worn out springs for over 3 years. What tire size and BS are you running? Is yours a SBC or BBC?

[Fastbowtie]

I need to get back to this. https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/P1010042-1.jpghttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/P1010040-2.jpghttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/P1010028-1.jpg

[rlovell383]

Not to seem argumentative, but did you ask them WHY adding a spring seat spacer was a bad idea? I cant think of one downside to this solution. I'm confused. I mean I'm sure they would love to sell you some more springs.....

If you do end up replacing springs, I would highly recommend using speedway TRU coils, and their hidden adjustable coil adjusters. Its by far the best way to adjust ride height short of coilovers.

PS: Thats a gorgeous 68 you have there.

Randy

[Fastbowtie]

Not to seem argumentative, but did you ask them WHY adding a spring seat spacer was a bad idea? I cant think of one downside to this solution. I'm confused. I mean I'm sure they would love to sell you some more springs.....

If you do end up replacing springs, I would highly recommend using speedway TRU coils, and their hidden adjustable coil adjusters. Its by far the best way to adjust ride height short of coilovers.

PS: Thats a gorgeous 68 you have there.

Randy

Thanks Randy. I didn't ask why it would be bad, but I didn't like the idea myself replacing the steel with polly or aluminum. I bit the bullet and I am going to buy a set of their springs. I would love to have the coilovers but at this point the car is together and I would have to take off the lower control arm and send them back so I could get the LCA for coilovers.

[vp23271]

I bit the bullet and I am going to buy a set of their springs.

So who's spring did you go with? Hotchkis or DSE?

If you had Hotchkis control arms, I think you would be better off with Hotchkis springs.

Since you have DSE control arms, I would say DSE springs are a better choice.

Mixing and matching parts sometimes is a necessary evil. But if you have a company that packages it all together, some of the guess work has already been done for you. Less headache is always good lol!

My guess from reading your post is that the Hotchkis springs are old and you just replaced the control arms hoping the springs would be compatible. Hey it was worth a shot.

Either way post up some after photos when you get it back on the ground.

[Fastbowtie]

So who's spring did you go with? Hotchkis or DSE?

If you had Hotchkis control arms, I think you would be better off with Hotchkis springs.

Since you have DSE control arms, I would say DSE springs are a better choice.

Mixing and matching parts sometimes is a necessary evil. But if you have a company that packages it all together, some of the guess work has already been done for you. Less headache is always good lol!

My guess from reading your post is that the Hotchkis springs are old and you just replaced the control arms hoping the springs would be compatible. Hey it was worth a shot.

Either way post up some after photos when you get it back on the ground.

Rick the springs are from 2006 if that's old. Yes I did go with DSE. I will post pics when it's all back together.

[rlovell383]

Good luck with the project

Randy

[Mark Antrim]

My rims are 17x8 cant remember the backspace right now. I'm running a small block and is installed in my pt garage pics if you want to compare heights.

[Fastbowtie]

DSE just sent me stock height springs for a 2" drop. I don't really understand why Kyle would tell them to order that. The set I was running before were 2" drop Hotchkis with stock LCA's which put me right at the level I wanted. What I can't understand is why would Stock height DSE springs be the right height with the DSE LCA's. Is anybody running this set up for the 68 camaro? The springs measure 16" 470 lbs. The Hotchkis springs I was running are 12.25" 600 lbs and I have a set of super stock springs that measure 15.5" 250 lbs.

[trex1270]

I just went through this myself....I run the small block hotchkis springs, ordered the upper and lower control arms from DSE and it was on the tires. So, I am thinking. Yep 2" drop springs + 1" drop pocket=3'" total drop. I followed Frank at prodigy's advice and pit a 1/2" coil isolator under the spring...if you did not know the first gen camaro had a spring isolator under it from factory(atleast mine did when I restored it the first time). The car sits perfect now. I have no problem what so ever! The islotors cost about 15 bucks. It is kinda pain in the rear end to cut down, but razor blade and bench grinder, it took me about 45 minutes to get them both right...messy though...

[trex1270]

not bad stance

[Fastbowtie]

I just went through this myself....I run the small block hotchkis springs, ordered the upper and lower control arms from DSE and it was on the tires. So, I am thinking. Yep 2" drop springs + 1" drop pocket=3'" total drop. I followed Frank at prodigy's advice and pit a 1/2" coil isolator under the spring...if you did not know the first gen camaro had a spring isolator under it from factory(atleast mine did when I restored it the first time). The car sits perfect now. I have no problem what so ever! The islotors cost about 15 bucks. It is kinda pain in the rear end to cut down, but razor blade and bench grinder, it took me about 45 minutes to get them both right...messy though...

Trex I did mention that to DSE and they were really against doing it. I would be done by now if I had done it that way. :doh:

Nice car by the way.

[rlovell383]

Still not too late to return the DSE springs and keep your hotchkiss ones. It still may not sit where you want it when you are done...
Save you some money and I think a 600LB spring would be better anyway. Theres a link to the spacers.

http://scandc.com/spcsprings.htm

Randy

[Fastbowtie]

OK OK, I was wrong I owe Kyle, Stacy, and Dan and appolgy for doubting them. The car is now sitting correct. The springs look like their dropping already after a quick ride with my 2 buddies and myself. I will post pics after the washing and the quick drive before I go to alignment shop. Thanks again for everybodys help!


I've only take a couple of hard turns with it but it seems to be sticking quite well and no bump steer (weird).:thumbsup:
:hail:

[rlovell383]

Great! Glad it worked out for you. Lets see a pic! :yeah:

Randy

[Fastbowtie]

OK, I expect it to drop more. I have about 100 miles on them right now.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/P1010002-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/P1010009-1.jpg

Before
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/P1010042-1.jpg

After
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/P1010010-1.jpg

[NvrDun71]

Looks good, what size tire are you running up front?

[Fastbowtie]

Looks good, what size tire are you running up front?


17x8 4.75 BS 245 45 R17

[Chevy]

That is a stunning '68, congrats on getting it back together!
Paul

[rlovell383]

It looks fantastic. Enjoy it!

Randy

[Fastbowtie]

Thanks Guys!